From OO to O in a garage - trackplan help please!

[Grafarman]

Ok, so, I have a converted garage measuring 16’4” x 7’3” in which there currently resides a OO gauge four-track roundy layout which goes all round the room.

This is great, and I really enjoy it, but I know at some point I’m going to have to move up to O gauge, for a number of reasons:

 

1. I’ve already completed a layout in N gauge, and then had to move up to OO as I couldn’t manage the details anymore; I can see the move to O being a ‘dexterity and eyesight’ move as much as anything...

2. Although I love ‘watching the trains go by’ and enjoy seeing large express locos and long lines of coaches, there’s something very appealing about realistic, detailed locos shunting wagons in a yard and travelling through beautiful scenery with a two-coach local service.  This is fuelled by my love of Llangollen, my local heritage railway.  I would employ DCC sound if I moved to O gauge; currently it’s all DC...

3. There seems to be an ever-increasing supply of really good O gauge locos and rolling stock from the likes of Dapol, Heljan and so on, which look the part and aren’t too unreasonable in price.

4. O gauge would give me more opportunity to make things, and do kit-building and so on, which I enjoyed doing in N gauge but have skipped in OO, using proprietary infrastructure instead.

5. There’s a chap lives just around the corner from me who handbuilds some exquisite 7mm wagons and I’d love to justify getting hold of some!

 

So, the question hovers over all of this: will O gauge in a garage really work, or am I delusional...?!

 

I downloaded a free version of Anyrail and started fiddling about with Peco bullhead 124 track pieces etc, eventually coming up with the plan below.  As I have usually built models based on real locations I have no experience of creating branch line plans from scratch (I don’t think there’s a prototype this small!) so I have no idea as to whether this plan will work.

 

In other words, I need to know:

 

1. Is it realistic in terms of trackplan and size?

2. Are there any glaring errors in the trackplan that need adjusting?

3. Are there sufficient operating possibilities to justify disposing with the OO and building it at some point in the future?  In which case, what sort of movements could happen in a typical running session?

4. What kind of stock would be suitable?

 

As far as the plan goes, the bottom right corner does currently have a lift-up flap which means the layout could go all round the room, but I didn’t think another curve could be included in that end – you may think differently...

 

I have been through a number of plan-books, including the O Gauge Guild ‘Layouts for small spaces’ publication but nothing leapt out; hence this cry for help!

All input/criticisms/advice would be very welcome!

 

Thank you

David

 

[sir douglas]

if the garage is 7'3" wide, the curve is about 6'9" or 7' diameter at most, that is quite tight for anything larger than 08 or jinty, but its fine is you want a branch, light or industrial line. and i'm a little concerned of how close the middle of the curve is to the wall

[Hal Nail]

Hi,

There are any number of recent threads on minimum radius curves and opinions vary so I wont repeat here but for me that's too much for the space. No doubt others will disagree and show theirs so look at the pictures and decide if its what you want!

[Chris116]

Looks good to me. The only comment I would make is that personally I would not bother with the shed and would spread out the sidings you have in the yard using the space vacated by not having the shed. It also has the advantage of getting rid of the slip which I don't thing many branch line termini had. Good luck with your plans.

[Grafarman]

4 minutes ago, sir douglas said:

if the garage is 7'3" wide, the curve is about 6'9" or 7' diameter at most, that is quite tight for anything larger than 08 or jinty, but its fine is you want a branch, light or industrial line. and i'm a little concerned of how close the middle of the curve is to the wall

 

Thank you, and yes I should have said - that edge of the baseboard is set against a recessed window, so can overhang another couple of inches if necessary...

[Grafarman]

4 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

Hi,

There are any number of recent threads on minimum radius curves and opinions vary so I wont repeat here but for me that's too much for the space. No doubt others will disagree and show theirs so look at the pictures and decide if its what you want!

 

Indeed that's the sort of feedback I need  - the curves are Peco radius 2 setrack so I assume these would be ok for most stock...?

[Grafarman]

4 minutes ago, Chris116 said:

Looks good to me. The only comment I would make is that personally I would not bother with the shed and would spread out the sidings you have in the yard using the space vacated by not having the shed. It also has the advantage of getting rid of the slip which I don't thing many branch line termini had. Good luck with your plans.

 

Ok thank you - is it ok for a loco to run round wagons in the station area, or should there be a run around in the yard area...?

