East Barnet Joint Stock - a workbench

[Chas Levin]

In the course of researching the GNR livery I picked up a copy of this very nice little book, the GNR volume of 'Our Home Railways':

 

The centre spread reproduces the picture from the front acorss two pages and it appears to show the chassis lining with the vermilion and black reversed:

 

Here's a closer view of the front - it's the same way round throughout this picture:

All the other sources I've seen - either descriptions or pictures - have the vermilion line inside a black edging, effectively separating the black and the chocolate colours: is this a mistake, artistic license or did the order of those two colours vary on some locos?

Edited May 4, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Jon4470]

4 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

In the course of researching the GNR livery I picked up a copy of this very nice little book, the GNR volume of 'Our Home Railways':

 

 

The centre spread reproduces the picture from the front acorss two pages and it appears to show the chassis lining with the vermilion and black reversed:

 

 

Here's a closer view of the front - it's the same way round throughout this picture:

 

All the other sources I've seen - either descriptions or pictures - have the vermilion line inside a black edging, effectively separating the black and the chocolate colours: is this a mistake, artistic license or did the order of those two colours vary on some locos?

 

Hi Chas

i’m not an expert on the GNR at all,  but I do have the Nigel Digby articles that were issued with BRM. He quotes a specific drawing (44P) of an 0-6-0 from around 1900 as his source. The frames are brown edged black with the vermillion line between the black and the brown ( so in line with your previous sources).

You could try asking the Great Northern Railway Society- they may be able to confirm which is correct.

 

Jon

 

 

[Chas Levin]

1 hour ago, Jon4470 said:

 

Hi Chas

i’m not an expert on the GNR at all,  but I do have the Nigel Digby articles that were issued with BRM. He quotes a specific drawing (44P) of an 0-6-0 from around 1900 as his source. The frames are brown edged black with the vermillion line between the black and the brown ( so in line with your previous sources).

You could try asking the Great Northern Railway Society- they may be able to confirm which is correct.

 

Jon

 

 

Thanks Jon - that's one of the sources I have too! Those articles have been brought together and published in book form and I have the LNER and constituents volume (https://www.jarrold.co.uk/departments/books/transport-books/trains-and-railways-general-interest-books/the-liveries-of-the-pre$9grouping-railways-volume-two-paperback-9781911038450) where he does indeed say that; it's also what's given in E. F. Carter's book, though he does also describe Atlantic 990 Henry Oakley as having chocolate frames lined in red, without mentioning the black edging... but nowhere does it mention frames being edged in red with a black line inside the red.

Well, I guess this must be a case of artistic license...

I'm reading my way through your Bilton Junction thread this weekend - the rivets on those hoppers look excellent: I must get some and try them!

[Chas Levin]

Progress today on the C2's cab roof: the first primer coat showed up some gaps and holes, my own fault because while I spent a lot of time going over the main body for blemishes, I hadn't looked as closely at the roof! However, they're filled now, using a neat trick explained to me by David of this parish (thank you Sir), which consists of mixing superfine Milliput with water to produce a fairly thick paste, which can then be applied with a small paintbrush and the surplus wiped away with a cotton bud:

 

 

An excellent technique - without the additional workability from water, it's very difficult to work Milliput into such fine gaps.

 

Priming of the main body had to be halted because of a miscalculation over the missing boiler band, the one that lies under the steam dome and is only seen each side of it. There was one band too few in the kit and I'd intended making up one from insulating tape just prior to priming, but I found it impossible to duplicate the appearance of the other bands - which are provided in the kit as half-etch brass strip - using tape. Thinking about it after trying unsuccessfully, I decided that I hadn't thought about it enough before trying, because I don't think you can convincingly duplicate the look of etched bands using tape! It's one thing to do all the bands using tape, but mixed media on this job is a non-starter (for me, at any rate) so I'm going to try using the Mainly Trains etch that has various widths of 5 thou strip (the Hobby Holidays copper strip is too narrow). The only problem with that is that I can't see for the moment where I put that etch!!

[Daddyman]

On 08/05/2021 at 21:31, Chas Levin said:

An excellent technique - without the additional workability from water, it's very difficult to work Milliput into such fine gaps.

