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22 hours ago, MarshLane said:

 

Hello Andy,

That would be very gratefully appreciated. I'll drop you a PM with my email if that's easier?  I am really interested in the area from the south end of Dringhouses through to Skelton, but specifically Holgate Junction to York Yard North (via the station or the goods) so anything that you are able/willing to photograph would be very gratefully received.  Thank you.

 

Rich

Hi Rich,

Although about 20 years earlier than your thread title, you may still find this interesting. It's a photo (ebay purchase, courtesy of Trotskee Travel) of D2046 heading a rake of vans from York Yards via the Scarborough Goods lines. I'm 99.99% certain it will be heading for Burton Lane and taking the Foss Islands Branch to serve the Rowntree's factory. This was a regular service over this route until the Waterworks Junction was removed in 1974, the vans then being taken from/to Dringhouses Yard via the station middle roads, until the Rowntree's (by then Nestle) rail traffic ceased and the Foss Islands Branch closure in 1985 (I think).

 

Hope it is of interest.

 

835330848_D2046YorkYardSouth.jpg.13acf2cb5321d2a39c683bdb332c9703.jpg

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1 hour ago, iands said:

Hi Rich,

Although about 20 years earlier than your thread title, you may still find this interesting. It's a photo (ebay purchase, courtesy of Trotskee Travel) of D2046 heading a rake of vans from York Yards via the Scarborough Goods lines. I'm 99.99% certain it will be heading for Burton Lane and taking the Foss Islands Branch to serve the Rowntree's factory. This was a regular service over this route until the Waterworks Junction was removed in 1974, the vans then being taken from/to Dringhouses Yard via the station middle roads, until the Rowntree's (by then Nestle) rail traffic ceased and the Foss Islands Branch closure in 1985 (I think).

 

Hope it is of interest.

 

Hi Ian,

Very much so thank you!  That's wonderful to see.  I was very tempted by the 1970s period, for two reasons - Deltics and vacuum-braked wagonload traffic, but I think the mid-1980s won based on the variety of liveries and the arrival of the TransPennine liveried Mk2s!  But what a shot. Presumably York Yard South box in the background, and look at the wagon variety in the shops at the back … superb!

 

Thanks

Rich

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4 minutes ago, MarshLane said:

 

Hi Ian,

Very much so thank you!  That's wonderful to see.  I was very tempted by the 1970s period, for two reasons - Deltics and vacuum-braked wagonload traffic, but I think the mid-1980s won based on the variety of liveries and the arrival of the TransPennine liveried Mk2s!  But what a shot. Presumably York Yard South box in the background, and look at the wagon variety in the shops at the back … superb!

 

Thanks

Rich

Hi Rich,

Yes, that's the "new" York Yard South signal box (1962), the one it replaced (1903) was opposite it on the Down side.

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York 1951 resignalling yellow peril.

147A931B-B269-4016-86A2-A13CAAB39AE5.jpeg

BE146F21-F2F6-40F8-8A2B-F78838E02C54.jpeg

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There’s more!

A7AF4DCF-823B-4C7A-80C4-C5855C911B24.jpeg

BCC894E3-8D71-493B-A997-EA8D3918E323.jpeg

1FFD8472-056E-4F8A-8464-0E3C94CCB780.jpeg

3DEA44F6-60E4-4120-BDFE-8AA2D6B1944B.jpeg

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And more..........

AA25FFB0-734A-42BD-AFE2-4BEC89F9BA7D.jpeg

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14 hours ago, iands said:

Hi Rich,

Yes, that's the "new" York Yard South signal box (1962), the one it replaced (1903) was opposite it on the Down side.


Hi Ian,

I used to know a signaller, sadly no longer with us, who was (if I recall correctly) in one of the York Yard signal boxes during the war, including the infamous night when the MPD was bombed. Fascinating and lovely chap.


‘That would have been the old 1903 box tho, if it was YYS.

 

Rich

 

 

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10 minutes ago, acg5324 said:

York 1951 resignalling yellow peril.

