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Wheels now lined:

 

755582650_LRMC1220210528(1).jpg.829dc00af535d136dd8560a97bb5c40a.jpg

 

Predictably I did end up going over some spokes again, mainly on the bogie wheels, but I found it surprisingly difficult to get a good photo of the full set, where you can actually see all the lining; partly this is down to my using a phone camera, partly my less than professional lighting (window to the left, anglepoise LED magnifier to the right, weak-kneed ceiling fixture above) and partly to the nature of the colours and their finishes. From what I can see, the contrast between the semi-matt green and the gloss black changes considerbly according to viewing angle. Not a problem on the wheels themselves however - a couple of thin coats of varnish and they'll look much better. I also added some black lining to the test driver I'd been using while building the motorised lining jig, so I can try different varnishes on that before committing to the full set...

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Posted (edited)

Success, thank goodness!

 

1125724315_LRMC1220210530(3).jpg.9b3e8f3cb10c4e047724931b5026f554.jpg

 

 

The delay - while awaiting fine weather - was not wasted however, as I spent some time practising with both Halfords and Tetrosyl Etch Primers, on various things including a couple of scrap Hornby bodies, which was interesting.

 

Amongst other things, I learnt that the Halfords aerosol appears to be at a slightly higher pressure than the Tetrosyl, judging by the force and speed with which the two emerge. The hole in the Halfords nozzle is also ever so slightly larger and definitely round, where the Tetrosyl is a tiny slit with a much smaller centre hole. These things, coupled with the results I obtained in using them, suggest to me that distance is a little more critical with the Tetrosyl, which seems more prone to mid-air, pre-model drying. I think this is due to it producing a smaller amount, of a finer spray, which is also travelling more slowly. That means it's more prone to be partially dried before hitting the model, which can produce some of the finish problems I'd been having - no criticism of the products here, but rather of my unskilled use of them.

 

In practising with the two brands, I found it easier to achieve a good finish on the Hornby bodies with the Halfords, from about 9-10 inches away but moving pretty fast, than with the Tetrosyl. "Pretty fast" is a bit vague I know, but what I can tell you is that I watched the point on the YouTube/Right Track video linked in a recent post on this thread at about 1'50", where Ian Rathbone primes a loco body, and I practised moving my hand at the speed he does. Being a string player probably helped, as I spent many hours in my youth learning to move my bowing arm in particular ways and at particular speeds. When I first watched that video late last year, I didn't pay such close attention to the speed question, but he actually moves pretty fast and I guess I've just been lucky up to now that this hasn't caused me problems on previous models...

 

The good finish with the Halfords included details and those areas where two planes meet at right-angles, such as fooplate - or cab - and boiler where it delivers sufficient wet material to reach those areas very well and, provided you move fast enough, doesn't flood. The Tetrosyl was rather more problematic and I was still getting a little graininess, even when I moved in a bit closer or moved a little more slowly... until I moved in too close or moved too slowly, at which point it flooded and also produced quite a bit of what I think is the 'deflected paint' problem that Ian mentions in his book, where it's blown off one of the surfaces it's hitting at an acute angle and it lands somewhere nearby: by that point, it's pretty dried and you find that things like handrails or lamp-irons aquire miniature outcrops of crusted paint. They rather remind me of the way iron filings cluster round a magnet pole...

The slightly grainy finish was even evident - though to a much milder degree - on boiler curves, where the area directly facing the Tetrosyl can and perpendicular to the axis of the spray was fine, but as the curve followed over the top of the boiler - so that the spray is landing at a more acute angle and is also a tiny bit further away - the finish became less smooth.

 

However, I also practised on various flat surfaces - scrap shiny cardboard box sides and so forth - and there's no doubt that where there are no angles, multiple planes or other similar difficulties, I could get a smoother surface with the Tetrosyl than the Halfords: the difference is very slight, but noticeable. That does suggest that if you can master the spray characteristics of the Tetrosyl (the letter-box spray pattern and the slower, finer spray) sufficiently well to cope with polygonal shapes, it might be a slightly better end result - the separate cab of this C2 was done with Tetrosyl in fact and was no problem.

