East Barnet Joint Stock - a workbench

[Daddyman]

4 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

things like the vac pipe and lamp irons are receving way too much paint as I try to cover the smokebox door, for instance.

It's years since I've used aerosol etch, but do you need to cover things? With airbrushed PP at least, as Ian Rathbone says, you only need a coating, not coverage. Elevating your spray angle will help too, as it will move the nozzle the same distance from the s.box door as from the l.irons / vac. pipe.  

[Chas Levin]

16 minutes ago, Daddyman said:

It's years since I've used aerosol etch, but do you need to cover things? With airbrushed PP at least, as Ian Rathbone says, you only need a coating, not coverage. Elevating your spray angle will help too, as it will move the nozzle the same distance from the s.box door as from the l.irons / vac. pipe.  

Yes, I think you're right; I tend to over-egg the pudding, moving on from there to gild the lily .

It's frustrating though, to be able to get a beautifully smooth, even and infinitesimally thin coat on flat surfaces but be defeated by domes, chimneys and the angles between boilers and side-tanks! Other people manage it though, so it's clearly possible.

Things aren't helped of course by the weather: I leapt to take advantage of the one dry, warm day we had this week but it doesn't look like there will be another for about a week or so; no problem - I shall make a start on lining the wheels.

 

I think I've found a way to mount the bogie wheels on my motorised lining gizmo, by using Alan Gibson 1/8" to 2mm reducing sleeves on a 2mm axle, to enable it to run in the gearbox .

[Daddyman]

1 hour ago, Chas Levin said:

Yes, I think you're right; I tend to over-egg the pudding, moving on from there to gild the lily .

It's frustrating though, to be able to get a beautifully smooth, even and infinitesimally thin coat on flat surfaces but be defeated by domes, chimneys and the angles between boilers and side-tanks! Other people manage it though, so it's clearly possible.

Things aren't helped of course by the weather: I leapt to take advantage of the one dry, warm day we had this week but it doesn't look like there will be another for about a week or so; no problem - I shall make a start on lining the wheels.

 

I think I've found a way to mount the bogie wheels on my motorised lining gizmo, by using Alan Gibson 1/8" to 2mm reducing sleeves on a 2mm axle, to enable it to run in the gearbox .

I've never set much store by this weather stuff, and don't understand why people mention it. But then I always spray indoors - is that what makes the difference? I was priming today while a storm raged outside, for example... 

 

One other thing springs to mind: how are you spraying? I never make several passes at once with aerosols, but one pass at a time - start the spray off the model, move it over the side to be done, then let off the spray. Repeat a couple of passes and then that's enough for one session. Come back to it in 30-60 mins.   

[Jol Wilkinson]

Chas,

if you have an airbrush then PPP etch primer is an option. I have only used the two pack grey version but there is no reason why the single pack wouldn't work as well as the Halfords and other aerosol primers. The airbrush gives more finer control and I find a few light passes give good coverage without obscuring detail.

[Chas Levin]

15 hours ago, Daddyman said:

I've never set much store by this weather stuff, and don't understand why people mention it. But then I always spray indoors - is that what makes the difference? I was priming today while a storm raged outside, for example... 

 

One other thing springs to mind: how are you spraying? I never make several passes at once with aerosols, but one pass at a time - start the spray off the model, move it over the side to be done, then let off the spray. Repeat a couple of passes and then that's enough for one session. Come back to it in 30-60 mins.   

I'm half indoors, half out - I spray in a far from wind-tight rickety old garage... I've always taken the weather into account because of having read in various places - including Ian's book - about high humidity and low temperatures causing problems but yes, if you're actually indoors (i.e. inside your house) then those issues would recede greatly I'd assume. It's another area - a bit like motorising the task of wheel lining - where I wanted to remove as many potential hazards as possible to try and maximise the chances of success; perhaps I'm erring on the side of caution though.

[Chas Levin]

2 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Chas,

if you have an airbrush then PPP etch primer is an option. I have only used the two pack grey version but there is no reason why the single pack wouldn't work as well as the Halfords and other aerosol primers. The airbrush gives more finer control and I find a few light passes give good coverage without obscuring detail.

Hello Jol, I don't have an airbrush but I'm beginning to think it's the next inevitable step...

