Jump to content
 

Recommended Posts

  • RMweb Premium

Well, my first attempt at full brake gear - some compromises, some inaccuracies but I had great fun doing it :D. Close inspection reveals various faults, but from normal viewing distance it looks considerably better than the very sparse versions I've done previously:

 

748542900_DSGNROCT20200606(15).jpg.631204cc8e712988049410ca3167ca85.jpg

 

IMG_4269.jpg.9a1ce824bbbd0702a3346a2b6a97aea5.jpg

 

1555837001_DSGNROCT20200606(16).jpg.d5650b84e2e8c68434d78f7a68c680a8.jpg

 

IMG_4277.JPG.16e27bbf8c9d7f484ddbad1d13e4c304.JPG

 

Wheels are Wizard Models 14mm Mansells; I'm not entirely convinced that even with careful efforts to protect them from flux and the after-effects of repeated washing, they'll come through the process looking - and running - as good as when new, but it'll be interesting to find out.

I was very pleased to be able to preserve the full extent of the rocking W-iron's movement, by leaving that lever loose on its hanger at that end, where the part joined to it now acts as a centralising spring on the rocking wheels :good_mini:.

Edited by Chas Levin
  • Like 3
  • Craftsmanship/clever 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
On 07/06/2020 at 12:10, Paul Cram said:

I solder all my white metal axleboxes to brass W irons using 145 solder. I carry the solder to the W iron and let it flow. I try noy to touch the white metal casting but allow the flux to draw the solder under it.

 

Thanks Paul; do you find that 145 degree solder bonds to the whitemetal well? I read - when I first started metal kit building - that you had to stick to 70 degree for whitemetal and 145 for brass because neither type would work with the 'wrong' metal, so until this kit I've always done so. But in building this wagon I seem to have disproved that rule as there are now areas where both solder types are on both metals, such as the boxes and W-irons. With them, I actually did it by tinning the brass with 145 and fixing the boxes with 70 (and as both you and Jonathan W say, with sufficient flux the solder wicks under and around the boxes very easily), but it evidently works well with either solder type.

I wonder why there's the idea around that you can't mix solder and metal types? Clearly an iron hot enough for 145 is far more likely to damage WM castings, but aside from that, adherence doesn't seem to be a problem...:scratchhead:

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

I have settled on using "woods metal" - sticks to both nicely. However you have to be very cautious with it as it contains cadmium. However I have tried several low-melt solders and woods metal has given by far the best result.

  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
11 hours ago, Paul Cram said:

70 degree solder wont adhere to brass which is why it needs tinning with 145. 145 will adhere to whitemetal its more about avoiding melting the casting.  I don't touch the casting with the iron and use a standard 25 watt iron.

 

Ahh: now I think about it more carefully, I think in fact what I have is various places where 145 is on brass and WM and those places where 70 is on brass, it's pre-tinned, so that makes sense.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
8 hours ago, Bucoops said:

I have settled on using "woods metal" - sticks to both nicely. However you have to be very cautious with it as it contains cadmium. However I have tried several low-melt solders and woods metal has given by far the best result.

 

I was reading up about Woods Metal a few weeks ago, with a view to using it as ballast: I'm going to build my first etched brass loco soon and I thought it might be a good way to add ballast in inaccessible places, pouring it in while it's in a molten state. Anyone tried this? I was looking for substitutes for lead, having read a few horror stories of lead expanding over time and splitting its brass enclosures, such as loco side tanks...:(

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Further progress on the OCT: axleboxes, shackles, label clips, lamp brackets (with thanks again to all who've provided advice on the correct positioning of some of those items and on mixed metal soldering) - in fact, I'm pretty much there and after a last look over and any necessary tidying tomorrow (including that nasty solder blob over the upper step that I didn't spot until I looked at these photos!), out will come the primer...

