Transparent Derailment Barrier for Fiddleyard

[Ian J.]

Hi all,

 

As I've now finished to a significant point the construction of my S&P fiddleyard boards, I feel I need to tackle the issue of derailment risk.

 

The boards have no barrier at the moment to stop a train that derails falling to the ground. I've looked up a few solutions for a derailment barrier or fence, including cardboard, hardboard, plywood, etc. However, all have the drawback that they are opaque. I'd like to be able to see more of the trains as they run round, so I am drawn to a transparent material.

 

I've read that Perspex (aka acrylic) is not the best solution as it can scratch easily. I've read of polycarbonate here (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/151034-perspex-fence-to-prevent-locos-crashing-to-the-floor/&do=findComment&comment=3813158), but I'm not familiar with it as a material. Can it be bought in 50mm strips? If not, are there available cutting services that could do it?

 

TIA

[rab]

1 hour ago, Ian J. said:

Hi all,

 

As I've now finished to a significant point the construction of my S&P fiddleyard boards, I feel I need to tackle the issue of derailment risk.

 

The boards have no barrier at the moment to stop a train that derails falling to the ground. I've looked up a few solutions for a derailment barrier or fence, including cardboard, hardboard, plywood, etc. However, all have the drawback that they are opaque. I'd like to be able to see more of the trains as they run round, so I am drawn to a transparent material.

 

I've read that Perspex (aka acrylic) is not the best solution as it can scratch easily. I've read of polycarbonate here (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/151034-perspex-fence-to-prevent-locos-crashing-to-the-floor/&do=findComment&comment=3813158), but I'm not familiar with it as a material. Can it be bought in 50mm strips? If not, are there available cutting services that could do it?

 

TIA

Have a look on line. There are quite a few companies that cut acrylic and polycarbonate to size. I recently bought some pieces for a garage conversion after buying a sheet of acrylic and trying, unsuccessfully, to cut it myself. Polycarbonate is more expensive but much tougher. In a previous life we used it for machine guards.

Edited May 11, 2020 by rab

[JDW]

Whilst it's true that materials such as perspex can scratch relatively easily (compared to, say, glass) I think that unless you are constantly rubbing something hard against it (such as hanging a hand held controller on the same spot every day), transporting it to exhibitions, or cleaning it with something abrasive, then it's probably not going to be much of an issue on a home layout. 

[doilum]

There is a material ( I think the trade name was Makrolon) that is used as glass substitute in motorsports. Not cheap!

In most medium sized towns there are firms specialising in display signs. A cold call armed with photos of your project might open the door to their skip where the offcuts go........

[jimwal]

Perspex strips 2.5" wide installed on my fiddleyard

Edited May 12, 2020 by jimwal

[Happy Hippo]

25 minutes ago, doilum said:

There is a material ( I think the trade name was Makrolon) that is used as glass substitute in motorsports. Not cheap!

In most medium sized towns there are firms specialising in display signs. A cold call armed with photos of your project might open the door to their skip where the offcuts go........

They make riot shields from Makrolon.

 

It scratches when you throw bricks and lumps of metal at it!

 

It's very strong.

[Ian J.]

I'm not expecting my layout to go into service with the riot police, but then we didn't expect Trump as POTUS, or the comfy chair with the Spanish Exquisition...

[Ian J.]

8 hours ago, JDW said:

Whilst it's true that materials such as perspex can scratch relatively easily (compared to, say, glass) I think that unless you are constantly rubbing something hard against it (such as hanging a hand held controller on the same spot every day), transporting it to exhibitions, or cleaning it with something abrasive, then it's probably not going to be much of an issue on a home layout. 

 

Even though I'm not planning exhibition of my layout(s), they are designed to be collapsed regularly and manhandled a fair bit (carefully manhandled, that is), so any material that's more likely to get scratched probably will. In that case I'll probably look further into the polycarbonate material.

[rab]

9 hours ago, doilum said:

There is a material ( I think the trade name was Makrolon) that is used as glass substitute in motorsports. Not cheap!

In most medium sized towns there are firms specialising in display signs. A cold call armed with photos of your project might open the door to their skip where the offcuts go........

Makralon is a trade name for polycarbonate.

[jonnyuk]

what a timely thread. Only last night my s15 and 4 carriages ran off the end of my layout. i'd moved a point and not realised, the train then ran through a bunch of siding and off the end of the yet uncompleted section of the layout.

luckily no real damage done, a cracked roof on the s15 and a bent rod (loco runs with a slight wobble now), could of been so much worse.