 

As both you and David point out, a few light passes is all that's needed and I need to concentrate on knowing when to stop! I have to be honest and say that probably between two thirds and three quarters of all the kits I've built to date have had coats of both primer and top colours that were too thick; I'm determined to cure myself of this habit!

 

The other - and to me, more knotty - problem with this particualr job is that while I can get a fairly good result on the sides and top (similar to a coach shape), when I go in to finish details such as the dome, chimney and smokebox front, excess is deposited over neighbouring areas (e.g. the top surface of the footplate, tank sides etc) at the same time. THe smokebox front and tank fronts are especailly awkward in this regard.

 

How do you ensure that things like boiler fittings receive even a loght coating all the way round, without over-doing other areas of the superstructure?

Edited May 22, 2021 by Chas Levin

[Jol Wilkinson]

Chas,

 

again with an airbrush you can more accurately control how much you put on and where. This photo of a Precursor may give some idea of how much the rivet detail, etc. is left "exposed". The rivets on the tender are quite small and closely spaced.

 

 

I am fortunate in having several airbrushes and find that a single action Badger 200 is perfectly okay for most jobs, although dual action brush is better for  weathering or very fine work, but take more time to master. I also use cellulose paints which are fast drying and can be built up to give good coverage without applying too much.  Ian Rathbone's book is probably the best guide for painting, although I haven't read George Dent's book specifically on airbrushing.

 

Two tone paint finishes require masking but again the Badger 200 is fine for this work.

 

 

I invariably build my locos with removeable boiler/smokeboxes, which again makes it easier to get into those awkward places when painting. This shows several models at the primer stage. They have all been primed with PPP two pack grey etch primer and the coaches have then had  cellulose red oxide primer  applied where the carriage lake will follow. I haven't masked them at this point to avoid a masking line, but will do when I get to the LNWR two colour carriage livery.

 

 

 

[Chas Levin]

2 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Chas,

 

again with an airbrush you can more accurately control how much you put on and where. This photo of a Precursor may give some idea of how much the rivet detail, etc. is left "exposed". The rivets on the tender are quite small and closely spaced.

 

 

I am fortunate in having several airbrushes and find that a single action Badger 200 is perfectly okay for most jobs, although dual action brush is better for  weathering or very fine work, but take more time to master. I also use cellulose paints which are fast drying and can be built up to give good coverage without applying too much.  Ian Rathbone's book is probably the best guide for painting, although I haven't read George Dent's book specifically on airbrushing.

 

Two tone paint finishes require masking but again the Badger 200 is fine for this work.

 

 

I invariably build my locos with removeable boiler/smokeboxes, which again makes it easier to get into those awkward places when painting. This shows several models at the primer stage. They have all been primed with PPP two pack grey etch primer and the coaches have then had  cellulose red oxide primer  applied where the carriage lake will follow. I haven't masked them at this point to avoid a masking line, but will do when I get to the LNWR two colour carriage livery.

 

 

 

Thanks Jol - the two finished locos are absolutely beautiful and they and the primed parts certainly illustrate an even, thin coverage of primer. The Precursor's tender rivets are indeed marvellously well defined, as are those at the foot of the smokebox wrapper and the section of the frames above the footplate, between the smokebox and the splashers.

 

May I follow up with some questions please?

1. Is it the case that the spray area covered by an airbrush is significantly smaller than that covered by an aerosol?

2. When you prime a boiler like the two in your tray there and you need to reach places like the rear of the chimney and the front of the dome, how do you stop excess spray re-coating the top of the boiler, handrails etc - or is the coverage area of the airbrush so small that this isn't a problem?

3. I'm familiar with the concept of building in separate assemblies - I didn't do so with this kit, partly because my inexpereince meant I felt safer following the instructions step by step, but also because I was unsure how to disguise the join between boiler and footplate and boiler and cab front, after they'd been painted. Looking at both the finished locos there's no visible join or gap: how do you achieve that? The one section I have made as a separate unit is the cab roof so I need to understand how to hide the join once that's installed...