 

634785625_DSGNROCT20200606(17).jpg.a4b689e876e6ac0da595b199cc790415.jpg

IMG_4298.jpg.5e4045c148dc5a47e27bc6c7f8c5edf5.jpg

 

985569485_DSGNROCT20200606(18).jpg.d479684c643e11c88561aab4bb36974f.jpg

IMG_4300.jpg.b79ab36a59ebec3326ae0705474841d1.jpg

 

So pleased to have got used to soldering WM to brass; I should think shares in Araldite will drop substantially, once news of this gets out...:lol:

Edited by Chas Levin
  • Like 6
  • Craftsmanship/clever 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
11 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

 

I was reading up about Woods Metal a few weeks ago, with a view to using it as ballast: I'm going to build my first etched brass loco soon and I thought it might be a good way to add ballast in inaccessible places, pouring it in while it's in a molten state. Anyone tried this? I was looking for substitutes for lead, having read a few horror stories of lead expanding over time and splitting its brass enclosures, such as loco side tanks...:(

 

Could work - it's pretty heavy. Not the cheapest however so there's that to weigh up (tee hee).

  • Funny 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

While the GNR OCT's primer dries, I've made a start on the next build, a Falcon Brass 5T GNR Fish Van:

 

1657853736_FalconFish20200611(1).jpg.0e041e77c8db6ed8a01a4dfddf15aea8.jpg

1601836419_FalconFish4302-crop.jpg.4c975affeba48240a2724126d95a4413.jpg

 

2137138925_FalconFish20200611(2).jpg.7ad56e6f4dc54acd78e8b951d70c932d.jpg

768677498_FalconFish4303-crop.jpg.eede57bbca4ff4679a7173dc7f4a18ab.jpg

 

Beautiful looking etch and very pleased to find a ready rolled brass roof. Full marks too on the documentation, very comprehensive, plus crisp looking WM castings: lovely :)

 

And some of those etched numbered pieces might come in handy for station platform signs too... :good_mini:

Edited by Chas Levin
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
18 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

I've made a start on the next build, a Falcon Brass 5T GNR Fish Van:

 

Good luck with that one, I was going to buy one a while ago but was warned that there are a few 'issues' with it.  I think they might be related to the fold up body.

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I was going to say I've built one of those, but it was the D & S version.

 

spacer.png

 

Be prepared to dump the W-iron/solebar arrangement very quickly as it won't be anywhere near the right height.   During the brief time Dart castings sold these they put the MJT W irons in with the kit.

 

 

  • Like 2
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
5 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

Good luck with that one, I was going to buy one a while ago but was warned that there are a few 'issues' with it.  I think they might be related to the fold up body.

 

 

At first sight I thought 'great, a fold-up body, that should speed things up' but then on a quick scan of the instructions it mentions detaching the sides if you want to build them scale depth so I did begin to wonder if it might not be so straightforward. But, the system for creating the sides' depths sounds interesting, depending on inserting 1mm brass bar between the actual sides and the louvre layers. I don't doubt it'll be fiddly but it's different to anything else I've built to date and it might result in quite a convincing look...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Chas Levin said:

 

At first sight I thought 'great, a fold-up body, that should speed things up' but then on a quick scan of the instructions it mentions detaching the sides if you want to build them scale depth so I did begin to wonder if it might not be so straightforward. But, the system for creating the sides' depths sounds interesting, depending on inserting 1mm brass bar between the actual sides and the louvre layers. I don't doubt it'll be fiddly but it's different to anything else I've built to date and it might result in quite a convincing look...

This etching looks very similar to the Jidenco L&YR fish van, which was my first attempt at an etched kit some 40 years ago. The real conundrum is that the side and end elevations, both inner and overlay, are all etched to the overall length of the drawn elevations, and the floor is also to the same dimensions. I didn't have the benefit of sensible instructions  but rapidly concluded that it wouldn't work as a fold-up, and decided to cut the sides away from the floor, but I never really resolved how to cure the corner mismatch. Good luck!

  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
On 12/06/2020 at 16:58, jwealleans said:

I was going to say I've built one of those, but it was the D & S version.

 

spacer.png

 

Be prepared to dump the W-iron/solebar arrangement very quickly as it won't be anywhere near the right height.   During the brief time Dart castings sold these they put the MJT W irons in with the kit.