But as I said to you, Chas, there may be a better way: I came across something on a thread on here which mentioned a brush-on liquid-y filler - but I haven't been able to find it again. I have a feeling it was by Tamiya. A passerby on this thread may know what I'm talking about. 

 

On 08/05/2021 at 21:31, Chas Levin said:

impossible to duplicate the appearance of the other bands

I'd say the problem is with the other bands, not this one: as you know, most of the grown-ups don't recommend we use etched boiler bands, and I certainly always bin them. You'll see that Ian Rathbone only uses transfers, and given that your bands will be coloured anyway, is that the way to go? I imagine you'll be reluctant to remove your original bands though... 

[chris p bacon]

On 08/05/2021 at 18:38, Jon4470 said:

He quotes a specific drawing (44P) of an 0-6-0 from around 1900 as his source. The frames are brown edged black with the vermillion line between the black and the brown

 

I have a copy of that drawing and work from it. 

 

I can send a copy of it to your email address Chas ( I'm GNRS Membership) if any help.

Edited May 10, 2021 by chris p bacon

[Chas Levin]

8 hours ago, Daddyman said:

But as I said to you, Chas, there may be a better way: I came across something on a thread on here which mentioned a brush-on liquid-y filler - but I haven't been able to find it again. I have a feeling it was by Tamiya. A passerby on this thread may know what I'm talking about.

Yes, I have that info (about the brush-on stuff) saved in my Short Term Memory in case I find it, but I do like Milliput because it's epoxy and it's really permanent, so I like using it: I like things that stay put. I'll look out for the other stuff though...

8 hours ago, Daddyman said:

I'd say the problem is with the other bands, not this one: as you know, most of the grown-ups don't recommend we use etched boiler bands, and I certainly always bin them. You'll see that Ian Rathbone only uses transfers, and given that your bands will be coloured anyway, is that the way to go? I imagine you'll be reluctant to remove your original bands though... 

Yes, quite: in the early stages of this build I intended building entirely by the instructions so I powered ahead and used the bands, partly just to see whether I could get them on and looking good... and I have to say that I do like the look of them, even though I know they're over-scale. And you're right: they're not coming off now.

I finally found the Mainly Trains etch last night (I'd forgotten that it's a long, thin rectangle shape and had been looking for a square one) and added the two pieces this morning before work. Lots of cleaning up to do, but they'll look way better than the tape did, in the context of my other giant-thickness bands!! One advantage of their thickness is that they'll be slightly easier to line than tape would have been, though as you say, Ian R uses transfers: there's always next time...

[Chas Levin]

8 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

I have a copy of that drawing and work from it. 

 

I can send a copy of it to your email address Chas ( I'm GNRS Membership) if any help.

Thanks very much Dave - I'd be very interested to see that drawing please, if you don't mind sending it. I had a quick look online after reading about Painting Drawings (which I hadn't previously known were produced) but I haven't been able to find any yet and I'm fascinated to see what they looked like and what info they actually contained.

It makes perfect sense of course that they produced diagrams for liveries, especially where there were complicated colour schemes like the GNR one.

From memory I think you're right that my email address should be listed as a contact method by the GNRS but if it isn't please PM me through here... Quite excited now

[teaky]

I made a note of the filler.

 

Games Workshop, Citadel Paints, Liquid Green Stuff.

 

There is also  Vallejo 70.400 or 70.401 Liquid Filler.

 

[chris p bacon]

14 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

From memory I think you're right that my email address should be listed as a contact method by the GNRS but if it isn't please PM me through here

 

I've 'wetransfered' it to the address I have on file. 

[Chas Levin]

44 minutes ago, teaky said:

I made a note of the filler.

 

Games Workshop, Citadel Paints, Liquid Green Stuff.

 

There is also  Vallejo 70.400 or 70.401 Liquid Filler.

Thanks very much Teaky, most helpful - I shall investigate and track some down...

