Assigning addresses using Programming button on the ESU switch Pilot Servo

[Anthony Ashley]

This is a really stupid question but I have looked in the ESU Switch Pilot Servo manual and on line for about 4 hours and can not find an answer.

 

I am trying to assign the point to the relevant point for each decoder pin. The manual says to hit the programming button, wait for the initial blink and then activate the relevant switch on your ESU train controller. I have done that for pin one but the decoder then seem to go inactive unless you hit the same button, but surely you are reactivating the first pin again.

 

I have also modified the 1st servo position and speed so am aware of the second blinking  sequence on the LED. Adjusting the individual servos is easy as they are in sequence and you have to cycle through each to finish the process for variation of the servos. I can see no such sequence for programming the addresses to the pins, using the buttons on the Switch Pilot Servo. 

 

How do you assign the 2, 3 and 4th pin on the decoder to a point????

 

I am obviously missing something really obvious but can not see it. Can anyone help please!!!

 

Regards,

 

Anthony Ashley

 

 

  

Edited May 3, 2020 by Anthony Ashley

[Tony Cane]

The addresses are assigned in blocks of 4, if the first pin is set to address 1 then the addresses 2 to 4 are then assigned automatically.

You cannot for example set a set of four actuators on one module to addresses 6 to 9. The base address of each block of four is either 1 or 1+ X*4, i.e.  5, 9, 13  etc.

[JimFin]

I had a related but equally frustrating experience with the Switch Pilot module for ESU which I thought worth sharing here.  The Switch Pilot has 4 conventional outputs and 2 further servo outputs.

 

As above, outputs 1 to 4 (or multiples) are set in the same way, use the programming button to enter programming mode and assign the first value you want from your controller, the others follow automatically, for output 1 to 4 - but not the 2 servo outputs...... 

 

What you have to do to activate the servo outputs is press and hold the programming button until you get to a second set of rapid flashes and then assign the first value you want to the servo outputs, following the same rule, must be the first in the 4 sequence i.e. 1, 5, 9, 13 etc. and the servos can now be programmed using CV's for start position, end position and speed of sweep. It does mean there will always be 2 unused values as only the first 2 of the group of 4 can be assigned. 

[Anthony Ashley]

Dear Gentlemen,

 

I have not made myself clear but please read carefully the question. I have a SWITCH PILOT SERVO and I want to assign 4 points, one to each servo using programming button on the Switch Pilot Servo. When you get the first programming blink off the programming button it assigns the allocated point to pin number one. The button then lights up for 2 seconds or so and then goes off. This is in contrast to programming the actual servos using the + and  - buttons because you move through the pins by repeatedly hitting the programming button.

 

Tony  you said "The addresses are assigned in blocks of 4, if the first pin is set to address 1 then the addresses 2 to 4 are then assigned automatically."I am aware that the 4 addresses for accessories are 1-1, 1-2, 1-3 and 1-4 and the programming is done in blocks of 4. I am not using CVs to allocate addresses of the accessories but the buttons on the Switch Pilot Servo. You said addresses 2-4 are assigned automatically. Does this mean that if I press the programming button to get a steady blink (address program mode if you like) to allocate addresses I can allocate pins 1-4 (or the 4 sequential addresses) one after the other by touching the train controller in order to identify each point in sequence. Alternatively does touching the first point in the block of 4 on the train controller automatically activate the 3 points which I have already inserted into the other 3 addresses which are part of the block of 4 and there is no need to further identify these again as a part of the address allocation.  The manual does not seem to cover this in any detail. I think you are probably saying the latter but please confirm.

 

If I have not understood you correctly alternatively: 

So in doing the point assignment of the pins the first time you hit the programming button with the normal blink it programs pin one. If I hit the programming button again getting the same point allocation blink, as opposed to the servo programming ie "a second set of rapid flashes" (used to program servos for degree of movement and speed) does it automatically move onto program the second pin in terms of point allocation. In that case if you made a mistake and wanted to reprogram the first pin you would have to cycle through that first programming blink 4 times. This does not seem to make any sense so we are probably back to one of the 2 optoins the option above. None  of this is in the manual so I am a little confused.

 

I am aware how to program the decoders with the rapid lighting blink as I have fully programmed the first servo. Getting to servo and pins 2, 3 and 4 to allocate the points in the first place is my issue. I am getting a little frustrated as I have spent the day trying to get the decoder to work!!!!!!!!!!

