steam era passenger trains. Is there a brake car?

[webbcompound]

I'm used to UK practice, where each independent section of a train needed a guard, either in a seperate van, or in a special compartment in a passenger/brake carriage, either at the rear or in the middle of the train, but I'm not clear what US practice in the steam era was (specifically 30s 40s). It is clear that a combine, which looks like a UK passenger/brake, is mostly just a passenger and baggage car, and in lots of cases sits at the head end of a train; and I know that "head end" cars such as express reefers could also be tagged onto the tail end if they needed to be detached en-route. So are there any rules, or general practice, about what types of cars are allowed/required at the tail end of a passenger consist? I'm aware of observation cars, but cleary they weren't carried on every train, and they don't usually have any kind of "guard" function. The usual solution of looking at photos is hampered by the fact that very few photos are of tail ends, unless they feature an observation car.

Edited May 3, 2020 by webbcompound

[Prof Klyzlr]

Dear WebbCompound,

 

I'm not sure I'm clear on the question(s), but as far as "multiple brakemen" and individually-braked cars, the Westinghouse airbrake system was developed in the late 1800s, and full "trainline" Westinghouse pneumatic brake systems were made mandatory 1893.

https://www.american-rails.com/westinghouse.html

 

By convention, the tail of most 1900s - 1940s US trains were tailed by a caboose (freight trains),
combine (combined passenger and baggage/conductor car, typically used on "mixed" trains). The whole point of having the caboose was to give the Conductor and Rear-Brakeman somewhere to ride and keep an eye on the train from the rear.

 

Pure "Passenger Trains" would have had some form of dedicated "Conductor" area for the Conductor to do their paperwork, but the majority of their time would have been spent "prowling the train". As for "Observation" and "Drumhead" tail-end cars, these were rarer than one might suspect. Typically "Obs" cars were kept for "company use" in track-assessments and "chairman of the RR is coming to town" events. "Drumhead" cars were more typical in the later "aluminium streamliner" era, and for "named passenger trains".

 

Where a passenger train was "big and important enough" to have "head end baggage cars",  it was also important enought o have special handling of such cars and the contained freight. For trains which were _not_ large/important enough to have "head end" cars, a "combine" of some format would typically be enough to cover requirements.

 

I hope this helps...

 

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

[dave1905]

The most typical passenger train in the US (as probably in the UK) wasn't a long distance "name train".  It was a 3 or 4 car, all coach, commuter of local train.  The trainmen would have been in the cars.  A conductor and one-three brakeman.  On a short train like that there wasn't a "compartment" for the crew.  The conductors I saw occupied a seat or pair of seats and did his paperwork there.  On a long distance train, the crew might have some sort of compartment and the service crew (stewards, cooks, Pullman porters, etc) might have had some sort of dormer or crew quarters.

 

On those short trains, the last car was the last car.  The only rules were that the last car had to display a "marker" a red light or flag, and virtually all passenger cars had a bracket on the corners to attach a marker light.

[mdvle]

5 hours ago, webbcompound said:

I'm used to UK practice, where each independent section of a train needed a guard, either in a seperate van, or in a special compartment in a passenger/brake carriage, either at the rear or in the middle of the train, but I'm not clear what US practice in the steam era was (specifically 30s 40s).

 

North America has never had such a rule.

 

5 hours ago, webbcompound said:

It is clear that a combine, which looks like a UK passenger/brake, is mostly just a passenger and baggage car, and in lots of cases sits at the head end of a train;

 

It is just a passenger and baggage car combined, normally used on trains where patronage was so low that a dedicated coach for both couldn't be justified, and frequently this would have been a mixed train (well, called a mixed train but really a freight train with a combine thrown in to satisfy what usually would have been a regulatory need for passenger or mail service where such service really wasn't justified - the schedule of a mixed train really wasn't passenger friendly.

 

5 hours ago, webbcompound said:

and I know that "head end" cars such as express reefers could also be tagged onto the tail end if they needed to be detached en-route. So are there any rules, or general practice, about what types of cars are allowed/required at the tail end of a passenger consist?

 

Nope.

 

5 hours ago, webbcompound said:

I'm aware of observation cars, but cleary they weren't carried on every train, and they don't usually have any kind of "guard" function. The usual solution of looking at photos is hampered by the fact that very few photos are of tail ends, unless they feature an observation car.

 

Observation cars on passenger trains were also for the prestigious named trains, otherwise the tail end was simply whatever passenger car happened to be at the end of the train.

[webbcompound]

Thanks guys. Excellent info. I have found consists for the "name" trains that might appear, but was completely at a loss for the locals and commuter stuff.  As and when things begin to be constructed I will post here. Looks like there will be lots of kitbashing and scratchbuilding to get accurate consists, which will be interesting as it looks as if most of the specialist suppliers of kits and bits have folded or become deceased.