 

Thank you in advance

[Daddyman]

Chas, remember Ian says to do detail first, so perhaps your first pass with the can should be from above and to the rear, getting the rear of the cab, dome and chimney. Put the model aside to dry and then do another pass from above and in front, getting paint on the front of the s.box, chimney, dome and cab front. Put it to one side to dry again, and then repeat either or both of those passes until you have coverage. In the next painting session you're then ready for the main areas; even there, though, you don't have to be coming at the model at 90 degrees - you can move to the front or rear to get behind handrails, etc.  

 

Doing small passes like this takes a while, but not as long as stripping a model...  

 

I think there's actually some footage of Ian spraying with an aerosol in the Right Track video, isn't there? Might help to have a look at that. 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Daddyman

[Jon4470]

Hi Chas

 

My approach with aerosols is as follows.

 

I use Halfords red oxide, grey or white primer...depends on what top colour is going on.

I lightly spray the underneath of the loco at about 30 degree angle to the vertical. That seems to get the primer into most of the awkward spots. I then turn the loco around ( still upside down) and spray the opposite side. Once dry I then repeat the process with the loco right side up.

Next I spray the cab interior and the front of the loco.

Finally I spray both sides.

 

Each phase is a light covering - enough to see if any areas are being missed, not enough to cover over detail.

 

Anything completely missed is then sprayed. This will overspray other areas but hopefully it will just be a second coat!

Finally a second light coat all over...once the awkward bits are done.

 

The fundamental thing with an aerosol is that it is either on or off......the control is only over how fast the pass is really. Always start and stop spraying off the model and spray at a steady pace.

 

Jon

 

PS. The reason for doing the underneath of the loco first is that if you damage the paint later (when painting the rest of the loco) it doesn’t show.

 

PPS Airbrush....you know you want one I haven’t used one for primer but I do use one for top coats. They do give a better finish than brushes and they are controllable unlike the aerosols.

 

 

[Chas Levin]

7 hours ago, Daddyman said:

Chas, remember Ian says to do detail first, so perhaps your first pass with the can should be from above and to the rear, getting the rear of the cab, dome and chimney. Put the model aside to dry and then do another pass from above and in front, getting paint on the front of the s.box, chimney, dome and cab front. Put it to one side to dry again, and then repeat either or both of those passes until you have coverage. In the next painting session you're then ready for the main areas; even there, though, you don't have to be coming at the model at 90 degrees - you can move to the front or rear to get behind handrails, etc.  

 

Doing small passes like this takes a while, but not as long as stripping a model...  

 

I think there's actually some footage of Ian spraying with an aerosol in the Right Track video, isn't there? Might help to have a look at that. 

Thanks David, that's a good plan.

Ian's 'detail first' advice has been rattling around in my mind actually. When I first read it I was puzzled as it wasn't what I'd done before and it seemed a little counter-intuituve - I'd always tended to go for the main picture and let the details take care of themselves, getting covered as I went by. That seemed to work fairly well on coaches, wagons and vans but of course the details there are tiny, compared to the main areas - wagon strapping, door handles and so forth. In the case of a loco, domes, tank fronts and chimneys count as details for this purpose but they definitely require separate attention, so I had already planned to try it that way round.

 

I don't have the Right Track DVD but I've now found a link to the contents on YouTube...

[Daddyman]

Sorry, Chas - I thought you had the Right Track video. Isn't it available on the Missenden site? I thought someone had posted a link to it recently. 

[Chas Levin]

3 hours ago, Jon4470 said:

Hi Chas

 

My approach with aerosols is as follows.

 

I use Halfords red oxide, grey or white primer...depends on what top colour is going on.

I lightly spray the underneath of the loco at about 30 degree angle to the vertical. That seems to get the primer into most of the awkward spots. I then turn the loco around ( still upside down) and spray the opposite side. Once dry I then repeat the process with the loco right side up.

Next I spray the cab interior and the front of the loco.

Finally I spray both sides.

 

Each phase is a light covering - enough to see if any areas are being missed, not enough to cover over detail.

 

Anything completely missed is then sprayed. This will overspray other areas but hopefully it will just be a second coat!

Finally a second light coat all over...once the awkward bits are done.

 

The fundamental thing with an aerosol is that it is either on or off......the control is only over how fast the pass is really. Always start and stop spraying off the model and spray at a steady pace.

 

Jon

 

PS. The reason for doing the underneath of the loco first is that if you damage the paint later (when painting the rest of the loco) it doesn’t show.