 

Sorry if this appears A little dim.

 

Regards ,

Anthony Ashley

 

 

  

[Tony Cane]

No Problem with further explanation.

You are not alone in finding the accessory programing side of DCC a rather steep learning curve. The typical problem with manuals is that they are written by people who know what they are doing and make assumptions about the end users knowledge.

 

In programming the  by button section of the manual the key section is

 

Should you have programed another turnout instead of the first
one of the group of four the correct group will be automatically
detected and programed.

 

so if you activate and change address 3 while the Switchpilot is in program mode, then the set of four outputs will be assigned to addresses 1 to 4.

 

While, as you say, you are not using CVs a look at what is happen to program the address may make things clearer.

 

Turnout number Address CV1 CV9
1 2 3 4                        1            1     0
5 6 7 8                         2           2     0

 

This is  the top of the table of address allocations. The Address column is the block address which selects the group of four accessory addresses, this is held in CV1 and is the CV that gets change when you operate an accessory while the Switch pilot is in program mode.

The accessory number is used to select the related block address.

 

 

I hope this is of use, and please come back if I can be of any further assistance.

 

[Anthony Ashley]

Tony, 

 

Thanks for the reply. I would still like to clarify what i am doing.

 

This is my process.

 

I have inputted the switches into the  ECoS train controller. so they in a listed within the train controller.  They appear on the tables under the main tabs and then sub tabs. There are 16 boxes on each sub tab or page.  My numbering system for points is to use the main tab number ie all have been 1 so far. Then the sub tab then the  position on the page ie my fist address number was 1101 (main tab 1, sub tab 1 and position 01 out of 16 on the page. Once I get to 1166 I then go to 1201 thru to 16 and then 1301 to 1316 etc, etc . This numbering 

system will allow me to find them on the accessories page under the tab struture.

 

This numbering system will result in the following electronic addresses related to CVs- 1101= 276-1, 1102=276-2, 1103=276-3, 1104=276-4, 1105=277-1.  Once I got through the 1st sub tab and went to sub tab 2 the electronic addresses are  in sequence 1201 = 301-1, 1202=301-2 etc.

 

If I understand you correctly  if you allocate a point from the accessory screen through the use of the Switch Pilot servo programming button it will automatically assign the other 3 servos  and therefore corresponding points that are within the group of 4 electronic addresses. For example looking at the points listed above if I allocate my point 1103, it will recognise the electronic address of 276-3  and the allocated point listed in the ECoS point and automatically allocate the points that have been recorded against 276-1, 276-2 and 276-4. The order of putting the points into the ECoS via the accessory screen and the position on that screen has nothing to do with this recognition process as it is entirely dependent on the ëlectronic address. Given my numbering system nearly all will be in sequence. Can you please confirm if this summary is correct. You could copy this paragraph and comment in red if possible. Thanks for your help again. The manual really assumes a lot of knowledge. 

 

Thanks again for your help. I have recently done some interesting scenery on my layout. It is a lot easier than the electronics!!! You may be interested in my train layout listed at :

 

 

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/71151-north-welsh-coast-railway-welsh-dragon-rail/page/42/

 

Regards,

 

Anthony Ashley

Edited May 3, 2020 by Anthony Ashley

[Tony Cane]

I have never used an ECoS system so the following is based on the information you have sent me.

From this I assume that the number of the point you are try to change the state of is, for example, 1101.

If this is the case then as far as I can see setting the Switch pilot to programming mode and then selecting 1101 and changing the state should then program the Switchpilot with the required block address. The ECoS system will generate the appropriate command, and then further actuation of point 1101 and the next three in sequence should then work as expected.

If this is what you are doing, and it is not working then I am as puzzled as you.

[Anthony Ashley]

Tony,

 

Thanks again for replying. What has happened is that I accessed the address for 1101, programmed that relevant server and then tried to address 1102. I only had server 1101 connected when I did the address for that servo.  I never connected the second servo  at any stage as I was doing them one at a time, and could not understand how to address past the first. What I should have done is connect all 4 servos of the block for the first address program  and it would have addressed all four as you have indicated. The sequence for programming the servos than allows each servo to be individually programmed, but I did not attempt to program servos 1102, 1103 and 1104, as I thought I had not sorted the address problem.

