About to stick the roof on my Slaters MR 4 wheel brakes, what colour were they inside..?

[MR Chuffer]

I've seen a fair amount on here about the interior of open wagons, same as the body colour, various shades of wood or acquiring the colour from their loads, but having scoured all my MR reference books, Essery, Dow, etc., what colour were brake van interiors, specifically Midland in my case?

[brossard]

Brakes tended to be a light colour inside.  Here's a pic of my Parkside 7mm Toad:

 

 

...and my Slaters ex LNER Toad D:

 

 

Try Googling the question.

 

HTH

 

John

Edited May 3, 2020 by brossard

[MR Chuffer]

9 hours ago, brossard said:

Try Googling the question.

Not getting much from Google - unless its me - but what you demonstrate makes sense, lighter shade inside with a darker colour up to the waist, but slightly different for both vehicles? And then I see a photo of a brake interior on the Bluebell with light colour and what looks like crimson lake up to waist height, what were your sources?

[brossard]

Lol, my source was pictures found on Google.  Yes brown, crimson or red to the waist and then a cream colour to the roof.  I did a lot of interior detail to all my brakes but when the roof is on you can't see any of it.  Makes me wonder if I'm daft.

 

John

[Rambler]

In LMS Wagons volume 2 ( page 149) there’s a 1929 specification for wagon liveries, produced by Derby Works. This is likely to be similar to the final Midland spec. For the Insides of Brake Van this has a white ceiling and Brunswick Green sides and ends. In LMS Wagons volume 1 there’s an interior photo of a 1939 built Brake van (plate 23) and this shows dark and glossy walls. The stove and it’s chimney appear to be matt black, and the Brake column is white.

[MR Chuffer]

3 hours ago, brossard said:

Lol, my source was pictures found on Google

Those Google folk are clever and only present what they think you want, trouble is, I don't tell them anything so they don't know hence only 3 pictures in my image search but lots on car brakes 

 

And @rambler, if I had to guess, I would have said chocolate to the waist, cream/buff to the ceiling and white on the ceiling, so thanks for that.

 

But as @brossard said, I perhaps might not be able to tell when the roof's on, but there again, I might and have plenty of time to do it.

[Compound2632]

I don't think I've ever come across anything about the painting of the insides of Midland goods brake vans. Looking through the Derby registers, there is a pair of photos of a Midland goods brake van interior, DY 3494 and DY 3495, this listing doesn't necessarily mean the photographs survive - I can't find them or anything related in the Midland Railway Study Centre catalogue. A monochrome photograph would only be of limited use in determining the colour!

 

In the absence of any other information, I'd go with @Rambler's suggestion of using the LMS specification. It's clear that LMS specifications for painting goods stock were generally identical to the Midland specifications, at least until zinc white started replacing white lead, which isn't relevant to the present case. It seems that green was a fairly common colour for the interior of passenger brake compartments and I recall some discussion in relation to North British Railway goods brakes:

... with interiors painted duck-egg green.

 

Once the windows are glazed and the roof is on, the interior of the model won't be at all visible unless you have some interior lighting! I have to say it has never occurred to me to paint the inside of one of these vans. Now I'll have to.

[MR Chuffer]

11 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

I have to say it has never occurred to me to paint the inside of one of these vans.

I won't be into the fine detail like @brossard's vans, but its too late if you decide you do want an interior finish but have glued the roof down. But I'm thinking Brunswick Green, floor to ceiling, doesn't actually add much, unlike cream or beige would, so perhaps I'm veering away from the idea.

 

But you know you've got it bad when you start on the insides of covered wagons...

[Compound2632]

6 minutes ago, MR Chuffer said:

But you know you've got it bad when you start on the insides of covered wagons...

 

I quite fancy doing a covered van with the door open as a static model, so knowing what the interior looks like is worth knowing - plus there are plenty of photos. But a brake van with the verandah door open?

[MR Chuffer]

Yes, as I wrote it, I thought how many model scenes do you see with van doors open? Same with open wagons with doors dropped being unloaded.

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, MR Chuffer said:

Yes, as I wrote it, I thought how many model scenes do you see with van doors open? Same with open wagons with doors dropped being unloaded.

 

I've been thinking of that too. There are a number of Midland pre-grouping photos that show 5 and 3 plank wagons being shunted with a door down.

[NCB]

On 03/05/2020 at 21:42, brossard said:

Brakes tended to be a light colour inside.  Here's a pic of my Parkside 7mm Toad:

 

 

...and my Slaters ex LNER Toad D:

 

 

Try Googling the question.

 

HTH

 

John

 

Re GWR toads, GWW page 125 quotes a specification from the 1921-1937 period which states "Interior of the verandah is grey with the inside of the roof white. Interior of the body is GWR coach brown up to window levels and above that GWR coach cream. Roof inside white.". My guess would be that other periods are similar.

 

Nigel

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, NCB said:

 

Re GWR toads, GWW page 125 quotes a specification from the 1921-1937 period which states "Interior of the verandah is grey with the inside of the roof white. Interior of the body is GWR coach brown up to window levels and above that GWR coach cream. Roof inside white.". My guess would be that other periods are similar.

 

Would the interior have been crimson lake during the last decade before grouping, or would this have been a way to use up leftover stocks of old carriage paint?

[Steamport Southport]

On 04/05/2020 at 16:41, Rambler said:

In LMS Wagons volume 2 ( page 149) there’s a 1929 specification for wagon liveries, produced by Derby Works. This is likely to be similar to the final Midland spec. For the Insides of Brake Van this has a white ceiling and Brunswick Green sides and ends. In LMS Wagons volume 1 there’s an interior photo of a 1939 built Brake van (plate 23) and this shows dark and glossy walls. The stove and it’s chimney appear to be matt black, and the Brake column is white.

 

I believe they followed MR practice until the change over to bauxite.

 

After then it was crimson up to the centre with cream above and white ceiling (zinc?). Which are the colours that BR adopted.

 

 

 

Jason

[brossard]

I think in the BR era anything goes.  I did use photographs.  In the case of the GWR Toad, the example I saw had brown up to the waist and cream/yellow to the roof.

 

John

Edited May 7, 2020 by brossard

[Caley Jim]

Not perhaps relevant to the title of this thread, but according to Mike Williams' 'Caledonian Railway Wagons and NPCS' the interior of CR brake vans was light stone with a pale blue ceiling.

Jim

[MR Chuffer]

10 hours ago, Caley Jim said:

light stone with a pale blue ceiling

Nice...!

[AliR53]

On my workbench at present is a 00 gauge Dapol Brake Van kit (Cheltenham Models £7.13 incl postage) and I decided to do the interior with one of the doors open. I chose all cream (Titanium Buff Acrylic) for the sides and roof with some weathering. My thinking was that this would be closest to achieving 'Nicotine' colour, ie a few years worth of fags, pipe smoke and stove. Pretty nutty thing to do really because unless you pick it up and look very closely I don't think you will hardly see anything. But it was Christmas and I managed to get quite a lot done. It will go on a diorama.