 

I think i will be sourcing some of the above

 

[doilum]

43 minutes ago, jonnyuk said:

what a timely thread. Only last night my s15 and 4 carriages ran off the end of my layout. i'd moved a point and not realised, the train then ran through a bunch of siding and off the end of the yet uncompleted section of the layout.

luckily no real damage done, a cracked roof on the s15 and a bent rod (loco runs with a slight wobble now), could of been so much worse.

 

I think i will be sourcing some of the above

 

Having had a similar expensive experience thirty years ago I always screw a piece of scrap plywood to the end of a incomplete board. Do not underestimate the momentum of a 7mm locomotive to demolish a temporary buffer stop. The same applies to fiddle yards.

 

[Ian J.]

I think I will probably settle on polycarbonate. I'm thinking either 62.5mm or 75mm strips of 3mm clear, in 1220mm lengths. The reason for the 'thinness' is to have enough flexibility to go round sub 900mm radius curves (but not much less that 900mm). Does this sound OK?

 

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by Ian J.

[doilum]

Eventually covid will pass. Keep an eye on skips for almost full sheets of 6mm polycarbonate that have been used to protect customers and shop workers. I have just been gifted one that came out of a pharmacy refit. A generous spray of Detol and good to go into store!

[doilum]

10 hours ago, Ian J. said:

I think I will probably settle on polycarbonate. I'm thinking either 62.5mm or 75mm strips of 3mm clear, in 1220mm lengths. The reason for the 'thinness' is to have enough flexibility to go round sub 900mm radius curves (but not much less that 900mm). Does this sound OK?

 

 

Yes, should be fine. 6mm will bend with careful use of the heat gun.

Edited April 13, 2021 by doilum

[Ian J.]

9 hours ago, doilum said:

Yes, should be fine. 6mm will bend with careful use of the heat gun.

 

I wondered if it would be. I tested bending a plastic ruler that was approx 2mm thick and it seemed to be fine so I figured that 3mm would probably be OK. I certainly don't want to be having to heat shape the barriers in order for them to fit, if I can possibly avoid doing so.

 

I did look online at shop fittings websites to see what was available in the form of shelf barriers. I don't think they could be repurposed consistently enough for me, unfortunately.

 

So I will be looking online for a polycarbonate supplier who can custom cut the material to 75mm strips of approx 1220mm long. For the curved boards, and the various other non-4'x2' boards, I'll need to cut the strips to the correct length myself. I'm presuming that polycarbonate can be cut simply?

[doilum]

Getting the long lengths precut is a good idea unless you have a band saw. The challenge of power cutting is tendency for long cuts tend to reweld themselves as you cut. The trick is not to stop and keep going!

Short cuts can be easily done with a hack saw. If you use a jig saw use masking tape to prevent scratching and use the finest blade available. If you are sensitive to chemical odours be careful.  On thinner material, score and snap will probably work. Thing is to find the method that works for you with the available tools.

[jonnyuk]

On 13/04/2021 at 08:39, doilum said:

Eventually covid will pass. Keep an eye on skips for almost full sheets of 6mm polycarbonate that have been used to protect customers and shop workers. I have just been gifted one that came out of a pharmacy refit. A generous spray of Detol and good to go into store!

slightly off topic but it will be a year before we see this kind of change. Social distancing and everything that brings is here for some time, they need to get past autumn and winter, if we get past that unscathed (relative) then maybe next year we will be back to "normal".

[Ian J.]

I've made an order with an online shop for a couple of barriers in 2mm and 3mm thickness of acrylic. I chose that as it can be polished, particularly good for a smooth edge.

 

I've now the problem of drilling holes into it. Apparently there are special 90°drill bits (most normal bits are 120°) for acrylic, but there don't seem to be any here in the UK as far as my web searches go, and what I did find (Norseman bits) are from the States, and only available in Imperial - I need a metric set to get a proper 5mm bit.

 

Any ideas where I could get a metric 90°drill bit set from...?

[doilum]

On 13/04/2021 at 22:03, doilum said:

Getting the long lengths precut is a good idea unless you have a band saw. The challenge of power cutting is tendency for long cuts tend to reweld themselves as you cut. The trick is not to stop and keep going!

Short cuts can be easily done with a hack saw. If you use a jig saw use masking tape to prevent scratching and use the finest blade available. If you are sensitive to chemical odours be careful.  On thinner material, score and snap will probably work. Thing is to find the method that works for you with the available tools.