 

[Chas Levin]

Liquid Green Stuff ordered (£5.50 inc P&P from Ebay) so we'll see what it's like. I hesitated over the Vallejo though, as it's described as acrylic resin and I have more faith in the watered down Milliput, which is epoxy and therefore - I believe - harder setting and more permanent. I couldn't find out what the Liquid Green stuff is made of though, so I took a chance...

[teaky]

Liquid Green Stuff is epoxy.  I have trawled through a few reviews this morning.  Opinion appears to be divided if not polarised.

 

One of the more interesting and informative reviews: https://tangibleday.com/12-useful-gap-fillers-for-miniatures-review-and-tips/

The reviewer seems to provide a balanced view of the pros and cons of each product, so much so that I began to wonder if the list was actually in order of preference as it first seemed.  I decided it was but only on the basis that the last few products seemed a little more general purpose and less useful as model fillers.

 

Even though you have purchased something, it might still be worth reading some of the reviews for the usage tips.

 

[Chas Levin]

2 hours ago, teaky said:

Liquid Green Stuff is epoxy.  I have trawled through a few reviews this morning.  Opinion appears to be divided if not polarised.

 

One of the more interesting and informative reviews: https://tangibleday.com/12-useful-gap-fillers-for-miniatures-review-and-tips/

The reviewer seems to provide a balanced view of the pros and cons of each product, so much so that I began to wonder if the list was actually in order of preference as it first seemed.  I decided it was but only on the basis that the last few products seemed a little more general purpose and less useful as model fillers.

 

Even though you have purchased something, it might still be worth reading some of the reviews for the usage tips.

 

Hello Rob, many thanks - the link looks like a very interesting and useful page, I'll have a proper read of it this evening.

 

Very pleased to hear that LGS is epoxy, but I shan't mind if the conclusion is that other ones are better suited to this purpose as I'm always interested in trying things I haven't tried before. Sometimes, I've found something unsuited to the job in hand but ideal for something else entirely, so it's never wasted time.

 

I have some delicate filling to do now, around the C2's dome apron where I've interpolated the two end pieces of the boiler band that sits under it, so I shall wait until the LGS arrives and see if that's more suited than watered down Milliput, but if not, it'll be the Milliput again...

 

One thing puzzles me though: if LGS is epoxy, how is it prevented from solidifying in the jar?

[teaky]

2 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Hello Rob, many thanks - the link looks like a very interesting and useful page, I'll have a proper read of it this evening.

You're welcome, Chas.  It's selfish really.  I'm interested in the results of your trial. 

 

Very pleased to hear that LGS is epoxy, but I shan't mind if the conclusion is that other ones are better suited to this purpose as I'm always interested in trying things I haven't tried before. Sometimes, I've found something unsuited to the job in hand but ideal for something else entirely, so it's never wasted time.

It is top of the list on that link so he rates it.

 

I have some delicate filling to do now, around the C2's dome apron where I've interpolated the two end pieces of the boiler band that sits under it, so I shall wait until the LGS arrives and see if that's more suited than watered down Milliput, but if not, it'll be the Milliput again...

 

One thing puzzles me though: if LGS is epoxy, how is it prevented from solidifying in the jar?

Good question.  It was a statement in that link I was quoting.  None of the other reviewers mentioned the type of each filler.  He describes it thus "Liquid Green Stuff has a clay-like viscosity and therefore has fairly good bridging capacity.  However, note that although Liquid Green Stuff isn’t a “liquid”, but leans closer to being a crumbly-paste that binds and forms together when there is water moisture present.  Before it has hardened, you can shape Liquid Green Stuff to follow a surface contour.  Adding a bit of water thins out the green filler and aids in smoothing.".

 

[Chas Levin]

14 hours ago, teaky said:

One of the more interesting and informative reviews: https://tangibleday.com/12-useful-gap-fillers-for-miniatures-review-and-tips/

The reviewer seems to provide a balanced view of the pros and cons of each product, so much so that I began to wonder if the list was actually in order of preference as it first seemed.  I decided it was but only on the basis that the last few products seemed a little more general purpose and less useful as model fillers.

Thanks again for the link Rob; just read through it and some points I found interesting are:

 

1. The reviewer notes that while Liquid Green is great for plastics and resin, he found its adhesive properties on metal less strong. So perhaps best kept for plastics work...? I'll repot back once I have some and have tried it on various things too...