[Chris116]

I think most branch line termini would only have one run round loop and that would be alongside the platform road. Maybe if you had the platform at the back of the layout with all the track on the control panel side it would make things better. I will have a play with the space you have knowing you are limited by the radius of the curve to the fiddle yard which needs to be as big as possible.

[Grafarman]

1 minute ago, Chris116 said:

I think most branch line termini would only have one run round loop and that would be alongside the platform road. Maybe if you had the platform at the back of the layout with all the track on the control panel side it would make things better. I will have a play with the space you have knowing you are limited by the radius of the curve to the fiddle yard which needs to be as big as possible.

 

Thank you - as I mentioned in the previous post I used the Peco 2nd radius setrack curves so avoiding flexi 'drift' of the curve...

 

[Simond]

It depends...

 

if you want large locos and named trains, no, it won’t work (or go tinplate)

if you’re happy with large locos and no trains, loco shed layouts work well, you can show off your collection of locos and trundle them around.  It’s where I am today, though I have running opportunities (Covid permitting) at the local club and a couple of mates’ tracks.  

if you want shunting puzzles, it’ll work fine.

You could also make a transportable layout , and do shows.

 

turning to your BLT plan;

running short coaches around what I’m seeing as a 3’ radius is certainly possible, but pushing stock is likely to lead to buffer locking and frustration, and if you fancy a 14xx and autocoach, you’d probably need a fixed coupling between them.
you won’t want to do it with 70’ coaches, as they’ll look a bit daft, but a rake of 4-wheelers would probably work well

 

if you want prototype tiny (and I’m guessing GW) then maybe Hemyock,  or Culmstock, Uffculme, if you want to make a through station.  Interesting shunting too...

 

or go modern image - there’s a very detailed model of (iirc) an East Anglian terminus, using multi units and the occasional works train.  Might not float your boat, but certainly a lovely model.  Can’t remember who did it or what it’s called, unfortunately.

 

docks work well in small spaces, shunting & tight bends, small locos, freight stock, but probably no passenger operations, and the scenery is not like Llangollen!

 

hope these musings provide some food for thought

atb

Simon

 

[Hal Nail]

9 minutes ago, Grafarman said:

 

Indeed that's the sort of feedback I need  - the curves are Peco radius 2 setrack so I assume these would be ok for most stock...?

For me they look really tight - you would get overhang with coaches etc and it defeats the beauty of O gauge for me but others do this and are happy so is difficult to comment without offending anyone!

 

All I can suggest is check some of the threads and view for yourself 

 

 

[Grafarman]

5 minutes ago, Simond said:

It depends...

 

if you want large locos and named trains, no, it won’t work (or go tinplate)

if you’re happy with large locos and no trains, loco shed layouts work well, you can show off your collection of locos and trundle them around.  It’s where I am today, though I have running opportunities (Covid permitting) at the local club and a couple of mates’ tracks.  

if you want shunting puzzles, it’ll work fine.

You could also make a transportable layout , and do shows.

 

turning to your BLT plan;

running short coaches around what I’m seeing as a 3’ radius is certainly possible, but pushing stock is likely to lead to buffer locking and frustration, and if you fancy a 14xx and autocoach, you’d probably need a fixed coupling between them.
you won’t want to do it with 70’ coaches, as they’ll look a bit daft, but a rake of 4-wheelers would probably work well

 

if you want prototype tiny (and I’m guessing GW) then maybe Hemyock,  or Culmstock, Uffculme, if you want to make a through station.  Interesting shunting too...

 

or go modern image - there’s a very detailed model of (iirc) an East Anglian terminus, using multi units and the occasional works train.  Might not float your boat, but certainly a lovely model.  Can’t remember who did it or what it’s called, unfortunately.

 

docks work well in small spaces, shunting & tight bends, small locos, freight stock, but probably no passenger operations, and the scenery is not like Llangollen!

 

hope these musings provide some food for thought

atb

Simon

 

 

Many thanks indeed; the pondering begins...!

[Andrew P]

The first pic shows Peco Set Track Curve in my 8ft 6 inch wide Shed, there was no room for scenics either side without it looking contrived, especially for a Rural Branch.

The next two pics are from my Bala Town BLT Layout and show the 12ft Scenic Section, leaving 5ft for my swivelling sector Fiddle Yard at the end. 