Just an update on my covid gifted poly C. I cut it easily using my brand new Bosch jigsaw ( basic DIY model) and a well used very fine tooth metal cutting blade. The surface was protected by strips of masking tape with perfect results. I mention the brand new status as I hadn't realised what a rough old b***er my previous jigsaw had become. Given the source of my material it was probably top grade too.

In the absence of trick drills I would start with a 2or 3 mm bit and work up in stages.

Edited May 9, 2021 by doilum

[Michael Hodgson]

39 minutes ago, Ian J. said:

I've made an order with an online shop for a couple of barriers in 2mm and 3mm thickness of acrylic. I chose that as it can be polished, particularly good for a smooth edge.

 

I've now the problem of drilling holes into it. Apparently there are special 90°drill bits (most normal bits are 120°) for acrylic, but there don't seem to be any here in the UK as far as my web searches go, and what I did find (Norseman bits) are from the States, and only available in Imperial - I need a metric set to get a proper 5mm bit.

 

Any ideas where I could get a metric 90°drill bit set from...?

Would a special tile cutting but not work ?

Some thing like this ..

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/393308061711?hash=item5b92fcc00f:g:UNMAAOSwS39gliUY

[Ian J.]

3 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Would a special tile cutting but not work ?

Some thing like this ..

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/393308061711?hash=item5b92fcc00f:g:UNMAAOSwS39gliUY

 

I don't believe so. In fact, such a drill might cause even more chipping and/or splitting of the acrylic. The drill for acrylic is as:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Plastic-plexiglass-Polycarbonate-Norseman-BG4600A/dp/B07D1BGH53/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=norseman+drill+bit&qid=1620577015&sr=8-8

 

but that's the U.S. imperial set. I need them in 1mm increments metric. But as @doilum says, I may have to settle for standard metal bits and work up from a very small size to the 5mm hole I'm after.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Ian J.

[rab]

3 hours ago, Ian J. said:

I've made an order with an online shop for a couple of barriers in 2mm and 3mm thickness of acrylic. I chose that as it can be polished, particularly good for a smooth edge.

 

I've now the problem of drilling holes into it. Apparently there are special 90°drill bits (most normal bits are 120°) for acrylic, but there don't seem to be any here in the UK as far as my web searches go, and what I did find (Norseman bits) are from the States, and only available in Imperial - I need a metric set to get a proper 5mm bit.

 

Any ideas where I could get a metric 90°drill bit set from...?

Probably too late as you've placed the order,

but the company I bought mine from will

supply with hole drilled too.

[Dungrange]

51 minutes ago, Ian J. said:

I need them in 1mm increments metric. 

 

https://www.theplasticman.co.uk/products/tools-drill-bits-etc.html

 

They are not 1mm increments, but they have a 3mm and 5mm drill bit, which the website says is specially ground for plastics.  I've no idea if they are of any use.

[Ian J.]

1 hour ago, rab said:

Probably too late as you've placed the order,

but the company I bought mine from will

supply with hole drilled too.

 

I've only placed a 'test' order to get a sense of how well the product is made, and to have a better idea of the 2mm vs 3mm when curving it round baseboard edges. However, when I did look at the options for holes being drilled, they seemed somewhat limited in location and/or distance from edge, so I decided not to opt for the holes being predrilled.

 

20 minutes ago, Dungrange said:

 

https://www.theplasticman.co.uk/products/tools-drill-bits-etc.html

 

They are not 1mm increments, but they have a 3mm and 5mm drill bit, which the website says is specially ground for plastics.  I've no idea if they are of any use.

 

I did notice these in my searches, however the pictures don't fill me with confidence as they all show exactly the same picture, which isn't 'correct' for a 90° cutting point, so I didn't look into them further.

[doilum]

13 hours ago, Ian J. said:

 

I've only placed a 'test' order to get a sense of how well the product is made, and to have a better idea of the 2mm vs 3mm when curving it round baseboard edges. However, when I did look at the options for holes being drilled, they seemed somewhat limited in location and/or distance from edge, so I decided not to opt for the holes being predrilled.

 

 

I did notice these in my searches, however the pictures don't fill me with confidence as they all show exactly the same picture, which isn't 'correct' for a 90° cutting point, so I didn't look into them further.

Is it worth trying a wood bit?. I have not had any real problems apart from the bit tending to seize after break through. This may be partly down to a well worn chuck in my cordless and was resolved by having a pair of mole grips on standby.