2. Smoothing of LGS using water - which also triggers the curing process - does sound very convenient though: put it on 'dry' from the pot, then simultaneously smooth / scuplt / mould / cure with water.

3. With the Vallejo, he notes that even fully hardened putty will dissolve in contact with water, definitely something to beware of, given the frequent washing of models in the course of building... but, I wonder whether that property could be put to creative use, creating temporary moulds, or temporarily filling voids or gaps that are afterwards emptied?

4. He's something of a fan of the Squadron Gray, but makes no mention of the problem both David and I have found, that it sets extremely quickly, often almost too fast to allow proper positioning: I wonder if he has a way of avoiding that?

5. Interestingly, he mentions the use of water to thin epoxy in the review of Apoxie, but doesn't mention having tried it in the preceding review of Milliput.

6. Interesting too that he includes as a filler the use of scrap plastic sprue, dissolved in liquid poly cement: a vote there for recycling and DIY!

7. And as for adding baking or talcum powder to cyano: well, that's a new one for me, but one I shall try!

 

Might have to give the Tamiya putty a try too - everything else of theirs I've tried before has been absolutely excellent, so I've no reason to suppose this would be any different. Exciting stuff - these things are like new gadgets, full of possibilities...

Edited May 12, 2021 by Chas Levin

[Chas Levin]

Today's project is a accessory for the Ian Rathbone lining jig:

 

I've been working on a way of mounting a motor and gearbox to allow wheel lining, but in the middle of messing about with oddly shaped pieces of wood and loco frame mock-ups, it suddenly dawned on me that the easiest way would be to add a removable motor mounting to the lining jig I've just built!

I wanted to be able to use different drive units, partly to use whatever I had to hand at different times and partly as a way of bench-testing different gearboxes, so I first made a brass band to fit round a motor and be bolted to the end of one of the thick brass pieces that form part of the lining jig - very simple, a strip of brass bent to a circle, with a lateral twist:

 

Then, bolts: one to hold it tight round the motor housing and one to secure it to the brass bracket:

 

Here's the unit mounted to the jig:

 

And here is how it will be used - the bow pen compass is just posed for illustration and the wheel won't be revolving at the sort of speed that blurs when it's in use:

 

I've tried various motor and gearbox combos and so far the the Portescap's given the smoothest slow speed performance - absolutely critical for this purpose of course. The height of the wheel can be adjusted by loosening the final drive gear's grub screw and moving the axle up or down - there's nothing mounted on the other end of the axle and gravity does the rest.

 

There's still some work to do: the brass strap holds the unit in place very well, but it's not as solidly immobile as it needs to be so I'm going to add a bracket, parallel to the jig's main surface, pressing down on the part of the gearbox that rests on the jig. My first attempt wasn't entirely successful, but you get the idea:

 

I found however that tightening the wood screw causes the brass plate to angle down at the screw end, lifting at the gearbox end: what needs to happen is that the brass plate remains parallel to the jig surface and exerts a downward force on the gearbox. Perhaps a square rubber or foam pad, with the screw going through it, that supports the floating end of the brass plate...?

 

I also tried out the Liquid Green Stuff today, putting a test patch onto a piece of plastic and some onto a piece of scrap brass; once it's fully gone off I'll see how it compares to Milliput for adhesion and durability. One thing so far is that it takes a lot longer to set hard than Milliput...

Edited May 4, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Jon4470]

34 minutes ago, Chas Levin said:

Today's project is a accessory for the Ian Rathbone lining jig:

 

 

I've been working on a way of mounting a motor and gearbox to allow wheel lining, but in the middle of messing about with oddly shaped pieces of wood and loco frame mock-ups, it suddenly dawned on me that the easiest way would be to add a removable motor mounting to the lining jig I've just built!