 

The only issue I now have is if the 4 electronic addresses are all programmed at the same time, the train controller would be providing that information to the Switch Pilot Servo decoder. I wonder if each of the 4 servos must be connected to the Switch pilot servo when doing the first step of doing the addresses. I suppose if the address only needs to be programmed into the Switch Pilot Servo to access the relevant pin the servos would not need to be added until you are programming the actual servos for degree of sweep and speed.

 

In summary I am uncertain if the servos need to be connected for the addressing stage of the process as well as the servo programming. I can test this out tomorrow.

 

Your explanations have been of great assistance and I clearly have a much better understanding of the process. I was certainly getting very frustrated as I spent hours trying to work out how to address the second servo, when I had already done so.  I do need to ensure that when programming each switch pilot servo I have the electronic block of 4 servos attached rather than a sequence of 4 boxes in the accessories tab, Usually they are the same but I have varied the position of a few in the tabs.  I hope this explains the problem I was having. 

 

Regards,

 

Anthony Ashley

 

   

[JimFin]

49 minutes ago, Anthony Ashley said:

In summary I am uncertain if the servos need to be connected for the addressing stage of the process as well as the servo programming. I can test this out tomorrow.

  

No need to have them all connected at the addressing stage, you can add them and program later.

[Ross Burgess]

Bump - from a newbie to this forum.

I have ECoS 2 and Switch Pilot Servo (8 servos).

I am in all sorts of trouble getting ECoS to connect up with Switch Pilot Servo.

I have had some success, but seem to have created more issues when attempting to program my servos using the programming buttons on Switch Pilot - ECoS operates some of them but not others.

There is barely anything entered into ECoS as yet... three loco decoders and that's it... and now, this switch pilot servo decoder.

 

I am able to operate six of the eight servo slots in switch pilot from the decoder itself.... I have successfully set end points and travel speed - all servo's work fine from Switch PIlot servo.

 

But, ECoS struggles with two of the servo's.... namely #1 and #5... the first of each string of four on the two programming lines of Switch Pilot.

I did have #1 working from ECoS for a short time - then lost it.

#5 will not respond at all from ECoS - but will operate fully from Switch Pilot buttons.

All six fitted servo's are "live" when ECoS is fired up.... the position they are set at is under constant monitoring and the points cannot be moved at all manually by hand.... 

 

I have connected Switch Pilot Servo to the Main - and am using POM on ECoS to attempt to make communication and programming.

 

I do not know if there is something I have not done which puts ECoS into some "receptive" programming mode from Switch Pilot Servo?

 

I have 16.5 v at Switch Pilot Servo.... originally, I had a separate power supply of 12v - but this was too low for Switch Pilot Servo to function at all... 

I connected Switch Pilot Sevo to ECoS through the main track bus.

I have added jumper leads to Switch Pilot Servo power supply and bridged them to the main track bus terminals - as suggested for a small layout (mine is a shelf layout).

 

I have read, re-read and read again through both ECoS and Switch Pilot Servo manuals - and so far found nothing which explains why #1 and #5 servos cannot be operated from ECoS.... 

 

I doubt very much that they are in conflict with some other address.. I have not seen a "!" mark come up at any time.

 

My next attempt will be to set Switch Pilot Servo addresses up to the third and fourth address lines... just in case there is some conflict with addresses for #1 and #5 servo's...

 

I am at a loss to explain anything further - and ask the forum if anyone has had similar issues between Switch Pilot Servo (8) and ECoS 2?

 

frats,

Rosco

[Ross Burgess]

Bump again - I do hope some folk are appreciating my path through this troublesome entry level into DCC with ESU and their products?

So, we have the Switch Pilot Servo decoder/ESU ECoS issue sorted... 

As it turns out, Switch Pilot Servo has to be in "programming mode" for ECoS to update its own programming - no mention of this.

I found that I had to check the little toolbox in the ECoS page for turnouts ( hate the expression "switches" - I found it very confusing).

I also found out that the decoder had to be in programming mode at the same time... although there is absolutely no response from ECoS that it is actually "receiving" anything... it just goes in behind the "iron curtain"... 