 

 

 

Beautiful looking van, Jonathan :). I have a couple of the D&S ones in my stash, one Fish and one Fruit & Perishables. The reason I pulled this Falcon one out to make next is - don't laugh - because it comes in quite a big box so it was taking up a disproportionate amount of room, unlike the D&S ones which are in small plastic bags :rolleyes:.

There's something very attractive and very Victorian or Edwardian looking about clerestory vans I think, perhaps even more so than clerestory coaches...

Yes, the W-iron/solebar area is a part of the build I spotted in my initial brief walk through the instructions that looks like it will take some thought. I didn't realise it might be effectively unworkable though!

The instructions with this kit are somewhat different to the D&S ones I've read, which appear at first to be worryingly brief, but which repay careful study and - in the case of the ones I've so far built - actually turn out to contain everything essential (with the occasional recourse to help from other modellers on things like brake rigging^_^). With this kit, they seem to be so detailed that there is almost too much information!

Are Falcon still in business? I googled a bit but there seems to be some conflicting info...

 

Meanwhile, here's the D&S GNR OCT with its below-solebar areas in Halfords Matt Black:

 

158870803_DSGNROCT20200606(23).jpg.0c12271d9fdad05f4dc7c6c36807860e.jpg

1173384381_GNR_OCT_black_u_frame_1106(2).jpg.83da68d5e8f88fdde028f98d91394131.jpg

 

1708730596_DSGNROCT20200606(22).jpg.bc0ec24b52d53e0c3a54a469d06b8671.jpg

145600046_GNR_OCT_black_u_frame_1106(3).jpg.28ef0a63811b19c4b6cf62ed2eb97f9e.jpg

Edited by Chas Levin
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
49 minutes ago, Nick Holliday said:

This etching looks very similar to the Jidenco L&YR fish van, which was my first attempt at an etched kit some 40 years ago. The real conundrum is that the side and end elevations, both inner and overlay, are all etched to the overall length of the drawn elevations, and the floor is also to the same dimensions. I didn't have the benefit of sensible instructions  but rapidly concluded that it wouldn't work as a fold-up, and decided to cut the sides away from the floor, but I never really resolved how to cure the corner mismatch. Good luck!

 

Thanks Nick! I'm going to have to detach the sides anyway, because you have to do that to build them with scale thickness using the brass square-section rodding between the two layers. But I hadn't spotted the length issue, so forewarned is forearmed :good_mini:.

 

Did you complete the Jidenco kit and if so, what did you do about the mismatch in the end?

Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

 

Thanks Nick! I'm going to have to detach the sides anyway, because you have to do that to build them with scale thickness using the brass square-section rodding between the two layers. But I hadn't spotted the length issue, so forewarned is forearmed :good_mini:.

 

Did you complete the Jidenco kit and if so, what did you do about the mismatch in the end?

i'm afraid I never did get round to finishing it. When I started there were very few affordable etched kits around, and I had even fewer skills, since then I have acquired many more, more-buildable ones, and it has sat on the back burner since!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
On 13/06/2020 at 05:05, Nick Holliday said:

i'm afraid I never did get round to finishing it. When I started there were very few affordable etched kits around, and I had even fewer skills, since then I have acquired many more, more-buildable ones, and it has sat on the back burner since!

 

Perhaps I could find a solution we could both use :). Not sure whether you mean by it being 'on the back burner' that you'd consider it worth having another go at nowadays, mind you? I suspect I'll resort to some sort of bodge involving shortening the sides, though I'm guessing you may have tried and rejected that and there are other issues with doing that which I'll find out as I plunge further in...

 

In any event, there'll be a slight delay on this one because they don't actually provide the necessary brass bar in the kit for scale thickness sides. At the foot of the first page of instructions there's a small handwritten note that the 1mm x 1mm bar necessary for doing this isn't included in the kit. Having gone to the trouble of including the 1.5mm x 1.5mm bar for forming the tapered end ribs, I couldn't help wondering why they didn't throw in the other size bar pieces too; perhaps as not everyone fancied the scale thickness mod, that smaller bar would be wasted in some cases.