I wanted to be able to use different drive units, partly to use whatever I had to hand at different times and partly as a way of bench-testing different gearboxes, so I first made a brass band to fit round a motor and be bolted to the end of one of the thick brass pieces that form part of the lining jig - very simple, a strip of brass bent to a circle, with a lateral twist:

 

 

Then, bolts: one to hold it tight round the motor housing and one to secure it to the brass bracket:

 

 

Here's the unit mounted to the jig:

 

 

 

And here is how it will be used - the bow pen compass is just posed for illustration and the wheel won't be revolving at the sort of speed that blurs when it's in use:

 

 

I've tried various motor and gearbox combos and so far the the Portescap's given the smoothest slow speed performance - absolutely critical for this purpose of course. The height of the wheel can be adjusted by lossening the final drive gear's grub screw and moving the axle up or down - there's nothing mounted on the other end of the axle and gravity does the rest.

 

There's still some work to do: the brass strap holds the unit in place very well, but it's not as solidly immobile as it needs to be so I'm going to add a bracket, parallel to the jig's main surface, pressing down on the part of the gearbox that rests on the jig. My first attempt wasn't entirely successful, but you get the idea:

 

 

 

Tightening the wood screw causes the brass plate to angle down at the screw end, lifting at the gearbox end: what needs to happen is that the brass plate remains parallel to the jig surface and exerts a downward force on the gearbox. Perhaps a square rubber or foam pad, with the screw going through it, that supports the floating end of the brass plate...?

 

Ingenious........if a tad expensive using a Portescap

 

Just wondering about the second bracket.  Instead of bearing on the gearbox would it be better if you treated it like a piece of a loco mainframe. Drill an axle hole and thread the axle through the gearbox, then the bracket and onto the wheel. Would that stop the movement that you are getting?

 

Jon

[Chas Levin]

39 minutes ago, Jon4470 said:

 

Ingenious........if a tad expensive using a Portescap

 

Just wondering about the second bracket.  Instead of bearing on the gearbox would it be better if you treated it like a piece of a loco mainframe. Drill an axle hole and thread the axle through the gearbox, then the bracket and onto the wheel. Would that stop the movement that you are getting?

 

Jon

Brilliant! Thank you Jon, your bracket / loco frame suggestion may be exactly what's needed. Too late to try it tonight but I'll have a look at doing that tomorrow. Getting some sort of purchase on the upper face of the gearbox is what's been missing (I'd even thought about a thin layer of foam rubber between the bracket and the gearbox side to give some grip) but having the axle also going through the bracket sounds very promising...

 

As to the Portescap, the idea was to be able to use a variety of motors, making up different sized round brackets (or "homemade brass jubilee clips"?) as needed, but having tried a Mitsumi and a Mashima, neither quite matched for smoothness at the slowest speed. Bear in mind though that the motor isn't permanently wedded to the jig or to this purpose, it's just that I had this one to hand, a recent Ebay purchase that arrived semi seized but which ran beautifully after a clean and lube, so it made sense to try it.

I also felt that going to this amount of trouble, it was worth doing it the best way I could and given that my lining skills are very much a work in progress, I need all the help I can get in terms of a really slow, steady movement of the wheel: it's one thing correcting lining blobs caused by my poor workmanship, quite another dealing with wavy lines caused by a minutely cogging motor, which was the case with the Mitsumi at very slow speed: almost imperceptible and it probably would have been absorbed by the drive train if the motor were in use in a loco, but in this setting I thought it spelled trouble...

I have a small stock of motors for future builds and I thought this might also be a way to keep them in good condition, giving them a little run from time to time - otherwise, they may sit unused in a drawer for years...

Edited May 15, 2021 by Chas Levin

[jwealleans]

I cut a slot 1/8" wide into the top of my wagon lettering/lining holder (design from John Hayes The 4mm Coal Wagon) and I just rotate the horizontal wheel (on its axle) with my finger while holding the Bob Moore pen in position.

[Chas Levin]

1 hour ago, jwealleans said:

I cut a slot 1/8" wide into the top of my wagon lettering/lining holder (design from John Hayes The 4mm Coal Wagon) and I just rotate the horizontal wheel (on its axle) with my finger while holding the Bob Moore pen in position.

Hello Jonathan, I was going to stick with hand-powered but decided that if I could leave the movement of the wheel to a motor, I could use 95% of my concentration on keeping the pen in the right place, at the right angle and so forth.