 

PPS Airbrush....you know you want one I haven’t used one for primer but I do use one for top coats. They do give a better finish than brushes and they are controllable unlike the aerosols.

 

 

Thanks Jon, excellent advice too!

 

The underside hasn't caused me such problems on either attempt (or on any previous models), I suppose because there are less details, angles and so forth.

 

All this has left me wondering yet again how on earth I got such a quick and easy result on the J9/10: beginners' luck, I suppose.

 

I'll compile yours and David's advice into a 'cheat sheet'.

 

I've also decided that my loco superstructure mock-ups from loo-roll etc are not helpful enough as the scale is wrong, so I've got an old Hornby bodyshell on the way from Ebay to practise on: I absolutely will not put up with a third failed attempt on what should be a quick and easy stage.

 

I also had a go at wheel lining using my motorised jig this morning and it works very well - only on a practice wheel, though the ease with which test lining wipes off the cellulose green using white spirit makes me far less nervous about doing the real wheels. It was very pleasing to see a perfect circle around the axle nut - I doubt I should be able to do that were I to hold the wheel in my other hand.

 

The bogie wheels have a simple circle round the axle end, but the drivers have two intersecting circles - a Venn Diagram, or a figure of eight, if you prefer - with one round the axle and the other round the crank pin. To do that, I'm going to make another adapted Markits axle with an upended crankpin in the top, so that the wheel can be rotated in a circle centred on the crank pin itself. Once the two circles are there I'll then remove any overlap with white spirit.

 

I'm also trying out a different bow pen, from a Thorntons set bought on Ebay for the princely sum of £16; it's smaller than the one I've been using for coaches and is giving very good results, though the paint (PPP gloss black) goes off rather quickly, necessitating frequent cleaning of the blades. I don't mind that too much though, if the actual results are good, but I'll try some Humbrol gloos black and see if that lasts a little longer in use...

[Chas Levin]

22 minutes ago, Daddyman said:

Sorry, Chas - I thought you had the Right Track video. Isn't it available on the Missenden site? I thought someone had posted a link to it recently. 

I'm not sure if the videos on the Missenden site are the same footage as the RT tape but I'll watch the YouTube one and then re-watch the Missenden (though last time I tried it wasn't working), as there's a lot to absorb and repeated viewings can only help.

Regarding your comment that repeated light passes at intervals make it a long job, that's no problem - I have plenty of patience.

[MikeTrice]

They are the same as far as I can see. Worth watching.

[Chas Levin]

1 hour ago, MikeTrice said:

They are the same as far as I can see. Worth watching.

Thanks Mike, just starting to watch the YouTube / Right Track DVD lift now and it does seem to be the same material as the Missenden ones, though none the worse for that...

[Chas Levin]

Ok, somehow, since the last time I watched the part where Ian primes a bodyshell using an aerosol (some months ago, when someone had linked the Missenden version previously) the combination of distance from the object, speed of movement and angle of spray he employs appears to have faded in my memory (to be expected at 54?).

Edited - I just went back to check and it was David's link to Missenden on a previous page of this topic, actually in November last year, which makes me feel a bit better as that's a reasonably long time ago; more of a relief was the realisation that I haven't actually used any primer since then, except on the C2 wheels recently, which are a different proposition. That makes my fading memory less embarrassing!

 

I've been veering between spraying from too far away (in a misguided attempt to achieve light coverage, which should be achived by the speed of the pass) and too close (trying to correct the powdery mess that results from being too far away). I've also been lingering too long on detail and awkward angles - resulting in flooding and in deflected paint from one surface blowing onto another and causing gritty deposits - and in general moving far too slowly and going back over areas too soon... in fact, I now think I could have made a video of my efforts and posted it as a 'How not to prime with an aerosol' guide!

 

Thank you David, Jol, Jon and Mike for your help and advice; a combination of your Six Point Priming Plan, David, along with  the speed, movement and distance combination from Ian's video is, I think, the way forward. Plus lots of practice before I strip the C2 body and do Take 3...