Edited by Chas Levin
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Today's work on the GNR OCT, showing 4 stages of the wooden deck - first with patches of Phoenix Precision Golden Teak applied over a base coat of their BR Signal Yellow ( the yellow's a bit bright for this job but it doesn't get used much otherwise):

 

1253317032_DSGNROCT20200606(33).jpg.4cb77417374f6f6b803d1b2a48d1e23d.jpg

925448809_GNR_OCT_painttransfers_1506(1).jpg.ea0b91d5b1c4ab520c2f03685710cd0d.jpg

 

Next with a thinned down and fairly dry-brushed overcoat of PP Coach Teak; I'm not actually aiming for teak as the final look, it's just having these colours to hand makes them easy choices for the end result of fairly unidentifiable worn and dirty wood:

 

481983264_DSGNROCT20200606(32).jpg.b7e8280c927a38a6d6f4744e6ff82447.jpg

376394118_GNR_OCT_painttransfers_1506(2).jpg.b9cb97c06fd829bf9a9333e88ea14a44.jpg

 

Next a very thinned down wash of mixed Humbrol grey with a drop of matt black:

 

1122056472_DSGNROCT20200606(31).jpg.1a3fe070b3358be716134d1c802c8352.jpg

335618223_GNR_OCT_painttransfers_1506(3).jpg.bbe9da2fd163b1df35dfa70fac2fa383.jpg

 

Then, a coat of Ronseal Oak varnish - I think it'll probably need at least one more of those:

 

1516366414_DSGNROCT20200606(30).jpg.995be5bba5aa41dd84710a0584e700c7.jpg

1902961890_GNR_OCT_painttransfers_1506(4).jpg.48b742849f264a99463f3cabb62f7a32.jpg

 

It has also acquired two coats of PP GNR Freight Brown on the ends, sides, sole bars and buffer shanks, plus most of the transfers, the rest tomorrow all being well :).

Edited by Chas Levin
  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

And here's the OCT with the correct GNR livery transfers! (:blush:):

 

2098796950_DSGNROCT20200606(25).jpg.01637e295790d32546d46899eb2b1beb.jpg

49781566_GNROCTinNPCSlivery1606.jpg.9d231c2a13c227d6a432b98485122617.jpg

 

Through posting a question over on the LNER Info Forum about load and tare weights I discovered (thanks to some very helpful replies: thanks gents!) that OCTs were classed as NPCS, which I didn't know (makes sense though: the Carriage Trade wouldn't have wanted to arrive at their destination without their carriages...). 

Bodywork paint is Phoenix Precision's GNR Freight Brown, transfers are from Steam and Things and some very fiddly cut-&-shuts from an HMRS pre-grouping wagon sheet.

Edited by Chas Levin
  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Brass section has arrived for the Falcon GNR Fish van sides, so the question of side lengths can be further investigated...

 

1590768486_FalconFish20200619(1).jpg.caaeef7b713f2b2923515ac95cb3f175.jpg

257117663_FalconGNR5TonFish20200619.jpg.b672614d794d663cba17b9a59589d7ad.jpg

 

And the GNR OCT is now finished, other than adding the load, which is on its way in the post. Quite pleased with the wooden decking on this one; I've tried to get closer to a greyish tinge, as per micklner's comments higher up in this thread about the Warflat's wooden decking, and you're right Mick - it does look better:

 

574576783_DSGNROCT20200606(29).jpg.83e7a99becee23fe92effbec28bf44da.jpg

IMG_4350.jpg.de58485e27578ce56cceb8c5aa43c9ae.jpg

 

999657170_DSGNROCT20200606(28).jpg.d0a39a6470c730ab69dff014d5233f89.jpg

IMG_4351.jpg.14cba512488e71c28e47c3a9c8810e61.jpg

 

 

Edited by Chas Levin
  • Like 6
  • Craftsmanship/clever 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Not a huge amount of progress over the weekend, but Fish Van buffer beams now joined to ends:

 

2072287314_FalconFish20200621(2).jpg.920e9ceee1895acf969f28977cd4f38e.jpg

440065256_FalconFish2106-2.jpg.3cf44b5b227bfa4598c749c316f5cbde.jpg

The beams come with three identical sized holes, about 1mm: two are drilled out for the buffers, but I don't quite understand why the central one - for the coupling hook - is a 1mm circular hole too?

