East Barnet Joint Stock - a workbench

[brossard]

I agree, little details picked out in white or red as appropriate can pop.  Not just the brake handles but lamp brackets.  Vacuum pipes, in BR times anyway, were red (vac braked) or white (through piped).

 

All nice details to add, only to be obscured by the weathering.

 

John

[Portchullin Tatty]

Well done for the fish van; the Jidenco kits are not easy at all.

 

This is what mine looks like.  Missing the R by the look of it and I must do something about all the dust on the roof!  Mind you, it will be 40 years old by now; agghhh where does time go?

 

[Chas Levin]

1 hour ago, Portchullin Tatty said:

Well done for the fish van; the Jidenco kits are not easy at all.

 

This is what mine looks like.  Missing the R by the look of it and I must do something about all the dust on the roof!  Mind you, it will be 40 years old by now; agghhh where does time go?

 

 

Very nice van Mark, thank you for showing it  - I hope the missing 'R' turns up. I do like the look of the GNR livery and I'm very interested to see this example as the only other photos I've seen of completed kits of these vans have been in LNER livery. The reason I'm doing this first one in LNER too is that I plan to build another one which will be in GN livery and I didn't want to have two identical ones. 

I would have to agree it hasn't been an easy build but I enjoy a challenge... Whilst figuring out various aspects early on, I compared the parts with the D&S version I have in my to-build pile and thought yet again how extremely well designed and well made D&S kits are - I don't mean that disrespectfully to Jidenco/Falcon, just in praise of D&S!

I'm not complaining though - this one has turned out very nicely. I'm not so worried about the height any more either, since comparing it with some other vans: it is definitely slightly over the height as shown in diagram form, but close enough to various other vans that it doesn't look odd in traffic.

Do you mean that your kit was 40 years old, or that you built it 40 years ago?

[Chas Levin]

2 hours ago, brossard said:

I agree, little details picked out in white or red as appropriate can pop.  Not just the brake handles but lamp brackets.  Vacuum pipes, in BR times anyway, were red (vac braked) or white (through piped).

 

All nice details to add, only to be obscured by the weathering.

 

John

 

Ahh - red vac pipes! I love the look of those, but not right for the majority of things I'm building or plan to build currently, sadly. What colours can we do lamp brackets in then? The only colour I've seen them in on pre-war LNER and on pre-grouping is black: have I missed a trick?

[brossard]

I paint them white on my BR stock.  You'll have to have a look round for grouping.  Could be a war thing again.

 

John

[Compound2632]

Leafing through the GN chapter of P. Tatlow, LNER Wagons Vol. 1 (Wild Swan, 2005), I didn't see a single white brake lever. The photos are all GN or large NE - pre 1936 (?) livery.

  

On 15/07/2020 at 16:54, brossard said:

I was just brought to book when I painted a MR wagon brake handle white - wrong.

 

Politely intended as a piece of prototype information. Apologies if it came over wrongly.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Compound2632

[brossard]

No Stephen, my knowledge of pre-grouping is thin so appreciate the advice.   I did this wagon (and two more are in the paint shop) for a friend.

 

Seems to confirm that white details were a later innovation. 

 

John

[Portchullin Tatty]

On 15/07/2020 at 23:23, Chas Levin said:

 

Do you mean that your kit was 40 years old, or that you built it 40 years ago?

 

Both!

 

It was one of the first P4 models I built so I would have just been a teenager!  Where does time go?

[Chas Levin]

22 hours ago, Portchullin Tatty said:

 

Both!

 

It was one of the first P4 models I built so I would have just been a teenager!  Where does time go?

Quite - where does it go indeed? I hadn't discovered railway kits in those days - I was busy making Airfix ones and watching RTR railway traffic on the layout my dad had built. That's quite an early start you had with a soldering iron: my dad was an electrical engineer and there was a definite understanding that 'only grownups' could use anything so dangerous . Looking back now, I'd say he was somewhat over-cautious for the times - his attitude would be far more in tune with today's H&S culture, wouldn't it?

