A newbie looking for feedback on my track proposal [Updated + Finalised with Video]

[Chimer]

I couldn't resist having my own go …...

 

 

Only 3 circuits, but lots of operating potential, I think.  The terminus is actually two termini, to avoid the problem of return loops and short circuits - I think feeding the turntable section via a DPDT switch from the appropriate side of the terminus would work OK, though I'm not DCC qualified.  So trains run from one side of the terminus to the other either directly, via the bi-directional outer circuit, or using the crossovers to visit and later return from the inner circuits which are like a double-track main line, the innermost anti-clockwise and the middle one clockwise.  Two platform lines for each circuit at the through station to hold trains while others switch circuits.

 

I've used set-track as much as possible, there's one small radius streamline point over on the right hand side which means the rest of the middle right curve on the outer circuit uses 2nd radius curves - otherwise the circuits are 2nd, 3rd and 4th radius as you'd expect.  And lots of bits of flexitrack used to fill the gaps.

 

The points for the platform loops and the one streamline point would probably be best electrified, but they should all be accessible via the manholes - a small child stationed in each manhole as a signalman would be good.

 

Obviously more sidings could be added in that middle section if required.

 

That was quite fun to do ……. no idea if it will float the OP's boat, but an enjoyable hour or three anyway .  And undoubtedly lots of scope for improvement, as done at speed!

[Will Hay]

Bravo, very nice.

The lower element is hugely beneficial to my current thinking.

[DCB]

How about this, doodle it should work. Trains can arrive or leave any platform in either direction

 

I would shorten the thru station 2" to allow a shunting line to the back so station shunts don't foul the running loops

[Chris116]

22 minutes ago, DavidCBroad said:

How about this, doodle it should work. Trains can arrive or leave any platform in either direction

 

I would shorten the thru station 2" to allow a shunting line to the back so station shunts don't foul the running loops

Looks good but means the electric problems are much harder to solve which I think was the reason for the original plan.

[Zomboid]

Isn't the OP using DCC? The electrical complexities can be magicked away with return loop module things if so (though I believe the Hornby select controller can't provide enough current to operate them so would need upgrading).

[Chimer]

2 hours ago, Chris116 said:

Looks good but means the electric problems are much harder to solve which I think was the reason for the original plan.

 

Exactly right.  Otherwise I would have aligned the approach roads and throat to look like a conventional double-track terminus.  I thought how I did it was about right for how the OP wants to operate his layout.  But the great thing about these threads is that different ideas can be explored …. I know how to handle return loops in DC, but have no idea of the DCC options available.

[Zomboid]

I think your terminus plan with two separate, co-located termini would be the way to go given how the OP seems to want to do things, as the complexity is probably not needed. It could be introduced later if things take that kind of a turn.

 

Though to be honest, Phil's 4 track roundy is probably a more appropriate answer to the question being asked.

[Harlequin]

On 07/05/2020 at 17:44, Will Hay said:

 

Hello again.

Apologies, I may not have understood your layout correctly.

I naively thought you'd extended the track around the back of the hatch, when clearly you're showing it running over part of the opening, with some form of removable section.

 

I like that, I like it a lot but I'd be interested to learn how to properly and securely connect each track when the board/removable section is constantly being removed, do I simply remove the board and the track [from the removable board] before I decant from the loft each time, and drop in the board and reconnect the track sections when I return to the layout?

 

FUnit.

Thanks for the advice re. insulating, yes, I probably will although doubt I need to consider the law when utilise an existing space within my home.

The problem at the minute is it's getting super-hot up there, and I assumed, perhaps somewhat naively [again], that insulating the rafters would exacerbate the problem by maintaining the heat in the uppermost/loft section of the house.

I'm considering a velux type window, for ventilation.

 

All,

I'm now heavily leaning against the full perimeter track and assorted sheds/shunting aspects within it, the latter of which I've no real clue on as to how to put together.

However, it's worth bearing in mind that I'm running a [basic] Hornby select controller, my experience of CV's is absolutely zero and, as an example, my perception to date of CV's is that they automate a process I currently undertake manually, which to, pending research, seems to lessen my involvement.

 

As always, I'm sincerely grateful for the input so far.