[mdvle]

6 hours ago, webbcompound said:

Thanks guys. Excellent info. I have found consists for the "name" trains that might appear, but was completely at a loss for the locals and commuter stuff.

 

For that sort of thing you are likely going to need to try and hope to find some photos of the area you would like to model - the name trains got all the attention.

 

If you do want to try and get it accurate then in addition to the standard image searches online if you haven't already you may want to find a more specific group to the railroad you are modelling - in your case the Pennsy? - perhaps by finding a mailing list on groups.io

 

The members there either may directly have the sort of info you are looking for, or may be able to point you to a more specific source like out of print books.

 

There are also a couple of email lists there specific to passenger stuff, either passenger cars in general or passenger consists, that may be of interest and helpful.

 

6 hours ago, webbcompound said:

As and when things begin to be constructed I will post here. Looks like there will be lots of kitbashing and scratchbuilding to get accurate consists, which will be interesting as it looks as if most of the specialist suppliers of kits and bits have folded or become deceased.

 

The steam era for North American modelling, for those who want to be accurate, involves work as there is little in the way of accurate RTR.

[BR60103]

Model Railroader has an occasional feature "Pike Sized Passenger Trains" which shows smaller trains and matches them up with available models.

 

Continuous brakes were standard within human memory.  But every car had a brake wheel which would apply the brakes on it. The caboose was available and staffed in case of problems. It also had a pipe attached to the brake line and hung from the railings. This could be used to signal the engineer or to apply the brakes.

All passenger cars that I've seen have at least on brake wheel accessible from the end vestibule. I think there may also have been a valve for the brake line. I think some brake wheels may have had to be accessed by going around the end of the car.

 

The term for baggage and mail cars was "head end cars".  I remember trains with a few express refrigerators and some baggage cars and one baggage-mail followed by coaches which may have included dining facilities. One coach may have been first-class.

 

 

Photos taken when I was 12.

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by BR60103

[dave1905]

For a steam era Pennsy train, a K4 Pacific and 3 or 4 P70 coaches would cover a couple hundred trains shorter distance trains.  Pretty much a P70 coach is the a correct answer to pretty much every locomotive hauled Pennsy train other than the premier trains.  The Pennsy owned more P70 coaches than the ATSF owned of all types of passenger equipment combined.

 

If you are looking for specific passenger cars, Bethlehem Car Works has some specific car models.

[dckuk]

During the Passenger train era there were certainly brakemen on passenger trains, even the premier trains of the road.

 

While the Internet is poor at finding factual information, other than discussion on the current argument over train crew size, I was able to find a site that reinforces my memory on the subject:

 

"Freight trains of this era normally carried two brakemen, one on the head-end, riding in the locomotive's cab, and a "flagman," which rode in the trailing caboose.  Each man had very serious responsibilities that included protecting the train through roll-by inspections (watching for hot boxes or some other problem with the equipment) and physically walking down the tracks to warn approaching trains of a problem (remember this was during the era long before radio or other wireless communication devices)..."

 

While this specifically mentions freight, the crew size was mandated, and the front and rear brakemen on passenger trains were more less the conductor's assistants; the conductor ruled the train, and brakemen would extend his capability, as well as undertake operational tasks along the journey and in station. One common place to observe the brakeman was collecting orders along the line, often suspended on posts or passed up in long handled hoops.

 

The best advice is as always; find what specifically interests you, such as railroad, era, train, etc., and research the heck out of it.

[webbcompound]

Thanks for all comments. Yes research is ongoing. Principally Pennsy through the PRRHS, but also NYC and IC. The Illinois Central appears to be the least accessible. Their historical siociety has just folded and merged membership with the Monticello Museum, which means that it is more focussed on volunteering there than anything else. When it comes to (ish) factual questions like this I'm trying to avoid buying expensive books from the US, although this is ultimately unavoidable.

 

Regarding cars the Bachmann P70 looks pretty reasonable, and since it will need repainting into early brighter Tuscan I can buy any road that is reasonably priced second hand. Surprisingly the older Roundhouse and Model Power Harrimans seem a pretty reasonable starting point for bashing quite a lot of IC heavyweight stock. Anything newly manufactured is frighteningly expensive.

 

[Patrick SPF]

The IC was Harriman empire in the so the stock would have followed group practices.

Back to the PRR Walthers and BCW make the B60 class in a number of variants.

All be it slightly later, during the diesel era for some years there was a push-pull P70 and Baldwin combination in New Jersey.

 

[jasond]

I haven't been a member for a while, but the NMRA British Region has a library as well as meets (you know, days when many like-minded souls get dangerously close together, rummage thru' second-hand stuff that may have been touched by other humans and have ...er, fun?).  Aaaaah ... anyway, books:

https://www.nmrabr.org.uk/region-library/

Any other O-scalers in it?  I might rejoin.

Jason