[Chas Levin]

The Falcon 5 Ton GNR Fish vans finished - well, bar the couplings, but I thought I'd take the final pictures before adding them, as no-one (including me) thinks tension locks - even narrow ones - improve the look:

 

 

I must say, for a not very well regarded kit that certainly has it's issues, I'm very pleased with the way its turned out, especially the scale thickness representation of the sides. Transfers are HMRS, wagon plates are NBR Developments, black areas are Halfords matt, the roof is Railmatch matt varnished Halfords primer and the red oxide is my first use of Phoenix Precision's LNER freight oxide. It's noticeably more red in appearance than the Railmatch, which has a slightly browner look, but a little variation in hue is no bad thing as there was such variation in reality. It may also be due to my using red primer for the second primer coat so I might try staying with grey for the next one. It runs beautifully in spite of being fully rigid and if anyone has one of these Falcon or Jidenco kits in their pile and is hesitating, I would say go for it .

 

Meanwhile, the Airfix/Dapol brake has acquired the rest of its bits and pieces:

A little more tweaking of pickups and it'll be ready for painting; the roof will stay off to allow for glazing. The piece of red cotton looped round one end is a makeshift coupling, to allow it to run behind a loco for test purposes.

 

I'm not great at working on more than one project at the same time, but I've evolved a method to allow for integration with family time. Some projects - metal kits for instance - demand most of their time be spent at my work area, with soldering iron access and a multitude of tools, full size magnifier lamp and a steady, flat, unmoving surface, so they can't be worked on whilst also sitting on the sofa of an evening, watching TV. I therefore set up a work tray, with duplicates of small essential tools and a mini magnifier lamp, so a glued plastic project such as this one can then be combined with being a bit more sociable. Plus of course the early stages of an etched kit - cutting, filing, test-fitting and so forth - are fairly sofa-friendly, and whitemetal kits' early stages - cleaning up castings, test-fitting and so forth - equally so. And reading and research of course - especially if the evening's TV choices are more to my wife's liking than mine....

 

Do other people do this sort of thing too? I'm sure I'm not the only modeller who has to keep a tight rein on time spent in the workshop... 

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Chas Levin

[chris p bacon]

2 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Do other people do this sort of thing too?

I have a small workbench behind the sofa facing the TV, it's got everything there and apart from spraying* I'm able to do most things 

 

 

*apparently there is an issue with spraying GNR loco green in the living room........I think it's the noise of the compressor..

[Chas Levin]

Nice idea... but our sofa's up against the wall so I can't quite do that!

[Chas Levin]

Some brake rigging added to the Dapol brake van today, just enough to give the appearance as it goes by:

 

And so to the next metal-based project... which was scheduled to be my first etched loco kit, a London Road Models LNER C12. I'm still awaiting one or two bits and pieces however, and I also want to do a little more reading up about adding weight. The first loco I built (shown further up this thread) was a whitemetal one, the DJH LNER J9/10 where - being a WM kit - there's no problem about weight, but clearly an etched kit is an entirely different proposition...

 

So in the meantime, a quick wagon, and an opportunity to sample the wares of another manufacturer for the first time:

 

I saw the original version of this kit - Wills I think - on Ebay one day and looked up the initials APOC, which stand for the Anglo Persian Oil Company, formed in 1908 for purposes that should be obvious from the name. I know there are various historical and political associations and it can be a touchy subject, but I still think there's something very old-fashioned, very nineteenth century about the name - in fact the name Persia conjures up all sorts of far more ancient romantic associations in my mind, and I like having wagons running by that bring different images or memories to mind, so when I found it in South Eastern Finecast's current range it was an immediate purchase. It's also a little unusual looking which is satisfying. The tankers - of which only about half a dozen were built apparently - date from 1927, which fits my core era perfectly well.

Impressions so far? Castings seem crisp, some cleaning up to do but that's no problem. Instructions are pretty brief but then there's not much needed. They note the tight clearance between the insides of the solebars, necessitating short axles, so we'll have to see what can be done there, also allowing for brass bearings; some plain white lettering transfers are on the way.