 

Clearly my move to Tetrosyl must have been after building the DJH J9/10 last year and in the case of this C2, I'm more than happy with a return to the Halfords finish; I'll continue working with the Tetrosyl on things like vans and coaches, but I'll wait until I'm more expert before trying it on another loco!

 

Meanwhile, onwards and upwards: having achieved a sensibly even and thin coat of primer, I'm now able to see that there are three or four very small areas that need a touch of watered-down Milliput and I was very pleased at how small they were. Also very pleased with the seating of the dome: because this wasn't the dome that came with the kit, the curve of its underside wasn't a precise match to the boiler and after a certain amount of efforts to match it, I decided to go with that style of dome where there's a continuous blend between it and the boiler (evident in quite a high proportion of prototype photos), rather than a visible lip. I thought it would need more fettling once the primer was on, but it's turned out very well:).

Edited by Chas Levin
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Congratulations, Chas! It must be a relief. It looks very good. I, too, was worried about the dome, but as you say, it's come out very well. Both model and finish look flawless. 

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Posted (edited)

Thanks David - yes, big relief! I was beginning to think it might be jinxed and thought I'd better make very sure the third attempt worked, as it would have been so demoralising to have to strip it a third time:rolleyes:.

 

Thank you for the kind words but the model's not quite immaculate - there are a couple of tiny gaps along the bottom edges of the side tanks, where they sit in a half-etched groove in the footplate, only a few mm long in each case but exactly the kind of thing you only see once the primer's on, plus one side of the steam chest has a slight gap - all easily dealt with though...

Edited by Chas Levin
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Fillings filled:

 

1564926256_LRMC1220210601(1).jpg.20256b812e981e834ae83d7338477ecc.jpg

 

 

Watered-down Milliput has changed my life...

 

Although the various colours going on top of this give good coverage, I'll go over these snall white areas in primer to make sure there's no variation, but I'm not spraying again: instead, I'll spray for a few seconds into the aerosol's own plastic top, which deposits enough paint (or primer) and solvent to give a few minutes' working, using a small brush. The solvent evaporates pretty fast - as you'd expect - but it's probably similar to the working time between re-charging a bow pen in warm weather and it allows for touching in things like these very small filler lines, without re-spraying and possibly over-doing things... Because let's face it, after the trouble I had getting this body primed, no-one wants to see it stripped again:rolleyes:!

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With lining looming, I thought I'd have a quick practise, as the only lining I've done before was a single colour, primrose on teak coaching stock. I'm starting with the chassis, because that's ready for lining first; it has a 1/8" vermilion line 3/4" from the edge, with the 3/4" filled in black. Prior to reading Ian Rathbone's book I'd have tried to do the thicker black line first, adding the red afterwards; I hadn't stopped to think how difficult it would be to run the bow pen along the edge of the metal! In discussing filling in a thick black line between two thin white ones, Ian's technique is to do the outer two lines with a bow pen first, filling in the black afterwards, by brush: he comments that filling in like that "isn't too difficult". Having now tried filling in alongside just one line, I'd agree that there are many things far more difficult, but it certainly isn't easy. This was a quick trial run - and I do stress 'quick' - just to get the feel:

 

1946265306_LRMC1220210603(1).jpg.0b05d3ae69db10a14f99f34978d209c7.jpg

 

A number of things cropped up: for one thing, the relative closeness of hue between the brown and the black makes it quite difficult to see that the black is really nudging up against the red. I also found it quite difficult to get a smooth, even finish on the black on such a narrow line - and this line is still somewhat over-scale for 3/4"! Practice will help with both problems, of course, not to mention the fact that I used slightly too wide a brush, in my keenness to have a go.

 

It also brought up an interesting aspect of the way bow pens work. Unlike a biro - or even a fountain pen - which delivers a uniform width of line at any speed, paint flows from the bow pen into a thicker line, the slower you move: it's more like using a paint brush. So, having set your desired width, you need to move the pen at the maximum speed that will deliver an unbroken line (too fast and gaps appear, presumably because the paint can't flow quickly enough, or perhaps through intermittent contact between the blades and the surface?) but no slower, or the line thickens, surprisingly suddenly. I hadn't really understood this on previous LNER coach jobs and 'winged' it, producing reasonably similar lines more by accident than design; they look ok from normal viewing but the lining on this loco needs to be a great deal more accurate.