 

I've also started an Airfix LNER Brake Van on The Downstairs Tray (pics to follow). I expect lots of others on here find that with soldering and metalwork activities necessarily taking place at a workbench and most likely in a spare bedroom or loft conversion, time spent with family on the sofa in front of the TV of an evening cannot easily be combined with modelling work... unless some sort of two-tier system is arranged :good_mini:! So now, I'll generally have a metal kit on the go upstairs, and something that doesn't require soldering / mess / paint on the go on a tray downstairs. A plastic kit, or detailing work on an RTR, perhaps - or the early stages of a metal kit - detaching parts from the fret and cleaning them up, fettling WM parts etc.

Edited by Chas Levin
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Further progress on the Falcon Fish van - here we have the collection of brass rod pieces to go between the two parts of the sides:

 

1967262316_FalconFish20200624(1).jpg.f0fc0c64118f02b421b418954bd3c156.jpg

181788397_Falcon_Fish_2406(1).jpg.3e3e4d5d757865f66268bbaf7bbbd717.jpg

 

And here we have the outer layer with those pieces in place; apologies for the hasty and untidy soldering - it won't be seen once it's assembled and I didn't want to take too long over it:

 

2044960542_FalconFish20200624(2).jpg.0e8f9c40cafd467b8d50b881f62841a2.jpg

329596293_Falcon_Fish_2406(2).jpg.70e0a10caa93f3aedaa3f6a17603e7b4.jpg

 

Here's a look at how they'll look with the rear layer in place:

 

1110221692_FalconFish20200624(3).jpg.1657586f01ec5b7c0e855ef23a0956ff.jpg

256156543_Falcon_Fish_2406(3).jpg.7cb4dd111e7c8745ac4a9cc056077e14.jpg

 

And here's a quick trial fit on the body:

 

334163821_FalconFish20200624(4).jpg.eae2351cd4ce18f2a84c524e81fd0a7c.jpg

1496299777_Falcon_Fish_2406(4).jpg.a3f95703314f9af3a970e9db9932ccee.jpg

 

I know this kit has its issues, but I think it might look quite good when it's finished. All those pieces were time consuming and fiddly, but the effect is pleasing...

Edited by Chas Levin
  • Like 4
  • Craftsmanship/clever 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

The sides are now together for the Falcon Fish van:

 

853855858_FalconFish20200626(1).jpg.5120989599bdbfb303c12c3f0bc190b6.jpg

347285482_Falcon_Fish_2606(1).jpg.b129da35136221dd37b8787544d95c3e.jpg

 

I was a little enthusiastic sweating the back on, but after some cleaning up and under primer and paint I think it'll look fine.

 

And here's the GNR OCT at last, with its load:

1867848020_DSGNROCT20200606(34).jpg.6e58a9d11f9c7bd31db81446cd037824.jpg

451127746_GNR_OCT__load_2606(2).jpg.dbf201e1e1dfca3b1f8e1eb6a6fbbbae.jpg

 

479866522_DSGNROCT20200606(35).jpg.806527ebd1385cbacc02c287029d925d.jpg

1553854729_GNR_OCT__load_2606(3).jpg.0a344e3e6d7b85c5a46f4c11ce1056a4.jpg

 

687731149_DSGNROCT20200606(36).jpg.37387ef5c57268ef7fc0e652cd9bc7cc.jpg

1507457882_GNR_OCT__load_2606(1).jpg.14bb054e46d3a3f3c43ae18e4afee5c9.jpg

 

I'm a little more confident of the suitability of the load - a very nicely done Oxford Diecast - this time (unlike the Implement wagon!). There's still a bit of a 'time drift', as the Bentley 4 1/2 Litre first appeared in this form in 1927, but if we imagine that a GNR OCT might still be awaiting it's update to LNER livery in that year, it's certainly the sort of upmarket model that might be delivered, brand new, to its new owner in this way :). Gorgeous cars...

Edited by Chas Levin
  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...