The livery is noted as black everywhere, with the tanks in red oxide. I'll want to spray the black using Halfords Matt Black (so easy to use and gives such an excellent finish, though I do need to work on not coating too thickly) so I shall try and construct it so that the tanks are a separate unit for painting purposes, to be fixed in place afterwards.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Chas Levin]

The brake van was primed today, and then had the lower parts done in Halfords' trusty matt black - and I'm getting better at refraining from putting it on too thickly:

 

 

 

In my keenness to whip out the rattle cans however I forgot about the safety bars; they're something I was previously unaware of - you generally only see them as they are on this model, moulded in place folded down, out of use, against the planking. I recently read on a thread about brake vans however that modelling a running van without them up and in use is very unrealistic and thought I'd add them in. It's not too late, though it would have been much easier earlier on.

I also noticed that the roof has an unfortunate twist to it, so I'll have a go at straightening it in hot water before it gets primed...

Edited May 5, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Chas Levin]

The brake van is nearing completion, most painting done, glazed too - transfers tomorrow, all being well:

 

 

The circular moulding marks on the inner veranda walls don't look quite so prominent in reality...

 

Meanwhile, the joints between solebars and buffer beams on the APOC tank wagon have an arrangement whereby a small tubular moulding slides into a short round cavity:

 

The slight over sizing of both parts means some careful removal of material is needed and both male and female parts are awkward to work on, with the added danger that removing too much material would render the joints too loose; getting there though:

 

One advantage of this system is that the four part frame can be erected and dismantled prior to soldering, so that wheelsets and bearings can be test fitted. You'll see from the photo that the holes for bearings are somewhat oversized; I'm contemplating the best way to centre the bearings (top hat seem best as they have the largest volume), and wondering about tinning the bearings with 145, putting a small amount of 70 into the holes, popping a bearing in and lightly touching with the iron, so that the 70 solder melts underneath the bearing and fills the gap around it, centering it at the same time. One concern though is that the holes into the axleboxes are quite deep so the bottom of the hole - which is the inside of the axlebox face - is very thin and possibly liable to melt too. The need to do the job with the axlebox face down (so that the molten 70 solder spreads evenly) means I wouldn't be able to see what was happening to it on the outside... though that might also make it possible to position some sort of heatsink arrangement in contact with the outer face...

Edited May 5, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Chas Levin]

The bearing soldering method worked a treat, after also filing down the raised rims of the holes in the solebar a little:

 

And we're on the way:

 

The brake van has the first side of transfers drying over night, photos to follow. I know it may seem over cautious, but I always do one side's transfers and then leave the vehicle on its side overnight (or held in some way horizontally, if I don't want it to rest on its side), so that the transfers can fully dry and bed down under gravity, before doing the other side and giving that 24 hours horizontally too, and then varnishing. It probably doesn't make much difference and it does mean the doing transfers becomes a three day process, but if I didn't use a belt and braces, how would my trousers stay up?

Edited May 5, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Chas Levin]

The Dapol brake is nearing completion - transfers on (from Old Time Workshop, intended for the Parkside kit) and some tidying up inside, with the DCC Concepts LED lamp mounted, though its wires still need to be hidden (and the roof is just perched):

 

The SEF APOC tank wagon has had all the small soldering done and is ready for the final assembly:

 

One end is on each tank, which can be done from the inside once the rim has been tinned with 145, and then a thin seam of 70 added around the outside of the joint to fill it, filing and cleaning up afterwards. Not possible with the other end of course, but as they'll be joined in the middle I'm assuming I can get away with just the seaming the outer edge...

Edited May 5, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Chas Levin]

And there we are - didn't take long:

 

I spent a fruitless half hour trying to straighten an interesting multi-plane twist in the main underframe piece, before realising that provided the whole thing was assembled on plate glass and soldered with all wheels touching, it wouldn't be a problem - or even visible, which turned out to the case.

I know it has chunky brake gear, less than finely shaped buffers and so forth, but I think it's cute, and it runs very nicely!

Edited May 5, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Chas Levin]

The Dapol (Airfix) Brake Van is finished; I know it's not the most prototypical Toad but I think it looks very nice as a 'layout' vehicle and it didn't take too long, even with the LED lamp:

 

The guard by the way is a Modelu figure and the wagon plate is from NBR 4mm Developments.