 

The varying thickness also brought up an interesting aspect of colour visibility - or perception - at small scale. Here's a blow-up of part of the practice panel from the photo above:

 

1841184562_LRMC1220210603(2).jpg.46927abcf1595b084a6469e22f0f3ded.jpg

 

The upper red line is getting close to the thinnest I've so far been able to do but it's still slightly over-scale - 1/8" scales at 0.04mm and my best currently is about 0.06mm. The lower one is definitely over-scale and was just for comparison; the black lines likewise. The problem is that from normal viewing distance, between the black and the brown, that upper red line is all but invisible, whereas the lower one is quite easily seen. I don't want to be any further over-scale than the limit of my bow pen technique, but I'd like the colours to be seen. My instinct is to stick with the thinnest line I can manage, but try to make it as solid and strongly coloured as possible.

And then to book an eye-test...:rolleyes:

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17 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

That's a decent result.

Thanks Rich, glad to hear that; it's a juggling act to retain perspective, between working under high magnification, looking at blown-up photos and just looking at the thing in real life!

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First steps in lining the chassis - horizontal lines on the bogie:

 

896509518_LRMC1220210604(1).jpg.67727f273ac1e36b804dbc09af3aff51.jpg

 

I found it quite difficult to measure lines this thin (and I'm using a decent quality Mitutoyo digital caliper), but as near as I can, they're 0.1mm, which actually scales up to 1/4" on the prototype but represents a compromise - as discussed above - between scale width and layout visibility. The slightly 'fuzzy' look to the lines' edges is a photo resolution artefact - they look better in real life.

Although the painting diagram (thanks again for that Dave!) gives 1/8" as the width for these lines, they're not quite so thin in Nigel Digby's drawings, though I know those aren't strictly to scale. I also took a look at various contemporary colour drawings, where there is quite siginificant variation in width - though again, they're drawings and paintings so they weren't intended to be used as reference tools. Unfortunately, contemporary black and white photos don't show the red and black lining because of the way those colours register - or fail to register - on the film of the time.

Doing the lining is so much easier using the 'Rathbone Jig' - after all, no-one said it could only be used to mount a full length structure:

 

179363437_LRMC1220210604(2).jpg.37186657593b5dc0d0d15b760b0c872a.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Red lining completed, black edging added:

 

585088906_LRMC1220210606(1).jpg.e544ddbc59ef633393c06bc3809b43aa.jpg

 

 

It all looks a little rough at the moment - especially in close-up, but some cleaning up and a couple of coats varnish will blend and flatten things out a bit. The standard of my brushwork needs to be raised though: trying to get thin, smooth, even lines on a far from perfectly flat and even brown surface was never going to be 100% successful. I did consider stripping the bogie and re-doing the brown, but it'll be under the body and barely visible, so I think I can live with it - another good reason to have begun my multi-coloured lining with the bogie:rolleyes:.

 

I haven't been able to find out for certain whether the prototype lining extended around the upper curved edges of the bogie frames, over the axle holes, as the only pictures I've found invariably show a complete loco with bogie wheels in place, so the only visible part of the lining is the central section, between the wheels. One exception to that is a GNR postcard of the No. 1 Stirling Single in GNR livery, where bogie lining is just visible between the wheel spokes; it's a drawing of course, though I shouldn't have thought the artist would add in a detail like that - quite awkward to render convincingly - unless he saw it on the loco...  I decided to do it anyway, on the basis that they seemed fond of lining any available chassis edges, cut-outs and so forth. In addition, it provided additional practise at lining and, whether it's right or wrong, those areas will be almost entirely hidden by the wheels and the superstructure.

Edited by Chas Levin
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33 minutes ago, Chas Levin said:

Red lining completed, black edging added:

 

585088906_LRMC1220210606(1).jpg.e544ddbc59ef633393c06bc3809b43aa.jpg

 

 

It all looks a little rough at the moment - especially in close-up, but some cleaning up and a couple of coats varnish will blend and flatten things out a bit. The standard of my brushwork needs to be raised though: trying to get thin, smooth, even lines on a far from perfectly flat and even brown surface was never going to be 100% successful. I did consider stripping the bogie and re-doing the brown, but it'll be under the body and barely visible, so I think I can live with it - another good reason to have begun my multi-coloured lining with the bogie:rolleyes:.