Once the decoder has been left idle for more than a couple of minutes, it defaults to the "sleeping" mode... and pages through a pair of "dormant" screens..... 

 

So, I eventually got all 8 of the servo's working... then decided to add Extension to it - for the purpose of supplying power to the isolated frogs in a DCC modified double crossover I wanted central in my shelf layout... wow! were there some problems in connecting Extension to it.... next post..

 

frats,

Rosco

 

[Downendian]

Hi Ross/Ashley

I’ve only just seen this thread so my apologies for not responding sooner but glad you’ve got things sorted. My layout turnouts are all controlled by switchpilot servos both 3 (4 servos) and 4 (8 servos), and I have over 50 points. I also have an ECoS so appreciate the issues you’ve been discussing. I programmed them all in directly from the switchpilot controller having assigned the turnout number there- the ECoS picked them up with no problems once the switchpilot was in programming mode as you say. The switchpilot 4 servo is much easier to use I found - but initially I had to use Google translate to convert a German manual to English!  I’m rather glad that I’ve placed the decoders in accessible positions as occasionally they need accessing.
if you have any issues re turnout control drop me a line by PM, I’m no expert but I like you was on a learning curve but eventually got things sorted. The only issue I have had is the servo motor itself somehow forgetting its right position and needs reprogramming- I have three to do again at the moment. I’ve yet to use it for accessories but I will do so for colour light signals in the future.

Neil 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Downendian

[Ross Burgess]

So here we are - at the start of a week long conquest to both understand the author of ESU documentation - and to actually get some result from Extension.... which worked!

 

I studied and studied the documentation - both hard and electronic on line copies... and the only diagram made it look easy - sadly, following it did not work!... that needs to be re-written.

I was further shocked to note that not one other soul has posted up on wiring up Extension for the purpose of frog isolation...

The promising wording from ESU was that "Extension" made it simple for doing this - nothing could be further from fact... it was darned complicated and perplexing... taking a number of days with a multi-meter to work out what was coming out of the terminals.

 

Following the diagram and wording... the "logic" was that you simply connected the "com" terminal to your frog - and used terminal 1 for one point direction, terminal 2 for the other.... no matter how many times I did this, I could only get power from either - not both with the changing of servo position.... no explanation of this.... and nothing on the diagram ..... suggesting to use terminal one and two for servo 1..... 

 

So, without going into great detail of the days spent sorting this out... I'll reveal what I found to work... 

 

Firstly, we need to look at the double crossover... which was modified to permit DCC without tripping short circuit sensitivety.

 

 

 

We can see in the above pic, there are four isolated frogs in the cente of the double crossover - the factory Shinohara unit was disected four times and "jumpers" were inserted. The point blades were all removed and jumpers soldered to those. The tie bars were removed and soldered to circuit board material - removing the electrically connection part of the copper pads...... 

The riveted point blade joiners removed with their tie bars and n/s track joiners fitted in place.... effectively isolating all rails from each other.... and soldering in jumpers for the needed connections in service.... this all worked fine... until we came to adding ESU to power the frogs.... read on..... 

 

Following the diagram and instructions, for the life of me I could not get the simplistic diagram connections to work in unison... I could get "either" but not "both".... 

I had all four sets of points in this crossover working "either" in non-diverge..... or, diverge..... needing to re-connect to terminals to get either.. but not by working the servo's through ECoS.... it was dead in one direction at all four sets of points.. and powered in the other... 

 

My multimeter wasn't as good on AC as it is in DC..... and I "got" voltage, but only at about 3 to 5 v AC..... on the "dead" terminals.. confusing the heck out of me even further.... 

 

So - what the heck was going on?... was it ECoS, Switch Pilot Servo, Extension... or my modified Shinohara double crossover - I believe you can start to appreciate this tail chasing drama as it played out.... 

 

I re-read and re-read the manuals, instructions and looked for anything on line which may have given any inkling as to what or how to remedy this... nothing, save some poor soul who seemed to like to promote his intelligence and ability with Extension by wiring up some function on a water tower .... which had nothing to do with wiring or connecting up points from Extension, as his title suggested... 

 

I was about to fire off a very stern complaint to ESU, when I stumbled onto something in their documentation - well hidden in the many pages and pages that you continually flip to and from as they tell you to "see chapter xyz".. and come back for more of the spiel... 