 

 

I hope this is of some help. BTW B Set and Auto Coaches look silly on Set Track curves IMHO.

 

Good luck, enjoy and stay safe.

[F-UnitMad]

17 minutes ago, Grafarman said:

 

Indeed that's the sort of feedback I need  - the curves are Peco radius 2 setrack so I assume these would be ok for most stock...?

Short 4-wheel stock, yes, and 0-6-0 locos, but I seriously doubt anything longer like bogie coaches, 4-6-0 steamers & Bo-Bo diesels would be happy on such a tight curve. They'll get round it individually, but overhang will cause coupler & buffer lock problems when you try to run a train. Even after-market auto-couplers in O are not designed for tight curves.

I run an O-scale roundy-roundy in 17ft by 8ft, with 36" radius curves, but it's American outline (scale 2-rail, not 'toy' 3-rail) and works due to the inherent advantages of Kadee couplers and no buffers. 

[Chris116]

Having read the other replies I suspect you may want to think about the layout but if you go ahead with basically what you had then here is my alternative.

[brossard]

My first stab at a 0 gauge layout included a U around the end of my basement.  I had 11' which gave me something like a 4' 6" rad curve.  Stock would work, even propel wagons without buffer lock.  The exception was my friends 0-4-4T loco which buffer locked due to bunker swing.

 

I ended up starting again and now I have a more or less traditional BLT which is 21' long incl 5' sector plate.

 

I see Andy has weighed in.  His layouts are very inspiring.

 

I won't clutter your thread.  You can check out what I've been doing in the link below.

 

John

[Grafarman]

37 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

The first pic shows Peco Set Track Curve in my 8ft 6 inch wide Shed, there was no room for scenics either side without it looking contrived, especially for a Rural Branch.

The next two pics are from my Bala Town BLT Layout and show the 12ft Scenic Section, leaving 5ft for my swivelling sector Fiddle Yard at the end. 

 

 

I hope this is of some help. BTW B Set and Auto Coaches look silly on Set Track curves IMHO.

 

Good luck, enjoy and stay safe.

 

Thank you Andy; I'm off to look at your Bala Town thread as I really like the look and feel of the station and yard...

 

[Grafarman]

25 minutes ago, Chris116 said:

Having read the other replies I suspect you may want to think about the layout but if you go ahead with basically what you had then here is my alternative.

 

Thank you; yes that makes a whole lot more sense, and the station could be low-relief so saving a bit more, and I could use a traverser for the fiddle yard perhaps...

 

It does seem there's a lot more to think about than meets the eye; good job I'm not in a rush...!

 

 

[Simond]

Can you go outdoors?

[Grafarman]

24 minutes ago, Simond said:

Can you go outdoors?

 

No, I paid enough to have the garage converted so I can't justify setting up outside as well...!

[GWR57xx]

I would echo what others have said. I have a similar space to you and started out with a very similar plan to yours. I wanted to run at least a pannier with auto coach or B set. Before committing too much to the build I did some experiments round different radius curves and found that it just wasn't going to work. On such tight curves the angle between buffers means that the coupling needs to be longer than normal to reach the next vehicle, which could work when the loco is pulling. When the loco is propelling you will get buffer lock unless you modify the stock to prevent it (such as larger buffers or a piece of wire across the buffers).

If you want to run finescale RTR you would need to stick to short wagons and 4 wheel coaches.

I didn't want to restrict myself to that, so I gave up on the idea of a U shaped layout and am now building an end-to-end instead.

[O-Gauge-Phil]

Why not do an end to end but have the fiddle yard end with a 5 road traverser, then go diagonally across to the platform end ending up at say 3' 6" or more, then you have some depth to the layout.  It then gives more space behind the platform for the goods stuff and longer run round. 

Good luck.  

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

I can't see any other solution to this but an L-shaped layout: a 6' traverser fiddle yard at the right hand end leading to a terminus on a curve (Kingsbridge / St Ives)

[Grafarman]

13 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

I can't see any other solution to this but an L-shaped layout: a 6' traverser fiddle yard at the right hand end leading to a terminus on a curve (Kingsbridge / St Ives)

 

Someone else suggested this to me earlier today, so it seems that might be the way to go...thank you for your input 

 

David 

[brossard]

My sector plate is 5' long with 3 tracks.  This is serving a 16' scenic section.  The station is designed to take two 61' B set coaches.

 

 

John