 

I haven't been able to find out for certain whether the prototype lining extended around the upper curved edges of the bogie frames, over the axle holes, as the only pictures I've found invariably show a complete loco with bogie wheels in place, so the only visible part of the lining is the central section, between the wheels. One exception to that is a GNR postcard of the No. 1 Stirling Single in GNR livery, where bogie lining is just visible between the wheel spokes; it's a drawing of course, though I shouldn't have thought the artist would add in a detail like that - quite awkward to render convincingly - unless he saw it on the loco...  I decided to do it anyway, on the basis that they seemed fond of lining any available chassis edges, cut-outs and so forth. In addition, it provided additional practise at lining and, whether it's right or wrong, those areas will be almost entirely hidden by the wheels and the superstructure.

 

Chas

That’s looking good!

 

Jon

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Chas,

I have just sent you a PM but I fear the images may come through too small.  This little bit from a photo of the Stirling Single may be of use.

 

image.png.736c07c329d521c1f2e78be128a89692.png

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21 minutes ago, teaky said:

Chas,

I have just sent you a PM but I fear the images may come through too small.  This little bit from a photo of the Stirling Single may be of use.

 

image.png.736c07c329d521c1f2e78be128a89692.png

Thanks very much Rob, as mentioned in my PM reply, those images you sent are very interesting and helpful, but it's this enlargement / detail that really shows it, doesn't it?

I thought they'd have continued the lining behind the wheels: it was an age of Doing Things Properly, wasn't it - they didn't skimp, just because it wouldn't often be seen...

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1 hour ago, Jon4470 said:

 

Chas

That’s looking good!

 

Jon

Thanks Jon - it's the first time I've tried using the compass bow pen and offsetting from a curved edge and it was much easier than I'd thought. A couple were right first time, the other two took a couple of goes each though! I found painting in the black more difficult...

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Today I was able to put the bogie together - very pleasing to see part of the loco almost finished! The smallest part, but still...

 

162071817_LRMC1220210609(6).jpg.2df98638d200fbd919fff7642bdbb1fb.jpg

 

1114773610_LRMC1220210609(7).jpg.de8a0a2e02d67de88df1bf6c0dda7fad.jpg

 

I say 'almost finished' because I'll paint the axle ends black (with a dab of cyano first) once the completed loco's been run in a bit, in case there's any need to disassemble again. The lining on both the bogie frames and the wheels looks much better under a couple of coats of satin varnish, so that all the colours have a similar degree of shine.

Crankpins and the pony truck also had some attention:

 

1102217164_LRMC1220210608(2).jpg.034fe7300001d9354f8bc212e1c5c999.jpg

 

I was worried that the quite wide crank pin flange would obscure my carefully done black lining - I'd put it as close to the edge of the flat area as I dared - but it circles the flange perfectly:

 

641563945_LRMC1220210608(1).jpg.2e72c9b9c91d32c320d757e98d3adb44.jpg

 

Not that it'll be very visible of course, once the conn rods are in place but, like the lining on the end areas of the bogie and that on much of the main chassis, although it won't be visible, we'll know it's there :).

 

I've also started lining the chassis - it certainly gets easier with practice:

 

624657532_LRMC1220210609(1).jpg.394794b21bf4088bc436966d29468dc3.jpg

 

Like the bogie frame, I tried not to be too perfectionist about those areas that will be behind the wheels... Ian doesn't mention using his lining jig for a chassis but there seemed no reason not to do so. I had to use spacers (spare short pieces of aluminium tube) because the front fixing hole is inside a boxed-in area of the frame, too narrow to admit the top of the jig's bracket - here's another picture that shows the spacer a bit more clearly, and the other side of the chassis:

 

673439299_LRMC1220210609(2).jpg.f81308e37324d03ed869c85144ee8363.jpg

 

I'm finding the lining very satisfying to do: it takes some serious concentration, but it looks so nice! I've been getting on better by not worrying quite so much about the width or accurate placing of the lines as they go on and instead, going over them afterwards with a brush lightly dampened with white spirit, 'stroking' the edge of the line - as per Ian's recommendation - to thin it down, adjust where the final line lies and so forth.