 

EDIT 0705202017:46

Ah, one small drawback to the proposal from Phil...

....the left hand side of the loft, i.e. that I've never identified, is the same size as the layout I've shown.

I'm working in 50% of my loft space, the balance is storage.

 

The trouble is, the access to the loft storage isn't a case of coming up the hatch and going directly into the storage space, there's a roof truss there that means we traverse up the ladder, into what I'm going to call train space and, through the top left curve on Phil's layout, into the storage loft space.

 

I guess, as well as a removable section over the hatch, I could add a removable section to access the second loft space.

 

Removale/lifitng section: What most people do is fix the rails to the lifting board and simply cut them at the joint. Make sure that the tracks are aligned when the board is replaced (there are various ways of doing this) and supply the tracks with power using flexible leads.

 

If the other half of the loft is currently for storage, and you have to move through the layout area to get to the storage and the loft ladder is consuming floor space in the layout area, then there is a clear answer to all this. Swap the layout space with the storage space. Now the layout space has a clear floor area, only needs one lifting section (or "duck-under") to get into the operating well and when you're playing trains other people can get to the storage area unhindered.

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Harlequin

[Will Hay]

24 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

 

Removale/lifitng section: What most people do is fix the rails to the lifting board and simply cut them at the joint. Make sure that the tracks are aligned when the board is replaced (there are various ways of doing this) and supply the tracks with power using flexible leads.

 

If the other half of the loft is currently for storage, and you have to move through the layout area to get to the storage and the loft ladder is consuming floor space in the layout area, then there is a clear answer to all this. Swap the layout space with the storage space. Now the layout space has a clear floor area, only needs one lifting section (or "duck-under") to get into the operating well and when you're playing trains other people can get to the storage area unhindered.

 

 

A fine idea, but the cost to develop the storage space to the level of the layout space is not something I can invest in, I'm afraid.

 

I've decided to proceed with your idea of the square, it's clearly the best option [so thanks to you and all] but reduce it slightly so it doesn't impede the access hatch.

This way I can still access the storage without affecting the layout and will have a  removable section in the layout for the ladder [shown in red].

 

I'm working on the layout as I type, but I'm struggling to incorporate Chimer's upper section of multiple stations.

Goodness only knows how I'll get on with the lower, 'industrial' aspect 

 

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Will Hay
Image removed, pending further design work

[Will Hay]

Work to date shown below, which I'm somewhat pleased with.

 

The problem, as I'm new to this, is that I don't understand the potential of what I can build and ultimately engage with, and the functions I can achieve to prevent me from getting bored of a number of trains going around and around [i.e. my initial plan].

 

I think, based on the excellent contributions by all of you, I want four elements...

 

The first necessarily is obviously the loops, which you'll see I've achieved, with the forums excellent advice.

 

The second aspect is the stations, thanks to Chimer, although I'm not happy with the curves and for some reason couldn't match the uniformity shown by Chimer.

 

I want to add some thing to do on the inner right, based on Chimer's design but unsure what functions I'll carry out here and not sure what the centre piece is [station?].

 

The fourth is something [shown as a work in progress, bottom left] I want to engage with, which I hoped could utilise my three engine sheds in some way but, as you will see, I'm struggling here.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Will Hay
image revised to incl. crossings

[Will Hay]

10 hours ago, Zomboid said:

Isn't the OP using DCC? The electrical complexities can be magicked away with return loop module things if so (though I believe the Hornby select controller can't provide enough current to operate them so would need upgrading).

 

If you're referring to the PSU then I've already upgraded to [what I think is?] the 4amp, i.e. the one that comes packaged with the 'Elite', and hence why I can run eight locomotives at once without issue.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Will Hay
Further amendment to design, specifically stations

[Chimer]

I'll try to help, but fear that any merit there might have been in my musings has been lost in your latest design - sorry!

 

The through station at the top is trying to fit into around 2'6" less length, which accentuates the tightness of the curves which are necessary to form the extra platform loops, and of course shortens the platforms.  But it's still functional.

