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jools1959

New release of Bachmann wagons

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I would reflect what others have suggested, a re-run of the JJA Autoballaster, but as a 5-wagon set with 5 different wagon numbers. I know have one of the original generators and one 'curved' (is it?) top. I have been waiting for three others to make a set. I like wagon numbers to be different! Ideally though the new 5-wagon set would be de-branded Railtrack and NOT weathered! 

 

I would like to see a upgrading of the FNA nuclear flask to the latest WH Davies design as the original ones (modelled by Bachmann) should have all been withdrawn. They are very similar with new bogies and more support ribs. 

 

Also, the MPV is crying out to be upgraded with a weed killing module for summer use! Shame the special SWT orange and pink ones have returned to ex-Railtrack livery now! The MPV could also, whilst being upgraded, feature a few modules/platforms from the OLE wiring train (not the HOPS which is different). Built in 2005? and can these days be found across the network. Certainly over the years I have seen it on the WCML, Anglia and GWML. I would happily accept a high price for new take on the MPV, understanding it is a niche and small market, but those of us with the cash....want want want! 

 

I would also like to see the BDA? with a new hopper top to make the new DB MXA Lobster. Again, ideally in 5 different wagon numbers. 

 

Those Aviation TTAs would also be welcomed, look good with a Colas 56! 

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37 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

Here's a perspective from someone who has reason to feel the above is unfair.

 

I agree with what you say, as I mentioned further down I was suggesting a tweak of methodology as opposed to completely changing everything. If the big players said "we will make some of these if we get enough interest" I'd be very happy.

 

I definitely don't agree with going 100% mail order, and even though I do a lot of buying online almost all of it is from bricks and mortar shops, and I deliberately mix it up (along with my local shop which despite being a good shop is inconvenient to visit on my part and has no online presence). I do sometimes buy direct from the smaller manufacturers purely as I feel they may need all the help they can get in terms of stability.

 

And maybe I was a bit harsh in the way I worded it and I apologise for that. The word monster was in reference to a factory full of machines and workers needing feeding with work to justify their presence, and was not meant in any disrespect. It was not meant in terms of a board/shareholders/etc.

 

I am more concerned that if companies don't evolve with time then they may fall by the wayside which nobody wants, rather than me wanting to bash larger players.

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Oooh, wishlist time!

 

If a producer makes a really popular wagon in RTR, I'd really like to see a spare numbers sheet. That way, it would be fairly straightforward to extend out your own 'rake'.  The added bonus that the 'new' numbers have the same font as the parent model. With something like a Cambrian colliery (or, Cambrian Combine) model having nearly 10,000 wagons in the real fleet it affords the average RTR modeller the opportunity to create a decent rake. 

 

Also, for pity's sake, don't start 'weathering' wagons with bits of paint daubed on to represent wagon repairs. Wagon owners usually wanted repaired wagon in good condition. After all, that's what they paid for! I

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, 159220 said:

I would reflect what others have suggested, a re-run of the JJA Autoballaster, but as a 5-wagon set with 5 different wagon numbers. I know have one of the original generators and one 'curved' (is it?) top. I have been waiting for three others to make a set. I like wagon numbers to be different! Ideally though the new 5-wagon set would be de-branded Railtrack and NOT weathered! 

 

I do think a 5 wagon set would be the right thing to do. I would prefer NR livery though, maybe that's one of the issues with these! Debranded ones are easy enough to do anyway IF you can get the non generator ones, which is the issue. I think they must have done similar amounts of both when in the real world the ratio is 4:1 AFAIK. I had 3 generator ones I thought I got at a good price, with the intention of buying 4 non generator and selling the other 2 on when I had a rake of 5 but I just lost interest in how difficult they are to get and sold all three at a small loss. Brilliant wagons though.

 

23 minutes ago, 159220 said:

I would like to see a upgrading of the FNA nuclear flask to the latest WH Davies design as the original ones (modelled by Bachmann) should have all been withdrawn. They are very similar with new bogies and more support ribs. 

 

I bet they would fly off the shelves. The older ones fetch up to £50 on eBay at the moment even though Bachmann keep doing more (and therefore supply surely can't be an issue?), so I think that the newer ones would do better still. I know if have at least one of they were the price of the upcoming release of the older style.

Edited by TomScrut

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@TomScrut the NR JJA's is very easy to do. I removed the railtrack branding, bought some yellow vinyl and the black NR logos from railtec transfers.

 

 

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14 hours ago, 159220 said:

I would reflect what others have suggested, a re-run of the JJA Autoballaster, but as a 5-wagon set with 5 different wagon numbers. I know have one of the original generators and one 'curved' (is it?) top. I have been waiting for three others to make a set. I like wagon numbers to be different! Ideally though the new 5-wagon set would be de-branded Railtrack and NOT weathered!

 

Also, the MPV is crying out to be upgraded with a weed killing module for summer use!

Somewhere, I have a picture of a 37 hauling two rakes of the earlier version (Dapol) and an Autoballaster set. All I need is one more autoballaster to replicate it. It seems silly to me that Bachmann didn't produce enough for a complete set. I dread to think what a complete set would cost now but one would have me peering into the depths of my wallet. Selling a complete set would be the only way I could trust being able to assemble a set. Once bitten... 

 

Ah yes, the MPV. A weed killing module would be a cracking idea. Perhaps Bachy thinks that only owners of MPVs would be interested and not all of them either, so it wouldn't be viable. A pity.

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19 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

Selling a complete set would be the only way I could trust being able to assemble a set.