Edited May 23, 2021 by Chas Levin

[Jol Wilkinson]

On 22/05/2021 at 20:28, Chas Levin said:

Thanks Jol - the two finished locos are absolutely beautiful and they and the primed parts certainly illustrate an even, thin coverage of primer. The Precursor's tender rivets are indeed marvellously well defined, as are those at the foot of the smokebox wrapper and the section of the frames above the footplate, between the smokebox and the splashers.

 

May I follow up with some questions please?

1. Is it the case that the spray area covered by an airbrush is significantly smaller than that covered by an aerosol?

2. When you prime a boiler like the two in your tray there and you need to reach places like the rear of the chimney and the front of the dome, how do you stop excess spray re-coating the top of the boiler, handrails etc - or is the coverage area of the airbrush so small that this isn't a problem?

3. I'm familiar with the concept of building in separate assemblies - I didn't do so with this kit, partly because my inexpereince meant I felt safer following the instructions step by step, but also because I was unsure how to disguise the join between boiler and footplate and boiler and cab front, after they'd been painted. Looking at both the finished locos there's no visible join or gap: how do you achieve that? The one section I have made as a separate unit is the cab roof so I need to understand how to hide the join once that's installed...

 

Thank you in advance

Chas,

 

I think that your questions have already been answered but here's my thoughts.

 

1. The spray area with an airbrush is adjustable and can be very small. Even at it's largest it will never be as big as an aerosol. You need a miniature spray gun for

     that (as used for spot or smart repairs  on cars).

2. Your last sentence covers it.

3. I ensure that the gaps are kept to an absolute minimum during the build process. On the Precursor the lower outer sides of the smokebox actually overlap the

    frames above the running plate, so had to be kept carefully aligned. I varnish the model after final assembly and lining (using Ronseal with a dash of black as Ian R 

    recommends which probably also helps disguise any minor gaps. With black against black  - especially with matt black underside to a roof - gaps aren't always too

   obvious. However cab roofs are something I usually solder in place using the RSU before painting as they are probably the most difficult to fit with a minimal gap all

   around. It  makes painting  the cab inside a bit difficult but it is a pay off I prefer.

 

Jol

[Chas Levin]

4 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Chas,

 

I think that your questions have already been answered but here's my thoughts.

 

1. The spray area with an airbrush is adjustable and can be very small. Even at it's largest it will never be as big as an aerosol. You need a miniature spray gun for

     that (as used for spot or smart repairs  on cars).

2. Your last sentence covers it.

3. I ensure that the gaps are kept to an absolute minimum during the build process. On the Precursor the lower outer sides of the smokebox actually overlap the

    frames above the running plate, so had to be kept carefully aligned. I varnish the model after final assembly and lining (using Ronseal with a dash of black as Ian R 

    recommends which probably also helps disguise any minor gaps. With black against black  - especially with matt black underside to a roof - gaps aren't always too

   obvious. However cab roofs are something I usually solder in place using the RSU before painting as they are probably the most difficult to fit with a minimal gap all

   around. It  makes painting  the cab inside a bit difficult but it is a pay off I prefer.

 

Jol

Thanks very much Jol; other answers have indeed shed lots of light, but it's always good to learn more!

 

One thing that's emerging here is that it isn't going to be too long before I become one of the newest owners of an airbrush...

 

Thanks also for the observations about concealing gaps between sub-assemblies, food for thought there. This - the designing of sub-assemblies to be united only after painting - is something I'm going to concentrate on incorporating in my next loco build.

Funnily enough it's something I've instinctively done with every coach I've built to date as it's seemed to be the obvious course and it often grows naturally from the assmebly sequence - seprate roof, body chassis and/or underframe, so it should have seemed more obvious with locos too.

I get the impression that breaking down loco kits into seprate assemblies is something of an after-market practice, usually integrated into a build by the builder rather than specified in the kit instructions, which usually seem to take a fairly linear course to a largely monolithic end product. If that's the case, is that because it's simpler to build by adding further pieces onto one unit?

[Jol Wilkinson]

Chas,

 

the loco kits I have designed for John at London Road Models all have removeable boilers to facilitate assembly and painting. Other "aids" to simplify construction are incorporated where possible, based on my own experience from building models from a variety of manufacturers. Separate boiler units are the most obvious.