 

The terminus (?) however isn't.  In my design that bottom station was operationally two separate terminii, each of which had two platform lines and a central loco release line, which enables a loco to detach from its train, run round it to the other end and take it away again, probably after visiting the turntable.  Run round facilities are not essential, there's always the option of a different loco coming onto the back and taking the train away, but I liked the operational possibilities.  I took it as read you'd recognise the functionalities, which are pretty standard.

 

There are three platforms and four platform tracks in the double station - the two separate halves share the central platform, using one platform face each, and also share the turntable.  I used the same basic layout for both halves to save time - with a little more work, it could look better.

 

The key operational point is that a train leaves one side of the terminus (platform 1 or 2, say) and eventually returns to the other (platform 3 or 4), possibly taking some time out on the inner loops in between times.  David's suggested mods would enable a train leaving any platform to return to any platform, at the cost of having to guard against electrical short circuits, which I was keen to avoid. 

 

The tracks you've got in blue down the right hand side don't function as a station in any sensible way - they're just a bunch of sidings.  But if you did put a workable terminus in this position, you would have the problem that a train leaving from there can't get back easily - it has to terminate in the through station and reverse somehow.

 

I don't suppose this has helped a lot ….. but I thought some more explanation of what I was suggesting might be helpful.

 

Cheers

 

Chris

Edited May 9, 2020 by Chimer

[Will Hay]

Thank you.

 

I've what I need as far as stations and loops, that you see on the inner right was my interpretation of a holding area that I could perhaps store stock and locomotives not running at any one time.

 

I can see that's it not easily accessible, nor easy to navigate without a lot of messing around.

 

I also have work to do bottom left which ifeally/would make sense/should be accessible from the inner left loops.

The trouble there is that's where my removable hatch is, and I'm reluctant to add too much there given that it'll constantly be removed.

 

Ah, well.

 

At the very least, I'm settled on the square donut as I call it and today I insulated the 'layout' area of the loft.

Tomorrow my boy and I will insulate the storage loft area and, if I could find a reasonably priced source of 9mm birch ply and 45x20-ish PSE,  I'd be able to order sufficient materials for my baseboard.

 

Experience so far tells me that timber suppliers are either closed, out of stock or profiteering.

 

I'm on annual leave next week and hoped to get this built the early part of next week.

[Will Hay]

Firstly, sincere thanks to all who have contributed to this thread.

 

I'm sure these questions have been asked millions of times and whilst instinct tells me I've taken up far too much of your time and expertise, your support has been invaluable.

 

The image shown is pretty much what I intend to run with.

 

Very different to that I came with and it's genuinely exciting to see what I've now added, thanks to you all.

 

I've added a means to run trains from the three engine sheds I have, shown inner right, directly to any of the three, inner platforms.

This is pretty exciting to be honest.

This is a huge improvement to my previous trio of engine sheds which really, if I'm honest and as they exited onto R1 track, were only or show.

 

I've also added a means to load and unload all kinds of wagons and ballast I have ready.

I haven't shown a turntable as I just don't like them, but unless I'm mistaken I can enter this [fiddle?] area from four separate points on the inner R2 track and pick up and drop off [hopefully, unless I'm missing something!]

 

I'm going to leave the inner left section clear for both removable access and some car parking, booking hall etc.

 

So, again, sincere thanks and if you do see any tweaks that would help without a huge change and still have the energy to contribute I've be eternally grateful.

 

With thanks,

 

Rob [Will Hay]

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Will Hay
missed the final station and assorted, minor corrections

[Zomboid]

There's a couple of changes I'd make - the diamond on the approach to one shed I'd replace with a LH point. The track up to the diamond could than become a siding if you wanted.

 

In the bottom right in not sure what the track that bypasses the yard approach is for, and it doesn't actually align properly anyhow. I wouldn't use it myself.

 

Otherwise I think you've got a decent answer to the question you were asking, and should have a lot of fun with it.

[Will Hay]

4 hours ago, Zomboid said:

There's a couple of changes I'd make - the diamond on the approach to one shed I'd replace with a LH point. The track up to the diamond could than become a siding if you wanted.

 

In the bottom right in not sure what the track that bypasses the yard approach is for, and it doesn't actually align properly anyhow. I wouldn't use it myself.

