New release of Bachmann wagons

[rob D2]

If I had some, I’d sell em for whatever profit I could make . Western Europe = free market economy.

 

I think there was a thought that Bachmann wouldn’t rerun them as the required profit margin would make the RRP so unattractive they wouldn’t shift 

[WILLIAM]

30 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

If I had some, I’d sell em for whatever profit I could make . Western Europe = free market economy.

 

For me however there is a difference between starting them at 99p (or cost) and letting them go to whatever the supply/demand dictates, and starting the auction at £130 through sheer opportunism.

 

Anyway, I don't want to make this a thread about the morals of selling, rather there is clearly a demand so Bachmann, if you can, please make some more JJAs! :-)

Edited October 16, 2020 by WILLIAM

[TomScrut]

Well I think put stuff on for what you want for it, nobody is forcing anyone to buy it.

 

If JJAs were done with an RRP of £50 ish I'd probably have 5. Although between MHAs, IOAs, MRAs and JNAs I aren't struggling for infrastructure wagons. OTOH they are pulled by everything so very good things to have.

Edited October 16, 2020 by TomScrut

[WILLIAM]

I only 'need' two non-generator Railtrack JJAs but made the mistake of assuming Bachmann woud keep releasing them. If they were released in NR yellow however, as mentioned earlier in the thread, I'd be interested in a rake of 5 of those too.

[njee20]

38 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

Well I think put stuff on for what you want for it, nobody is forcing anyone to buy it.

 

If JJAs were done with an RRP of £50 ish I'd probably have 5. Although between MHAs, IOAs, MRAs and JNAs I aren't struggling for infrastructure wagons. OTOH they are pulled by everything so very good things to have.

Weren’t they about that first time round years ago? Given the price of their recent releases wagons and the fact they’ve said that they think they’d be prohibitively expensive I suspect nearer £100 is more likely. 
 

Given the glut of container wagons on the market I’m amazed they bothered to re-release the FIA multifrets (in N at least) for £80 a pair, but deem other models uneconomical, despite there being no reasonable alternatives.  

[Dungrange]

37 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

If JJAs were done with an RRP of £50 ish I'd probably have 5.

I think that's the problem that Bachmann has.  From memory the last run that they did of the JJAs, the Recommended Retail Price was something like £55.  Costs of production in China have risen since then, so a rerun would probably be in the region of £80 and I think Bachmann are hesitant to rerun a wagon in that price bracket.  The number that you'd by at £50 is rather immaterial.

 

They are really nice wagons and I wouldn't mind another four non generator wagons, but I don't really 'need' any more and at that price I'd be hesitant to shell out over £300 for four wagons.

[rob D2]

Generally I think people start their auction price, where , before they would put a reserve....ie the lowest they will take .

 

I can’t see the economics of another run stacking up though still 

[TomScrut]

32 minutes ago, Dungrange said:

I think that's the problem that Bachmann has.  From memory the last run that they did of the JJAs, the Recommended Retail Price was something like £55.  Costs of production in China have risen since then, so a rerun would probably be in the region of £80 and I think Bachmann are hesitant to rerun a wagon in that price bracket.  The number that you'd by at £50 is rather immaterial.

 

They are really nice wagons and I wouldn't mind another four non generator wagons, but I don't really 'need' any more and at that price I'd be hesitant to shell out over £300 for four wagons.

 

Fair dos, if that's what they'll cost then no I wouldn't  want them.

 

Bachmann do (for whatever reason) seem like they are more expensive on wagons vs some others, for example the HKAs vs AS's  IIAs but unfortunately I doubt the market would justify anyone retooling them.

[WILLIAM]

Yes, that's the big question, how much would they need to be to be economically viable for Bachmann and still sell in reasonable numbers? Still less then £130 each I'd hope.

[TomScrut]

41 minutes ago, Dungrange said:

I think that's the problem that Bachmann has.  From memory the last run that they did of the JJAs, the Recommended Retail Price was something like £55.  Costs of production in China have risen since then, so a rerun would probably be in the region of £80 and I think Bachmann are hesitant to rerun a wagon in that price bracket.  The number that you'd by at £50 is rather immaterial.