 

Some designers  follow a different approach, preferring a more "traditional" approach with a the boiler soldered in place. Adding parts that make assembly easier isn't difficult but does take up more etch space which can increase the kit cost slightly, although I doubt if that is often a consideration. Sometimes these additional parts are a good idea, such as boiler, smokebox and firebox internal formers to guarantee the finished profile of the unit. Sometimes the prototype designer does us a favour by putting beadings, etc. at important locations such as the front spectacle beading on the NER G1 shown in an earlier posting, which covers the cab/firebox join.

 

Jol

[Chas Levin]

7 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Chas,

 

the loco kits I have designed for John at London Road Models all have removeable boilers to facilitate assembly and painting. Other "aids" to simplify construction are incorporated where possible, based on my own experience from building models from a variety of manufacturers. Separate boiler units are the most obvious.

 

Some designers  follow a different approach, preferring a more "traditional" approach with a the boiler soldered in place. Adding parts that make assembly easier isn't difficult but does take up more etch space which can increase the kit cost slightly, although I doubt if that is often a consideration. Sometimes these additional parts are a good idea, such as boiler, smokebox and firebox internal formers to guarantee the finished profile of the unit. Sometimes the prototype designer does us a favour by putting beadings, etc. at important locations such as the front spectacle beading on the NER G1 shown in an earlier posting, which covers the cab/firebox join.

 

Jol

Interesting thoughts, Jol, thank you. I have a few LRM kits in my pile, though I don't know the designers' identities (and I don't think it's mentioned in the instructions) and one of the things I'm finding more and more interesting as I build various kits is seeing how these kinds of challenges have been dealt with by the designer. There are three LNWR awaiting my attention, a Southern Division Large Bloomer, a Samson and a Teutonic - are any of those your designs? The LNWR's not my usual area but those three particularly caught my attention for different reasons...

 

In the case of loco boilers, I shall endeavour in future to make them detachable, whether or not that's part of the original kit design, as that's one area in which it seems to me that the improved ease of coverage - and the almost certain improvement in quality of paint finish - that a separate boiler enables is worth a considerable amount of trouble being taken to achieve it.

 

I may live to regret those words, of course!

[Jol Wilkinson]

3 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Interesting thoughts, Jol, thank you. I have a few LRM kits in my pile, though I don't know the designers' identities (and I don't think it's mentioned in the instructions) and one of the things I'm finding more and more interesting as I build various kits is seeing how these kinds of challenges have been dealt with by the designer. There are three LNWR awaiting my attention, a Southern Division Large Bloomer, a Samson and a Teutonic - are any of those your designs? The LNWR's not my usual area but those three particularly caught my attention for different reasons...

 

In the case of loco boilers, I shall endeavour in future to make them detachable, whether or not that's part of the original kit design, as that's one area in which it seems to me that the improved ease of coverage - and the almost certain improvement in quality of paint finish - that a separate boiler enables is worth a considerable amount of trouble being taken to achieve it.

 

I may live to regret those words, of course!

Hi Chas,

 

I have to plead guilty to the Bloomer and Teutonic (but not the 1800/2000gallon tender with the latter, those are original George Norton Connoisseurs Choice kit designs). Both have "detachable" boilers. Do you have the McConnel or Webb rebuild version of the Bloomer? The Teutonic is one of my favorite LNWR locos and I will be building mine as the last one in service, 1309 Adriatic, in her last year with the shortened front frames. It is some years since I designed the kit but having built several test etches, I didn't get around to building my own completely finished model

 

The Samson is the work of Bob or Mike Williams, designed for Geoff Williams Aylesbury layout. A small batch was produced for sale and was later adopted into the LRM range. I also still have one on of those to do shelf.  

 

Jol

[Chas Levin]

11 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Hi Chas,

 

I have to plead guilty to the Bloomer and Teutonic (but not the 1800/2000gallon tender with the latter, those are original George Norton Connoisseurs Choice kit designs). Both have "detachable" boilers. Do you have the McConnel or Webb rebuild version of the Bloomer? The Teutonic is one of my favorite LNWR locos and I will be building mine as the last one in service, 1309 Adriatic, in her last year with the shortened front frames. It is some years since I designed the kit but having built several test etches, I didn't get around to building my own completely finished model

 

The Samson is the work of Bob or Mike Williams, designed for Geoff Williams Aylesbury layout. A small batch was produced for sale and was later adopted into the LRM range. I also still have one on of those to do shelf.  