All the filling, fettling and re-priming of the main body's done too, so the next thing is the light green top coat, which I must admit I've been putting off a little; all these other things need doing anyway so it seems best to tackle things when I feel in the right frame of mind. I'll practice on the scrap Honby bodies first, and then work out some careful masking...:scratchhead:

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Posted (edited)

Finally got going on the light green cellulose aerosol work and it's turned out quite well I think - a touch of orange peel on parts of the boiler, but the tank sides are very good and that's where the main lining work will be:

 

221205179_LRMC1220210614(3).jpg.bb45c66afd6552ded4b3b111d0d49d46.jpg

 

935882486_LRMC1220210614(6).jpg.3865950c2821a8f92f14f1d336079879.jpg

 

1293815996_LRMC1220210614(5).jpg.0953554e3d86404d2f0c526ca57bacbb.jpg

 

There's very little touching-in required (especially as areas such as the panel edges will be over-painted in dark green anyway) and considering how carefully I masked it and how long I spent practising on scrap bodies and empty plastic containers of various shapes and sizes before doing it, I'm pleased that's the case - here's a shot of it towards the end of the masking:

 

1998626056_LRMC1220210614(1).jpg.5d2114c85f1625a387d862dffcf0afc4.jpg

 

After this, I added strips made from the adhesive areas of post-it notes, to cover the tank sides, bunker sides and those boiler areas still visible. This meant that after dealing with the underside of the boiler from underneath the model, I could concentrate the next session entirely on the front surfaces of the side-tanks, without worrying about paint depositing elsewhere. Once they were done, off came the post-it strips along the tank sides and bunker so they could be done. Lastly, the post-its masking the boiler were removed and that was done, with of course the dome and safety valves.

This two-stage masking system worked very well; I used post-its for the midway removable pieces because I thought using proper masking tape (even the fairly low-tack Tamiya I use) would be bound to dislodge other masked areas that needed to stay in place for later sessions.

 

Meanwhile, the chassis has had the rest of its lining done and been varnished:

 

1073669500_LRMC1220210614(8).jpg.76bdf9155d35e02f819051da6083998a.jpg

 

I didn't spend as long on the chassis lining as I could have done, as it's going to be invisible from normal viewing angles (and pretty hard to examine in all but a few areas from even the most immodest viewpoints), so I know it's not top notch. In addition, my less than immaculate brushed surface wasn't great for really crisp lining, as I mentioned in an earlier post; that's another thing I'm learning for myself, having read it plenty of times and not given it due weight. The surface provided by the aerosol cellulose green is however considerably better, so better results should be possible on the body.

All in all though, a good day's work: I'd been putting off the green spraying because I knew that if I messed it up I'd have to strip the whole body again, so I'm very pleased with this!:D

Edited by Chas Levin
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The two-stage masking idea seems a good way of going about things, Chas. 

 

Remember that you can (and probably should) make the Tamiya even lower tack by sticking it down on, say, a piece of glass before applying it to the model; I always do that 3 or 4 times.  

 

 

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Chas,

 

excellent results but why bother to mask the primer?  You have to mask the green anyway before applying black.

 

I know it adds more cost but using an airbrush really helps with a model like this. You can spray the first colour with the minimum of over spray, then mask and apply the second colour. Using cellulose in an airbrush also gives thinner coats and minimises the chance of orange peel.

 

Jol

 

 

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3 hours ago, Daddyman said:

The two-stage masking idea seems a good way of going about things, Chas. 

 

Remember that you can (and probably should) make the Tamiya even lower tack by sticking it down on, say, a piece of glass before applying it to the model; I always do that 3 or 4 times.

Thanks David, I do that with masking tape though I only do it once or twice, so I might increase it...

 

Actually, for much of this job, I used these masking sheets: https://www.migjimenez.com/en/accessories/2375-masking-sheets-8432074080435.html.