 

 

Andy,

That is wonderful. Many, many thanks for taking the time to photograph it. What a record ... shows just what went between 1951 and 1985.

 

i know i’ve set myself a large task here, perhaps larger than I thought!

 

Cheers

Rich

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I’ve exceeded the 10mb upload so I’ll try later to get the last two frames loaded.

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1 minute ago, MarshLane said:

 

Andy,

That is wonderful. Many, many thanks for taking the time to photograph it. What a record ... shows just what went between 1951 and 1985.

 

i know i’ve set myself a large task here, perhaps larger than I thought!

 

Cheers

Rich

No problem.

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And the last two.

5C1C56C0-72FB-48DD-A160-76A22E4080E8.jpeg

370897D6-C014-40AD-9E66-0A84729181FB.jpeg

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Those diagrams are fantastic,  real big boys railway in its heyday 

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On 12/05/2020 at 10:17, MarshLane said:

....

I have a track plan of the Dringhouses - Holgate - Station - York Yard North area, but what I am trying to understand are the routes available from each signal .......

 

Hi Rich,

You may be interested to know the following details of just 4 signals in the Holgate Junction area, all legitimate signalled routes at the time of the 1951 resignalling.

 

Y31 (Down Holgate Loop) - 27 Main signal routes, 19 Sub signal routes

Y32 (Down Leeds Main) - 26 Main signal routes, 17 Sub signal routes

Y34 (Down Doncaster Main) - 28 Main signal routes, 20 Sub signal routes, and

Y38 (Holgate Down Reception Sidings) - 12 Main signal routes, 13 Sub signal routes.

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8 hours ago, iands said:

Hi Rich,

You may be interested to know the following details of just 4 signals in the Holgate Junction area, all legitimate signalled routes at the time of the 1951 resignalling.

 

Y31 (Down Holgate Loop) - 27 Main signal routes, 19 Sub signal routes

Y32 (Down Leeds Main) - 26 Main signal routes, 17 Sub signal routes

Y34 (Down Doncaster Main) - 28 Main signal routes, 20 Sub signal routes, and

Y38 (Holgate Down Reception Sidings) - 12 Main signal routes, 13 Sub signal routes.

 

Yes establishing the control panel for this little lot is going to take some working out!!  Thanks Ian!

 

Rich

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21 hours ago, iands said:

Hi Rich,

You may be interested to know the following details of just 4 signals in the Holgate Junction area, all legitimate signalled routes at the time of the 1951 resignalling.

 

Y31 (Down Holgate Loop) - 27 Main signal routes, 19 Sub signal routes

Y32 (Down Leeds Main) - 26 Main signal routes, 17 Sub signal routes

Y34 (Down Doncaster Main) - 28 Main signal routes, 20 Sub signal routes, and

Y38 (Holgate Down Reception Sidings) - 12 Main signal routes, 13 Sub signal routes.

Returning to York from Leeds on a DMU one evening and sitting near the front with a view ahead I must admit to being somewhat unsettled when the train managed to SPAD Y32 by what must have been a good couple of coach lengths:blink: 

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When did the excursion platforms fall out of use at Holgate and why did they exist, similarly Scarborough had one outside the main station.

 

How did these work and why didn't they bring the trains into the main station?

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1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

Returning to York from Leeds on a DMU one evening and sitting near the front with a view ahead I must admit to being somewhat unsettled when the train managed to SPAD Y32 by what must have been a good couple of coach lengths:blink: 

I can well imagine! Obviously (and thankfully) a safe outcome on that occasion...
 

15 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

When did the excursion platforms fall out of use at Holgate and why did they exist, similarly Scarborough had one outside the main station.

 

How did these work and why didn't they bring the trains into the main station?

I am not authority on this, and Mike will likely be able to provide a far better answer, but I believe they were for specials that operated, such as holiday trains at Scarborough or race day specials at York. The platforms allowed such services, which would like have had longer dwell times too, to be accommodated without disrupting normal traffic. Some specials would have used the main platforms, but it just gave extra capacity and relief. I think they were removed at York in the early 70s, having seen out of use since the late 1960s.