Next up I think for a non-metal project, a Bill Bedford resin kit of a GNR D.129 Composite...

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Chas Levin]

Well, my plan to keep the tanks as a separately mounted unit for painting purposes foundered as soon as I took a closer look at the various pipes and other gubbins they need to have connected to them and realised that they'll need to be fixed in place as per the instructions:

 

There's quite an old thread headed "A.P.O.C. tank wagon" here on RMWeb which had some interesting details, plus a link to some excellent detailed photos from Paul Bartlett's enormously helpful site (thans Paul, should you happen to read this!). The photos make clear what happens with piping, taps etc. It's only approximated by the kit as supplied and I'd wondered how the tanks were filled or emptied... 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Chas Levin]

So, this is where the basic kit gets you:

 

 

 

Last stage will be to add the pipework to the tank ends, plus what appear from photographs to be taps beneath the tanks, another pair of short horizontal bars between the outer and inner support beams each side, and whatever else I can see...

The joints between the brass tank bodies and their whitemetal ends (especially the righthand end of the lefthand one) look rather bumpy in these pictures, but they're pretty smooth in reality - photos are a great way to see these details in an ongoing project...

Edited May 5, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Chas Levin]

And here it is with some more detail added, mainly taps'n'straps:

 

I found myself wishing midway through that I'd done the strapping in brass as it would have looked better, been easier to put in place and been stronger for future handling purposes. Ah, what we'd do differently with hindsight. Never mind - a lesson learned for the future and I should be able to get away with it here. Judicious strengthening in out of sight places tomorrow should help. Then, just the end pipework to do I think .

 

Meanwhile on the non-soldering front, the next project has been unboxed:

 

Very interested to see how this resin is to work with and to see how it finishes - I've read various others' threads and see pictures but never seen or handled one in person, let alone built one. 

Clearly one of the first jobs is going to be the painting of that wonderful looking interior, so a little research on primer types is in order.

I've been using TrainTech auto lighting strips for a while now and in order to avoid having to dismantle the coach to change batteries I've (fairly) discreetly added a coin cell holder, riding horizontally, underneath several Hornby Gresleys. The relatively sparse underframe detail and the 61'-plus length of these makes it quite practical. When faced with the D&S 46' ECJS Luggage Brake, I still managed it by changing the mounting plane of the cell holder from horizontal to vertical, where the nearly windowless brake carriage hid the holder, protruding up into the interior.

Here, however, I'm not sure that either solution will work... unless I could mount it vertically, going up into the (windowless) guard's compartment, or perhaps up into the pair of toilets, where there are windows but they'll be frosted...? Hm....

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Chas Levin]

Detailing and cleaning up pretty much done on the APOC tank wagon; if the weather permits, priming tomorrow...

Edited May 5, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Chas Levin]

And the weather did indeed permit:

 

The powdery look of the tank undersides doesn't look anywhere near as prominent in real life .

As to final colours, having intended to go with the red-brown tanks / black everywhere else suggested in the SE Finecast instructions, I'm inclining now towards a simple all-over black. I can't find another example online of this or any similar tank wagon with the suggested colour scheme, the majority being all black. And having added the securing bands (which were not part of the kit), I realised they throw up a colour question of their own: should they be red-brown too, or black? With the tanks red-brown, I wasn't happy with either option... whereas black all over should look perfectly suitable .

It's had a coat already, but will have to wait a couple of days for some touching in of awkward underframe areas...

Edited May 5, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Chas Levin]

Yep: all black was the right choice:

 

Some of the detail is a little less delicate than I would have liked, but the kit itself is a little thick so it doesn't look too out of place. The bottoms of the straps are a case in point: the combination of initial fixing with superglue, followed by araldite reinforcement has happily resulted in what seem to be fairly strong fixings, but at the expense of a slim profile. Well, as I said earlier, lesson learned there and next time I'll fabricate such things from brass...

Edited May 5, 2022 by Chas Levin