 

Otherwise I think you've got a decent answer to the question you were asking, and should have a lot of fun with it.

 

Perfect, Zomboid, thanks.

 

I know you don't like the redundant track at the bottom, I've tidied it up [partly based on your thinking and do now like the diamond formation front, and to a far lesser extent, at the back] but I do I prefer an entry and egress point, even if that does include some reversing.

 

 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Will Hay
further clarity.

[Zomboid]

Doesn't matter what I like or not, really, but I do think that's an improvement.

 

I like how you can get (via a few reverses) to/from the outer shed to the siding area, good for loco changes. I can't see an easy way to get from the inner shed to the sidings without going via the station, which would be nice if it were possible.

 

However, can you squash the crossovers up on the right hand side so you've got direct access from all lines to/ from the sidings area? Do you have any intention of having lines for particular directions or is it going to be a free for all?

[Will Hay]

1 minute ago, Zomboid said:

Doesn't matter what I like or not, really, but I do think that's an improvement.

 

I like how you can get (via a few reverses) to/from the outer shed to the siding area, good for loco changes. I can't see an easy way to get from the inner shed to the sidings without going via the station, which would be nice if it were possible.

 

However, can you squash the crossovers up on the right hand side so you've got direct access from all lines to/ from the sidings area? Do you have any intention of having lines for particular directions or is it going to be a free for all?

 

Not sure what you mean by squashing up the crossovers adjacent to the sidings I'm afraid.

 

When I added the trio of sheds I did think of running a line from the [middle bottom] sidings through one of the sheds, I might have a play with that now.

[Will Hay]

Oh, and as far as the outer, four loops; blue is clockwise and green is anti-clockwise, or vice-versa.

[Zomboid]

I meant by removing the R600 spacers between each crossover.

 

That and an alternative using diamond crossings (if you'll be running the blue lines clockwise and the green circuits anti clockwise it's entirely realistic) are shown here. Outer blue track at the top, the right-most point heads to the sidings.

[Zomboid]

Seeing as you'll be doing UDUD then I'd do the diamond version, but I like that kind of arrangement. It's also fewer reverse curves, which you might appreciate if you're propelling.

 

The same basic thing could be done to the crossovers on the bottom of the plan.

[Will Hay]

I see.

Effectively, as I show them, my crossovers are pointless, aren't they?

 

Although, having said that, my colour coding isn't strictly correct.

 

Historically I tend to run five tracks as four or, in this case, four tracks as three.

This is clearer on my very first, L shape proposal.

 

As I'm not automated points at this time, doing it this way means each locomotive crosses a point at two occasions and adds some curvature to the travel, rather than just traversing a standard loop.

 

The diamond set up looks very nice, though.

[Will Hay]

1 hour ago, Zomboid said:

Doesn't matter what I like or not, really, but I do think that's an improvement.

 

I like how you can get (via a few reverses) to/from the outer shed to the siding area, good for loco changes. I can't see an easy way to get from the inner shed to the sidings without going via the station, which would be nice if it were possible.

 

However, can you squash the crossovers up on the right hand side so you've got direct access from all lines to/ from the sidings area? Do you have any intention of having lines for particular directions or is it going to be a free for all?

 

I've amended to diamond crossings, I can see the gain there, thanks, very nice.

 

I've also added a means to get from the sidings to the inner an centre sheds.

[Zomboid]

I'd do them in the other order as I drew them - you could then run green to green and blue to blue simultaneously. You'd have a crash if you tried that as you've shown. You also need a green to blue crossover with each set (or at least the set on the right) so you can get blue line trains to the sidings.

 

I think with all the siding and loco shed space you've gained, you could run 4 lines as 4 lines. That's the context I've been thinking in at least, if you want to run it as 3 out of 4 then it might warrant a different answer.

[Will Hay]

Thanks again, Zomboid

 

I now see what you mean with potential crosses with my diamonds, silly of me.

 

I've added a crossover from blue to green at the bottom.

 

I've also increased the area of the sidings, if only to add more space for decoration and less used stock.

 

EDIT

I doubt, by adding a few diamonds to my sidings, I can use all the space shown on my sidings.

I'll probably revert to my previous sidings design.

 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Will Hay
additional clarity