 

Rich

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12 minutes ago, MarshLane said:

I can well imagine! Obviously (and thankfully) a safe outcome on that occasion...
 

I am not authority on this, and Mike will likely be able to provide a far better answer, but I believe they were for specials that operated, such as holiday trains at Scarborough or race day specials at York. The platforms allowed such services, which would like have had longer dwell times too, to be accommodated without disrupting normal traffic. Some specials would have used the main platforms, but it just gave extra capacity and relief. I think they were removed at York in the early 70s, having seen out of use since the late 1960s.

 

Rich

 

I believe the Scarborough excursion platforms which was actually a separate station called Londesborogh road station closed about 63 so whether York shut at the same time? The york ones were used for race day specials. 

There were also excursion platforms at redcar and saltburn 

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I forgot about the races, Holgate would have been well placed for all the people to get to the course.

 

One year without a York show and I forget there is a racecourse in York!!

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1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

Returning to York from Leeds on a DMU one evening and sitting near the front with a view ahead I must admit to being somewhat unsettled when the train managed to SPAD Y32 by what must have been a good couple of coach lengths:blink: 

I expect it was equally unnerving for the driver as well Mike. Possibly a case of "familiarity breeding contempt" if the driver was expecting the signal to clear (as it probably did on every previous occasion) but this time didn't, and he had passed his "point of no return" when he realised the signal wasn't going to clear in time.

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Not wishing to take this topic away from the 1980s (!) but as we've been looking at those superb images of the 1951 resignalling, I thought I'd show what the south end of York around Holgate Junction was like after that resignalling went through.  I am very fortunate to class well known photographer Gavin Morrison as a good friend, and he has kindly said he's happy for this image to be posted on rmWeb.  LNER V2 - 60802 leaves York and weaves across from the Up Main (having probably departed from Platform 8(S) and joins the Up Leeds with a service from Newcastle to Leeds, with the South Roundhouse (now under York ROC) and a J94 0-6-0ST in the background.

 

60802.jpg.22123ba47a29f05afe44494485a0972d.jpg

Courtesy (and Copyright) of Gavin Morrison

 

Rich

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The full 1951 Signalling Notice that acg5324 kindly posted above is available at s-r-s.org:

https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/pullfree.asp?FilePath=ArchiveSignals\Downloads\brne&FileName=1951-3905.pdf

 

(As a general tip, hi-Res Signalling diagrams need to be purchased but the Signalling Notices [produced when major changes were implemented] tend to have full diagrams on the last page and are free downloads open to non-members)

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8 hours ago, keefer said:

The full 1951 Signalling Notice that acg5324 kindly posted above is available at s-r-s.org:

https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/pullfree.asp?FilePath=ArchiveSignals\Downloads\brne&FileName=1951-3905.pdf

 

(As a general tip, hi-Res Signalling diagrams need to be purchased but the Signalling Notices [produced when major changes were implemented] tend to have full diagrams on the last page and are free downloads open to non-members)

Yep, that's where I got my copy from. 

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23 hours ago, woodenhead said:

When did the excursion platforms fall out of use at Holgate and why did they exist, similarly Scarborough had one outside the main station.

 

How did these work and why didn't they bring the trains into the main station?

Holgate seems to have been mainly used for race specials, certainly so in their later years, but I think they probably went out of use in the late '50s and were removed  in the 1960s.  Memory (far from infallible si uggests that the platform on the Up side lasted much longer than the other one.

 

Some useful pictures here -

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:York_Racecourse_railway_station

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According to Signalling Centres in the North East: No 1 York (NERA), the Holgate Extension Platforms were last used for York Races in 1939, although they were used in 1957 for an RTCS railtour.

 

They were demolished in 1964, but I'm fairly certain traces of the platforms could be found in the 1970s.

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