The tack level seems about the same as Tamiya - in fact the look and feel of the tape itself is very similar - and it allows quite complex shapes to be cut out. Once their positioned, I only made contact with the model in a few key places, but it's easier to be able to choose from the whole surface being sticky, rather than trying to mask partly with paper and partly with tape. FOr instance, I cut a piece to go over the front end of the footplate and along the sides, beneath the boiler sides, right up to the front corners of the side-tanks, whilst also hanging down in front of the buffer beam, sticking it to the model under the front of the footplate. As with the Tamiya - and your advice - I stuck the cut-outs down a couple of times and there were no problems with lifting the primer.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Chas,

 

excellent results but why bother to mask the primer?  You have to mask the green anyway before applying black.

 

I know it adds more cost but using an airbrush really helps with a model like this. You can spray the first colour with the minimum of over spray, then mask and apply the second colour. Using cellulose in an airbrush also gives thinner coats and minimises the chance of orange peel.

 

Jol

Thanks Jol; I masked the primer because I don't want to build up successive layers of paint (e.g. primer + green + black) where I can avoid it.

I have a tendency to coat too thickly (I'm working on it!:rolleyes:) so extra layers are to be avoided, for details' sake.

 

I know you're right about an airbrush and I have one on the way to try out, but never having used one before, I want to spend some time with it and get used to using it before using it on anything like this. Also, having gone to the trouble of getting the GNR Green matched into custom filled aerosols and having used them successfully on the wheels, I wanted to see if I could use them on the model too. There's also a time element: although I'm enjoying this build very much, I don't want it to go on for ever and stopping now to learn how to use an airbrush would delay even more. I should add too the the orange peel areas look worse in the photos than they do in real life...

 

Not sure about being able to use a cellulose version of the GNR green for an airbrush though: the Phoenix Precision version (from which I had the cellulose aerosols matched) is enamel, but I guess if you can have custom aerosols done in cellulose, they'd also do custom matched cellulose in a tin, which could then be thinned for airbrushing?

Edited by Chas Levin
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Hi Chas,

 

I use cellulose in LNWR colours I had matched from sprayed  PPP samples. These came direct from an automotive paint manufacturer back in the days when I worked for Peugeot Motor Company

 

Craftmaster Paints supply railway colours in enamels but also do cellulose automotive paints. They might be worth a call.

 

https://www.craftmasterpaints.co.uk/

 

Jol

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7 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Hi Chas,

 

I use cellulose in LNWR colours I had matched from sprayed  PPP samples. These came direct from an automotive paint manufacturer back in the days when I worked for Peugeot Motor Company

 

Craftmaster Paints supply railway colours in enamels but also do cellulose automotive paints. They might be worth a call.

 

https://www.craftmasterpaints.co.uk/

 

Jol

Thanks Jol, that's very interesting - the Craftmaster Paints link I mean - as I'd not come across them before. Mind you, it also opens up another authentically colour-matched can of worms, doesn't it: the samples of LNER Doncaster and Darlington green they show on their Railway Colours page (https://www.craftmasterpaints.co.uk/colours/railway-colours/) are - to my eye - respectively more yellow/warm/olive-tinged and more blue/cold/mint-tinged than PPP's versions. Their LNER Freight Oxide is also very different to anything I've seen elsewhere...

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I haven't had much modelling time over the last couple of days, but I have been able to settle a couple of livery questions that had been rattling around, waiting for answers.

 

One concerns the vertical fronts of the side tanks: how were they painted? I hadn't yet looked too closely at this question but had got the impression from most of the photos I'd collected so far for this project that they were a single colour (poor lighting and B&W on-the-move photos can hide a lot) and had included them in my light green spraying the other day... until I went to bed that night and, half asleep, sat up with a start, realising that if they were one colour, it would surely be the darker green that goes out to the edges, wouldn't it?

I took a closer look at how others have dealt with this area and found quite a variety: some other modellers have indeed continued the dark green from the tank sides' edges, taking it all the way round the front surface (as can also be seen on the preserved N2 1744, in GNR livery); but others (including Hornby, on their GNR liveried N2) stop the dark green on the corner and do the front in the light green. Amongst all the photos I could find online, only one does something rather different, by decorating that front surface with the full lining that's on the tank sides and the bunker. So, who is right?