Running a pen on a flat coach side along a ruler edge only involves one movement - the pen, whereas lining a wheel while rotating it I think involves two movements - rotating the wheel and holding the pen in the right place. I know that may sound counter-intuitive because the pen stays almost stationery, but keeping it stationery - and in particular at the right angle - I think involves as much mental effort and motor skill as does moving it in a straight line.

 

Are you able to maintain a steady and uniform speed rotating the wheel by hand? Is that easier to do because you're more experienced at the actual lining?

 

Also, it's fun just trying to see if I can get this gadget to work . I didn't get as much done today as I'd hoped (the preparation and consumption of - and recovery from - Sunday Lunch invariably reduces the time available for other activities) but Jon's suggestion of incorporating an axle hole in the gearbox's securing plate looks like it's going to work very well...

Edited May 16, 2021 by Chas Levin

[Chas Levin]

Stability has been achieved for the Lining Stand Motorised Wheel Accessory:

 

 

And anyone who's built the Jidenco / Falcon GNR 5 Ton Fish Van will recognise the scrap etch I used!

Thanks again to Jon for the suggestion of incorporating the axle into the holding plate:

 

 

Here's a shot to show the arrangement underneath the holding plate:

 

 

And these are the components that go into the whole thing:

 

 

I realise this is a considerably over-engineered solution to a relatively minor problem, but I've had great fun making it and it works very well, so I'm very pleased with it .

Next time I come to line some wheels I'll try a different motor / gearbox combo but for now, I can't fault the performance at the slowest speeds and it removes one significant variable (my ability to turn a wheel slowly and steadily by hand) from the equation...

 

Meanwhile, in other news, I've tried out the Liquid Green Stuff and can report on it. It's very easy to use - no mixing - and the consistency is smooth and creamy, like guacmole but with no lumps. However, it definitely does not set as hard as Milliput (I could still make an impression in it with a fingernail over twenty-four hours after applying it) and as the review linked by Teaky notes, its adherance to brass is not great.

The other thing I wanted to test was how it stood up to Attack of The Fibreglass Brush. If it's to be used on bare brass, prior to final cleaning up in advance of painting, then it would need to withstand washing (with various substances) and upbraiding with a fibreglass brush... which I'm afraid it failed to do.

I applied a patch to a plastic lid, right-hand side as it comes, straight out of the tub, left-hand side smoothed with a little water (to see how that affects the finish and durability) and as you can see in the photo below, the fibreglass brushes went right through it and down to the plastic with only minimal force, sloughing it off as a fine green powder almost straight away:

 

 

The left-hand side was done using the usual 4mm fibreglass brush, the right-hand side using the retractable 2mm type which has harder fibres, but you can see that both types were not heavily taxed. Liquid Green clearly has it's uses and I'll be using it on plastic models in the future, but I'm not sure it's the right thing for metal...

 

Aside from the question of durability, there's also that of adhesion: here's a picture of it on brass (which had been cleaned and roughened first), where only very slight pressure with a small screwdriver blade dislodged it very easily:

 

 

In contrast, here is my attempt to make an impression on Milliput using the fibreglass brushes, with pretty much zero result:

 

 

The right-hand side is untouched, the left-hand side was subjected to very determined efforts with both types of brush for a good ten minutes: nothing! Well, if you zoom in, you can see a couple of areas where I inflicted some tiny scratches using the harder 2mm brush but overall, Milliput is clearly very, very hard indeed.

Very reassuring: I attacked this test piece far more vigorously than I would an actual model, so I'm quite confident that it'll withstand normal pre-painting preparation.

Next job will be final filling around the dome base, now that the missing boiler band's been added, though there's no hurry as the weather's hardly conducive to spraying paint at the moment, is it?

[Chas Levin]

Missing boiler band now in place and it was back to my (now) beloved watered down Milliput for the dome-boiler transition:

 

It's very difficult to judge how a join like this will look under primer and I did think it would still need some work, but in fact it looks very good indeed primed and won't need further filling or filing, which just shows how the different colours of the brass and the filler deceive the eye as to how smooth the transtion between the two surfaces actually is.