 

I stumbled onto the positions of the servos from Switch PIlot Servo.... in that they instructed to use the "B" set of terminals with outputs 1 and 2 for power.. this did not work - power came out of one of them, but throwing the servo did not produce power from the other terminal..... I believe many would simply have given up by now.... 

 

What I did stumble onto that brought success - was to "chance" using BOTH "A" and "B" sets of paired terminals...

Now, this might be quite apparent to those in this forum who have come up through the ages and ranks... but not to a newbie - more so, one who is being led by the manufacturers' own documentation - which does NOT state to use both sets..... but DOES state to use both terminals of the one set (which does not work - as I have posted in the above).

 

I happened to connect up one of the frog supplies to one terminal of the A set.... and the other to the B set... using terminal 1 of the A, and terminal 2 of the B.... but, there was a further issue - I needed to make a "link" between the two "Com"s... or the one not connected did not supply power to the frog... simple?... not so for me, I'm afraid.. but, I got there.... 

 

 

So, what we see is the underside of my shelf layout under the double crossover - we see Switch Pilot Servo with Extension fitted for the first four servos (of eight)... and the necessary wiring connections to go to the four frogs of the double crossover... 

 

 

 

The pic is not very clear - apologies... but you should be able to follow the connections.

For example, if we look at the left unit (Extension) - on the top, we can see "Servo" outputs for numbers 4 and 3 servo's.

We can see for both of these, there are three terminals at two outputs........ a "1", "com" and "2" for each side.

We can then see, for for servo "4"...... I have connected both "Com" terminals with a common link....... and this goes to the frog (green leads).... 

We can see at the pair of terminals "B" (on the left)... that I have connected my black lead for this frog to terminal 2 of this pair... which is the "diverge" point direction. Teminal 1 is not used.. and does not supply power when the servo is reversed.

 

We can see at the pair of terminals "A" (on the right of servo 4), I have connected my red lead for this servo frog to terminal 1 of this pair..... which is when this set of points are laying for the straight....... 

 

Again, the "Com" (green) leads needed to be "linked" so that both the red and black leads produced the required "curcuit".... 

 

I won't go into detail for the remaining servo's.. but, those on the adjacent sets of points  - that is, set 2 opposite set 1.. the connections had to be reversed - because of the orientation of them in the cross-over.... 

 

All four sets of points are now working.. the frogs are powered as they should be..... and the terminals which the instructions stated were to be used for opposite polarity are not used.... nothing comes out of them when the servo of Switch Pilot servo is reversed..... 

 

Now for the tricky bit - up until now, I believed I had it all working perfectly - until I ran a loco through the points.. and they tripped ECoS in two of the four movements.... through the frogs.

My multimeter did not show one issue......and I was just about to pull the entire lot out and replace the double crossover with four sets of Peco insulfrog points (whicn work perfectly with Switch Pilot servo - currently in use with servo numbers 5 - 8).... 

 

I persevered... both with power to the frogs, and testing with ECoS disconnected... I could not fault my modification to the Shinohara points... nor my wiring to ECoS via Switch Pilot and Extension.... but I did find that all four sets of points in this double crossover had to be Either in "normal" or "reversed" direction.. or they would short....  sadly, this wasn't the culprit for two of the four diverge movements... 

 

I connected up a multi-meter to the bogie of the loco... and hand pushed it through without ECoS connected nor any power to it from Extension... and bingo - it shorted in the two directions.... reversing the loco orientation resulted in the same tripping... 

So - "what" was the issue - and this needs to be added to the modification of the Shinohara double crossover...... 

There are two sets of rail heads which are "just" proud enough for the "tyre" of one wheel to make contact with whilst the opposing rear tyre of the wheel on the trailing bogie is "just" making contact with the diagonally opposite rail head of a conflicting frog.... and there is was.... but, not on the opposite pair of frogs..... 

I have temporarily remedied this by placing modelling masking tape over the rail heads at these locations.. but need help/advice here on what can be done to make this permanent - without attracting dirt and causing issues with contaminating wheels/pickups.. so, help here please... !

 

There was yet another little pair of players to present their ugly faces to this episode, it wasn't done with me yet... 

It took a strong magnifying glass and a bright LED light to find them - but I did.... and the flange of the same pair of diagonally opposing wheels in opposite bogies were shorting out..even with masking tape on the rail-heads.... 