 

They are really nice wagons and I wouldn't mind another four non generator wagons, but I don't really 'need' any more and at that price I'd be hesitant to shell out over £300 for four wagons.

 

Sorry, phone playing  up, duplicate post 

Edited October 16, 2020 by TomScrut

[njee20]

27 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

Fair dos, if that's what they'll cost then no I wouldn't  want them.

 

Bachmann do (for whatever reason) seem like they are more expensive on wagons vs some others, for example the HKAs vs AS's  IIAs but unfortunately I doubt the market would justify anyone retooling them.

It’s not so much that, but which brand would take on the JJA (or anything else cited here) knowing that Bachmann could just miraculously decide they were viable after all!

 

Makes me quite happy I can 3D print a number of the models mentioned, perhaps I should scale up to OO...!

Edited October 16, 2020 by njee20

[TomScrut]

14 minutes ago, njee20 said:

It’s not so much that, but which brand would take on the JJA (or anything else cited here) knowing that Bachmann could just miraculously decide they were viable after all!

 

Exactly. And as I have mentioned in other threads this week the market in the UK can't IMO support multiples of everything 

[newbryford]

1 hour ago, WILLIAM said:

I only 'need' two non-generator Railtrack JJAs but made the mistake of assuming Bachmann woud keep releasing them. If they were released in NR yellow however, as mentioned earlier in the thread, I'd be interested in a rake of 5 of those too.

 

JJAs have had yellow bands applied, but have never been all over yellow.

The yellow ones are HQAs - which are similar, but different enough to notice.

(Bogies, sideframe detail, handbrake wheels, air tanks and other stuff)

[MRDBLUE17]

I’ve thought a second set of autoballasters with blue painted out and network rail logos applied/ or the yellow stripe as Mick described above, would be quite nice. My original set of 5 have had plenty of use and are very good wagons. When you see 1 on eBay listed at £130, my whole set only cost about that when they first came out.
 

Cheers

Mark

[Tugs]

I'll give in to the wishlisting game, but I'll try to stay true to the OP's plan for the thread...

 

Bachmann wagons that I would snap up given the opportunity of a reissue:

 

• Polybulks
• JJA Autoballasters (ongoing conversations about price notwithstanding)
• JGA Hoppers in RMC orange
• JPA Cement Tanks in Castle Cement grey
• TTA tanks in Aviation Fuel green and petroleum sector/"unbranded" grey
• HHA Hoppers
• HTA Hoppers
• SSA Scrap wagons

I know you can probably find some of them in ones or twos at different shops around the country, but others are the proverbial hens teeth and go for silly money on that place when (if) they do become available. 

[No Decorum]

57 minutes ago, Tugs said:

I'll give in to the wishlisting game, but I'll try to stay true to the OP's plan for the thread...

 

Bachmann wagons that I would snap up given the opportunity of a reissue:

 

• Polybulks
• JJA Autoballasters (ongoing conversations about price notwithstanding)
• JGA Hoppers in RMC orange
• JPA Cement Tanks in Castle Cement grey
• TTA tanks in Aviation Fuel green and petroleum sector/"unbranded" grey
• HHA Hoppers
• HTA Hoppers
• SSA Scrap wagons

I know you can probably find some of them in ones or twos at different shops around the country, but others are the proverbial hens teeth and go for silly money on that place when (if) they do become available. 

Curious the JGAs and the Bachmann way of doing things. Bachmann usually knocks out a wagon in a couple of liveries and if it sells out, does a repeat run in a few years with a different running number. I suddenly realised that Bachmann had produced enough to constitute a reasonable rake and set about trying to find second-hand examples. Some I got, some I didn’t. I think I’ve given up on Bachmann for new wagons now. I’ll be pushing up daisies before there is any chance of a train of EWS HKAs.

[TomScrut]

59 minutes ago, Tugs said:

I know you can probably find some of them in ones or twos at different shops around the country

 

Somebody had some new JPAs in Castle for £30 at the Doncaster show this year. I very very nearly bought them (and regret not doing) but got some PCAs instead, so as you say some are still available in dribs and drabs. As it happens I now have some I bought second hand on Facebook for about that amount!

 

JJAs it seems are still about but tend to be generator ones, and more often than not weathered.