 

Jol

Morning Jol, I'm very pleased to hear that the Bloomer and Teutonic have detachable boilers.

I have the McConnell version of the Bloomer.

I agree about the Teutonic: I bought the Bloomer and Samson a while ago, mainly because I wanted to build some early Victorian locos and there weren't many kits around (that I could find, that is); my enthusiasm for early locos trumped my usual attachment to the GNR/LNER. I was going to leave it at that for the LNWR (there's a limit to how many visiting locos can be accommodated on home metals ) but something about the lines of the Teutonic - and the uniquely interesting looking Joy valve motion - stayed with me and although it wasn't really early to my mind (compared the Bloomer and the Samson) I decided to get one.

I think it looks particularly elegant viewed in profile, as your eye moves forward from the rear of the body to the front. I know you know the look of them very well, but in case anyone else reading this wonders what I mean, here's a well-known photo - already all over the internet - which shows this very well I think:

 

 

I shall build mine several kits down the line, because I want to make sure I do the best job I can of rendering those elegant lines (not to mention a working motion) so the more experience I've had by then, the better!

The Samson is a very attractive looking early loco too - well, 1860s is pretty early in my book - and I saw one running on the London Road layout at one of the last model railway shows I attended.

[Chas Levin]

The weather's still windy and damp - not good for spray painting - so I made a start on lining the wheels:

 

 

Very pleased for the most part with them. One - the first one I did, naturally - needs a few of the spokes going over again but in general I think they've turned out quite well, as a first attempt. The gloss looks very shiny of course - these are simply as painted, no varnish or other treatment. I've followed the look of the lining as shown in Nigel Digby's 'Liveries' book, where the line round the centre boss and crank pin is thicker than those on the spokes.

 

The most useful technique was one I learned from Ian's book, that of stroking a very fine brush, lightly primed with white spirit, along the edge of a line to thin it: absolute lifesaver and I wish I'd known about it when lining the teak coaches I've built. Doing it fairly soon after painting, tiny amounts of paint are passed onto the brush by capillary action, made possible by the white spirit, and the result is a much tidier edge and a thinner line.

 

I also discovered a temporary fix for the problem of the paint going off or clogging in the very tip of the bow pen. It's a pain, as it means that loading the tip only gives workable lines for a few minutes, but I found that sliding a piece of paper (I use post-its for  this, as that's also the paper I used to set the blade gap) through the loaded gap carries away some paint and with it the clogged or partially set bits, so you get some more mileage out of one load.

 

This was also the first proper outing for my motorised circle lining jig. You may think this was over-engineering, especially when you realise that only about two thirds of the the main circle round the centre boss is left in place as it forms a keyhole shape with the lower lined section that goes round the crankpin hole, but the accuracy of that main circle gave me the confidence to put in the two short straights between the circles (done with the bow pen against a ruler) and then complete the smaller circle round the crank pin hole by dotting, freehand, with the bow pen - with quite a bit of line-stroking afterwards!

 

[Chas Levin]

Half of the bogie and truck wheels done this evening:

 

 

A couple of spokes look like they're missing their lines in this photo - it's because they're a little thinner, not quite as solidly done and a little less central than their neighbours. I'll try and go over them again tomorrow when I'm doing the other wheels, though I'm a little torn between the 'looks fine from normal viewing distance' argument, versus the high probability of messing up what's there by trying to go over it again .

 

In the end, I compromised on how to hold and turn these smaller wheels. My first attempt at making an 1/8" to 2mm converter axle didn't go as well as I'd hoped; as far as I could tell, the Gibson converter sleeves are not absolutely centrally bored so that a 2mm axle, when encased in them, didn't revolve a wheel on its end in a perfect circle. Rather than mess about, I decided to try hand power, reasoning that the desired circel is much smaller than that on the drivers, small enough that I could use the length of one finger along the wheel rim:

 

 

That's the C2 bogie, mounted on the lining jig, allowing the wheel and axle to turn very smoothly in what will be its own bearings.

As with lining the drivers, it's easy to lose perspective on what looks acceptable at normal viewng distances, when spending so much time working at high magnification...