If anyone has one of these cross-overs... what I "found" was there is a very miniscule little piece of n/s which is in the flangeway... from underneath - which for some strange reason - passes through and presents themselves in the flangeway.....

DCC, more specifically ECoS... is micro-micro-sensitive to shorts.... and the nano-second that the flange passed over both these two manufacturing defects (sorry Mr Shinohara)... was enough to trip ECoS.... again, masking tape into the flangeway... and my loco runs perfectly through every direction in this first series Shinohara double crossover - modified to the letter of instruction... 

 

I do very much hope this prevents anyone contemplating Extension, either in combination with - or as an aside to Shinohara double crossover - the perplexed frustration at ECoS tripping out.... 

 

My opinion is that ESU should update their documentation - so that it clearly explains that with the use of servo's for point operation - more specifically, when used in conjunction with Extension for supplying power to the frogs - that the opposing pair of outputs (A and B) are to be connected for each servo position.... not as they currently (excuse pun) state to use "one" pair of terminals.. and which is shown in the only diagram they provide for this installation.. it is wrong, and needs urgent correction.... it must state to use teminal 1 of one of the pair, and terminal 2 of the other.... and that the frog also must be wired common to both pairs....... or the circuit is not made.... 

 

I am extremely happy and satisfied with the manufacturer's products.. to me, they are the Rolls-Royce of DCC. and I have relied on them being pretty much "plug and play"... sadly, as you have read in the above - such is very much not the case of "plug and play" when it comes to adding Extension to Switch Pilot Servo...

 

Hope this helps, folk....

 

frats,

Rosco

 

 

 

[Ross Burgess]

29 minutes ago, Downendian said:

Hi Ross/Ashley

I’ve only just seen this thread so my apologies for not responding sooner but glad you’ve got things sorted. My layout turnouts are all controlled by switchpilot servos both 3 (4 servos) and 4 (8 servos), and I have over 50 points. I also have an ECoS so appreciate the issues you’ve been discussing. I programmed them all in directly from the switchpilot controller having assigned the turnout number there- the ECoS picked them up with no problems once the switchpilot was in programming mode as you say. The switchpilot 4 servo is much easier to use I found - but initially I had to use Google translate to convert a German manual to English!  I’m rather glad that I’ve placed the decoders in accessible positions as occasionally they need accessing.
if you have any issues re turnout control drop me a line by PM, I’m no expert but I like you was on a learning curve but eventually got things sorted. The only issue I have had is the servo motor itself somehow forgetting its right position and needs reprogramming- I have three to do again at the moment. I’ve yet to use it for accessories but I will do so for colour light signals in the future.

Neil 

 

Hi Neil... likewise, during my saga on which I have just posted "Tolstoys'" equivalent of W&P... I have had what you "enjoyed" with the reversal of points as opposed to what is shown in ECoS... further, I have also had ECoS trip the short circuit breaker when one set was not in the correct position... yet reported on the track diagram as being so..... I found that pressing the "stop" button and manually throwing the servo arm, then powering up again rectified it. I also found that when it reported points as being reversed, I powered down altogether then reset the points manually.... and powered up.... this rectified everything (basically a reboot). I believe ECoS gets into a tantrum when things don't go according to its liking.... and I go through a set of shorts tripping events when there is nothing at all to cause them.... I simply set all points on the layout for "normal" and do likewise with ECoS in "stop" mode.... power off, reboot - and ECoS comes back believing it's back in charge..... I have had servo "jigger" a couple of times as well... again, power off and reset points... re-boot and power up... all good...... 

Perhaps ESU are yet to make further revisions to the software.... the more we complain about such events - the louder our voices will be heard. For the main, it's a great system... but, it has a way to go yet before it reaches potential - and I believe it's within the software of the very expensive  componentry that has to be updated..... a great system, and which protects the huge investement placed in not only ESU hardware.. but also the decoders and expensive loco's/rolling stock that many have on their layouts.... 

 

Compared to the very early Hornby Zero 1.... this is eons ahead.... it works, but it still has its quirks... 

 

Thanks Neil, I hope what I post is helpful to the forum... I spent quite a few nights when sleep did not come to me with this wiring/connection failure of "logic" to finally be resolved.... 

 

frats,

Rosco