 

I'm not posting any photos of the body under primer though, as it has come down with a case of Orange Peel Syndrome! It was actually my second attempt with the primer - the first was far worse and also had gritty areas. Aside from the first loco I built last year - the DJH J9/10, everything else I've used aerosol primer on has essentially been a flat sided box (wagons, vans, coaches), a shape with which I have no trouble. I'm beginning to think that I must have been somehow lucky with that first loco, because this one's proving rather more difficult.

 

Moving around to cover difficult areas such as boiler fittings, tank fronts etc results in paint landing on unintended areas, either already covered - resulting in excess layers and obscured detail - or areas yet to be covered, resulting in patchy, grainy or gritty cover, especially if the paint's been deflected from nearby surfaces. I know its a common problem and what's needed is practice... Very frustrating though, given how easy flat surfaces are: the cab roof's turned out beautifully:

Edited May 4, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Daddyman]

Are you trying to do the whole thing at once, Chas? With aerosols I always do a side at a time, leave for 30 mins or an hour, then do another side. That way, when paint lands on paint, the latter is already set. This may even be something Ian Rathbone recommends - I can't remember. 

 

Whose aerosol primer are you using? If Halford's Upol Acid-8, it's very hard to use as it comes out at such high pressure - you either get grit from being too timid, or flooding from letting it do its thing. Grittiness isn't such an issue as you have your 1-inch brush get-out-of-jail-free card, but flooding is hard to do anything about. 

 

I hate to mention the A-word... 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Daddyman

[Chas Levin]

6 hours ago, Daddyman said:

Are you trying to do the whole thing at once, Chas? With aerosols I always do a side at a time, leave for 30 mins or an hour, then do another side. That way, when paint lands on paint, the latter is already set. This may even be something Ian Rathbone recommends - I can't remember. 

 

Whose aerosol primer are you using? If Halford's Upol Acid-8, it's very hard to use as it comes out at such high pressure - you either get grit from being too timid, or flooding from letting it do its thing. Grittiness isn't such an issue as you have your 1-inch brush get-out-of-jail-free card, but flooding is hard to do anything about. 

 

I hate to mention the A-word... 

Thanks David and yes, I had been trying to do the whole thing (because that's always worked fine for me in the past) but  realised that, for whatever reasons, that's problematic here. I may try partial masking as well as multiple spraying: things like the vac pipe and lamp irons are receving way too much paint as I try to cover the smokebox door, for instance.

 

I'll get there - I've been practising on various pieces of material destined for the recycling, suitably modified to resemble loco-like shapes (it's amazing what you can do with an old loo roll, an empty biro or two and some imagination).

 

Another factor might be relevant: I used the standard Halford's Etch Primer (I've not tried the Upol version) for all the early things I built but then read a recommendation on a forum thread by someone who knew their stuff that Tetrosyl was much better. I tried it and it does give a slightly smoother finish so I used it on the next few kits... which were of course straight-sided boxes again (I can't remember which type I used on the J9/10). One significant difference beween the two aerosols is that while the Halfords emerges through the usual circular hole in the nozzle, the Tetrosyl has a slot-shaped hole and emerges in a sort of vertical fan shape. The original poster who recommended it mentioned that not everyone gets on well with that letter-box spray pattern and though I've never had problems before, I wonder whether that's affecting things?

 

It also occurs to me that different brands and mixes may dry at different rates - I wonder whether the Tetrosyl dries faster - or slower? - than Halfords? I'll try both in my practising and see whether I can isolate any differences.

 

Meanwhile, to make up for the lack of model photos, here's a pic of a beautiful new mug, from the Model Railway Club (of 2mm Copenhagen Fields fame):

 

 

So pleased with this - it's a good size (small mugs are not my thing!), made of good quality china and the design is taken from remains of such mugs found on the site of the former Kings Cross staff food facility (known from around 1880 as the "King's + Goods Station REfreshment Club") during recent archeological excavations.

(Usual disclaimer, no connections with MRC; I was so pleased I had to buy two - one to use and one to stash in the loft in case I get so excited I break this one!).