 

Clark Railworks have some Polybulks (https://clarkrailworks.com/collections/oo-gauge/products/Bachmann-oo-4-x-38-427-covered-bogie-hopper-wagon-traffic-services-limited), inflated price at £80 each but not as much as they tend to go for on eBay. Also if they did another run they'd be £60+ I think anyway?

[TomScrut]

Just now, No Decorum said:

Curious the JGAs and the Bachmann way of doing things. Bachmann usually knocks out a wagon in a couple of liveries and if it sells out, does a repeat run in a few years with a different running number. I suddenly realised that Bachmann had produced enough to constitute a reasonable rake and set about trying to find second-hand examples. Some I got, some I didn’t. I think I’ve given up on Bachmann for new wagons now. I’ll be pushing up daisies before there is any chance of a train of EWS HKAs.

 

The issue for me is they do a run of one, maybe 2 numbers at launch in a livery and then one every year or so down the line. I think they are about the only manufacturer who absolutely sticks to this method, Hornby do to an extent but for example in their current range you can find 7 different MHAs if you want them.

 

Look at the HKAs, £50+ and there is one number of each one. AS are doing 14 different HYA coal hoppers (3 liveries, 6 6 2 IIRC), and you can buy them all in a pack averaging £33.51 each.

 

And I think something I have said before, you can reconsruct a decent proportion of the FL HIA fleet Dapol have done so many numbers. I think it's 21 or something now?

 

If that many people can do that then why do Bachmann choose not to? Because they get away without it?

 

Having said that the HKAs do seem to be selling out at the dealers. Whether that is because not many were made (the price could be from lack of economies of scale) or dealers didn't buy many (given the price) and so Bachmann have some there still.

[adb968008]

21 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

Look at the HKAs, £50+ and there is one number of each one. AS are doing 14 different HYA coal hoppers (3 liveries, 6 6 2 IIRC), and you can buy them all in a pack averaging £33.51 each.

 

BAT (Bachmann Added Tax) ?

 

I Think Accurascales price advantage is the organisation size, is that it is a small organisation, which until recently was exclusively Business to Consumer, without retail middle men.
 

Bachmann, Hornby etc are primarily Business to Business trading..they have a lot of baggage to carry.. Account Reps, Management, Spares support, Marketing, Publications, Warehousing, Retailers take their cut whilst preserving your own etc...

 

As Accurascale grows, they too will need to address scalability , logistics & supporting a retail network whilst preserving a margin.  Fill your boots whilst you can.

Edited October 20, 2020 by adb968008

[njee20]

21 hours ago, No Decorum said:

I’ll be pushing up daisies before there is any chance of a train of EWS HKAs.

[/pedant]Well, yes, as there aren’t any EWS HKAs, just ex-NP and DBS[/pedant]
 

I wonder how many people actively seek all the different running numbers versus merely picking up what’s there. Fortunately in N the running numbers are usually so tiny it makes no difference, but given the comparatively low difference I wonder if only offering limited running numbers is based on historic sales performance. To ask that another way, have people held off buying a wagon because of a limited variety of running numbers?

[No Decorum]

5 minutes ago, njee20 said:

[/pedant]Well, yes, as there aren’t any EWS HKAs, just ex-NP and DBS[/pedant]
 

I wonder how many people actively seek all the different running numbers versus merely picking up what’s there. Fortunately in N the running numbers are usually so tiny it makes no difference, but given the comparatively low difference I wonder if only offering limited running numbers is based on historic sales performance. To ask that another way, have people held off buying a wagon because of a limited variety of running numbers?

Point taken. Brain misfire. I meant DBS (I think)!

Have people held off buying a wagon because of a limited variety of running numbers? I have but judging by the sales of the DBS HKAs, I doubt that I matter much.

[WILLIAM]

2 minutes ago, njee20 said:

[/pedant]Well, yes, as there aren’t any EWS HKAs, just ex-NP and DBS[/pedant]
 

I wonder how many people actively seek all the different running numbers versus merely picking up what’s there. Fortunately in N the running numbers are usually so tiny it makes no difference, but given the comparatively low difference I wonder if only offering limited running numbers is based on historic sales performance. To ask that another way, have people held off buying a wagon because of a limited variety of running numbers?