 

The one model that has the tank fronts lined is shown in a photo that came up on Tony Wright's 'Wright writes' thread quite a while ago, included amongst some models he'd been asked to sell for charity from the estate of the late Gerald Scarborough. Mr Scarborough was something of a hero in my Airfix-obsessed childhood: unlike today, when we have the internet and more books on modelling than anyone could possibly read in a lifetime, there wasn't so much reference material around then and my copies of several of the Airfix Magazine Guides were very well thumbed indeed. I have such fond memories of them that a while ago I bought a couple on Ebay, just to see what I'd make of them now and unsurprisingly, they hold up very well indeed. I'd always assumed that he specialised in Airfix kits and was quite surprised when Tony W showed photos of 4mm locos; my faith in Mr Scarborough's judgement however was such that I thought I'd better do some more research: if he thought those tank fronts were meant to be lined, I bet he had good reason.

I recently (finally) got copies of some of the RCTS LNER green books but I hadn't yet sat down and looked through them: lo and behold, in the C2/C12 chapter, there are about half a dozen photos that very clearly show those tank fronts fully lined, something I'd failed to find any clear photographic evidence of online at all! Below are cropped details from a couple - apologies for the quality but they get the message across - just to show how clear the lining actually is; I'm hoping it's OK to post crops like this, but as there are so many other liveried versions of this area of this loco floating round the web, I thought it might be useful for anyone else building a GNR version of one:

 

678782078_GNRtank-frontlivery(1)C2.jpg.e1391a5be8d279c74547a1ea9e133c3c.jpg

 

1128536127_GNRtank-frontlivery(4)C2.jpg.70df944c682edf40ea5995c9baef50dc.jpg

 

Interestingly, there is a notable difference between these two photos: in the upper photo the front panel's lining extends pretty much to the very edge of what appears to be front-facing surface, only just before the curve starts; in the lower photo however, the front panel lining appears to be set back from the curve by pretty much the same distance as the side panel lining. I guess this sort of variation must have been quite common in the days when everything was hand-painted in different workshops, painting diagrams notwithstanding.

 

The other question concerns what Nigel Digby, in his Pre-Grouping Liveries book, calls a 'vestigial black wrapper on the frames below the smokebox' (he's referring to the upper parts of the frames, above the footplate). The easiest way to illustrate this is with a crop from an original GNR postcard (the same picture Nigel uses in his book in fact), where you can see how the smokebox wrapper's black was continued downwards, over the frames:

 

140086900_GNRsmokeboxsaddlelivery(1)D2.jpg.aff45d7681d8488189b60445cafedcf1.jpg

 

While he notes that this was mainly the case on larger and/or tender locos, there's a little ambiguity as to whether it was also employed on a wider range of prototypes and I thought it might have been done on the C2. This was harder to pin down in contemporary B&W photos because of the fairly close rendition of dark brown and black, but I found a handful where it seems to me there is a quite clear difference between the wrapper proper, and the section of the upper frame beneath it, sufficient to establish that it was not done on the C2, i.e. the black stopped at the foot of the smokebox wrapper and the upper frame sections were in the red-and-black lined chocolate:

 

303297193_GNRsmokeboxsaddlelivery(2)C2.jpg.f4a57f89c6b04863f87ef5a13cc5ce93.jpg

 

948428887_GNRsmokeboxsaddlelivery(4)C2.jpg.ffe89e77a1a847e467d96ecc67eafc7b.jpg

 

So, there we are: two small but prominent livery questions settled :read:...

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Well researched Chas

 

Regards

Sherlock:)

 

PS I suppose the lining on the front of the tanks is laid out in such a way as to avoid the steps. That might be why it is different between the two photos.

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7 hours ago, Jon4470 said:

Well researched Chas

 

Regards

Sherlock:)

 

PS I suppose the lining on the front of the tanks is laid out in such a way as to avoid the steps. That might be why it is different between the two photos.

Thanks Jon - and well spotted: you're right that the different step alignment has to be accommodated. I'll also have to accommodate the vertical handrails, which will be fun (:rolleyes:).

 

Regards,

Watson :D

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