I've done a bit of that in the distant past but I also liked the slight variations in label details & positions you also sometimes got. As discussed above however I have regretted this approach with Bachmann as I'm now strugglng to assemble rakes of some of the most popular wagons that 'Tugs' post above generally lists (not to mention that some are now 5 times the price of when they were first released!).

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, njee20 said:

[/pedant]Well, yes, as there aren’t any EWS HKAs, just ex-NP and DBS[/pedant]
 

I wonder how many people actively seek all the different running numbers versus merely picking up what’s there.

New running numbers on wagons is a relatively new (and successful) marketing technique to encourage us to buy more. But it also kills long term demand..Ive a nice train of HUOs that will probably last longer than me...ive no need for more.

 

Traditional companies have not yet got on board this train, I’d imagine partly because historically they didnt need to (people bought regardless and didnt care) and presumably for retail inventory.. logistically with a retailer network thats a lot to manage.  They have dipped toes in the water, by doing an “a”,”b”, “c” release once the first batch sold out, particularly with coaches, where they ran prefixes too, and occasionally with locos at the same time.

 

But given the size of the traditional company portfolios (dozens of locos, several dozen types of wagons), suddenly multiplying that by 8 or 10 to have simultaneous running numbers I imagine would be logistically tough and financially risky, plus many customer still wont care (I bought 10 DB HKAs, they are same number, I will buy different numbers as a preference, but it wont stop me buying), but with the added bonus that in the future, I may buy a new running number or two, to even the rake and throw a couple of duplicates back to ebay.

 

That said, three packs could be easier for traditional companies to do... Hornby has done it several times, with Ore, MGR, dept wagons etc... but on new wagon toolings i’d imagine that would be enthusiastically taken up more

[TomScrut]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

is a relatively new (and successful) marketing technique to encourage us to buy more. But it also kills long term demand.

 

Maybe so, but most businesses would take the money now if its a guaranteed sale rather than over subsequent years where the market could change, competition may be increased etc., especially when tooling is to be paid off.

 

4 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I Think Accurascales price advantage is the organisation size, is that it is a small organisation, which until recently was exclusively Business to Consumer, without retail middle men.

 

Yes I expect that will be a contributing factor, and there could be additional layers of margin needed based on ownership structure or manufacturing facilities too with Bachmann. Although OTOH one would expect that Accurascale will be expecting to have a decent amount of the baggage you mention before everything piles in next year too?

 

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

That said, three packs could be easier for traditional companies to do.

 

I'd say so, it makes sense too. Most people don't want just 1 wagon, could fit more product onto a container potentially, people handling 1 item for 3 wagons, etc etc would mean the cost per wagon would reduce.

 

3 hours ago, No Decorum said:

Have people held off buying a wagon because of a limited variety of running numbers?

 

Not really in my case but I think it is a nice thing. I only have 1 rake of Bachmann wagons (Tarmac JGA hoppers) and that consists of 3 of 1 number, 2 of another (both of these are the white ones with white lids) and then 2 unique ones (1 each of full grey interim and a white one with grey lid, which whilst it was released like that I don't know if it was like that IRL).

 

But I think it would help with competitive edge when its one rake or another.

 

On 19/10/2020 at 12:11, No Decorum said:

Curious the JGAs and the Bachmann way of doing things. Bachmann usually knocks out a wagon in a couple of liveries and if it sells out, does a repeat run in a few years with a different running number. I suddenly realised that Bachmann had produced enough to constitute a reasonable rake and set about trying to find second-hand examples.

 

Funnily enough your example is similar to mine!

Edited October 20, 2020 by TomScrut

[Roy Langridge]

6 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

Not really but I think it is a nice thing. I only have 1 rake of Bachmann wagons (Tarmac JGA hoppers) and that consists of 3 of 1 number, 2 of another (both of these are the white ones with white lids) and then 2 unique ones (1 each of full grey interim and a white one with grey lid, which whilst it was released like that I don't know if it was like that IRL).

 

Agree with pretty much all you put, but I do disagree that people don't wait for further running numbers. Some will, some won't. Any who wait are potential lost sales - especially when that second run doesn't happen.

Roy