 

Exactly! I bet there are loads of people sat there with partly assembled sets grabbing everything they can afford on eBay.

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On 17/05/2020 at 17:17, spamcan61 said:

Across a product range as broad as Hornby / Bachmann's ...

 

IMHO it's fairly easy to be very customer focused when you're an eager new(ish) niche player with a small product portfolio, much trickier / time consuming when you're a high volume manufacturer with 1000+ product lines.

 

That's a valid point; There is no doubt that the products of the niche manufacturers such as SLW and Accurascale are absolutely top-notch, but building a layout using only their products would not get you very far ! Which is not true of Bachmann and Hornby.

 

Anyway, more 16T minerals (preferably fitted) and a resurrection of the abandoned Prestwin project will do me for now, thanks.

 

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21 hours ago, 159220 said:

I would reflect what others have suggested, a re-run of the JJA Autoballaster, but as a 5-wagon set with 5 different wagon numbers. I know have one of the original generators and one 'curved' (is it?) top. I have been waiting for three others to make a set. I like wagon numbers to be different! Ideally though the new 5-wagon set would be de-branded Railtrack and NOT weathered! 

 

I would like to see a upgrading of the FNA nuclear flask to the latest WH Davies design as the original ones (modelled by Bachmann) should have all been withdrawn. They are very similar with new bogies and more support ribs. 

 

Also, the MPV is crying out to be upgraded with a weed killing module for summer use! Shame the special SWT orange and pink ones have returned to ex-Railtrack livery now! The MPV could also, whilst being upgraded, feature a few modules/platforms from the OLE wiring train (not the HOPS which is different). Built in 2005? and can these days be found across the network. Certainly over the years I have seen it on the WCML, Anglia and GWML. I would happily accept a high price for new take on the MPV, understanding it is a niche and small market, but those of us with the cash....want want want! 

 

I would also like to see the BDA? with a new hopper top to make the new DB MXA Lobster. Again, ideally in 5 different wagon numbers. 

 

Those Aviation TTAs would also be welcomed, look good with a Colas 56! 

I'm surprised Bachmann haven't done this, they have the bogies, hood and buffers already. Would complement an Accurascale 37.

I started to scratchbuild one with a hood from Make Your Mark Models, one day it will get finished although for this wagon there's no suitable transfers....(yet)

aa_whdavisFNA.jpg.1f0b2de7ae55632c9089795ff42619e0.jpg

 

 

 

On 18/05/2020 at 17:32, The Johnster said:

I am less interested in re-issues of wagons in different liveries, as I am happy to re-livery myself so long as transfers are available, but to be fair this may be because I model steam era when there was much less variation in liveries.  But I welcome any new type of wagon that is produced, especially if it is not easily available in kit form, which these days means Parkside or Kitmaster.  

 

The trade has made enormous progress since the days of Triang or HD, but there are still too many older toolings around with generic incorrect chassis and still far too many imaginary liveries; as I said earlier, I would be happier if this were stipulated on the box.  The sort of people who are happy to buy these would continue to do so (Hornby can always make an honest buck with Coca Cola every xmas, and 'Father's Day' wagons are pretty self explanatory, so fair enough), and a better level of trust between manufacturers and retailers' customers would result.

 

Nothing wrong with wishlisting, it can be a good source of information for marketing departments, and I don't think it is off topic to investigate why such wishlisting may always result in a model being produced despite high scoring in the annual poll, which I am sure the trade reads; it would be daft not to!  But talking to reps at shows, and in agreement with D9502's comment above, it looks as if they have had fingers singed, if not quite burned, by listening to 'us'!

 

Perhaps we could have a wishlist topic, but how the Guardians Of The Site (may the blue bird of happiness tap on their windows) would arrange this as well as and separately from the Poll is another matter.

 

Sometimes Mr Johnster its the other way around, the transfers become available but there's no RTR model.... so it can provide the impetuous to have a go at scratchbuilding should you be so inclined,

Steve @Railtec released the Belgian Polybulk to design code E442 so..

 

aa_Polybulk.jpg.7d4b41eb282e490a438f3ca80b5e0b8d.jpg

 

And another favourite, again with Railtec transfers

aa_SheernessJXA.jpg.1b395b0ce31c4c1578a3eff355049a4e.jpg

 

 

Actually there's very few scrap wagons released, Bachmanns POA and HSA but no blackadders or JXA's etc.

 

Ironically, scratchbuilding or building a kit can be precursor to something being released RTR, i know we've all been there :rolleyes:

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, No Decorum said:

Ah yes, the MPV. A weed killing module would be a cracking idea. Perhaps Bachy thinks that only owners of MPVs would be interested and not all of them either, so it wouldn't be viable. A pity.

I hope that is not their thinking, though the MPV RHTT fleet is limited to Totton, Horsham, Effingham Junction, Wigan, Slateford and Mossend. The April to September BB/JSD weedspraying MPV modules are seen across the entire UK rail network. Fingers crossed Bachmann are listening! For those interested: http://www.jsdrail.com/engineering/mpv-weed-spray-support/4.htm

You could always include in the box, RHTT modules too, for those who do not want to weedspray. And you could upgrade the MPV lights to the latest LED standard...

 

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49 minutes ago, D9502 said:

Would complement an Accurascale 37.

 

And given Accurascale already are on with/have made 2 nuclear flask wagons you wouldn't put it past them doing another.

 

Although the KUAs are cool my favourite nuclear wagons are the KXA I think, would like to see some of these:

 

68025 6Z70 Eastleigh

 

Wheely Heavy

 

Back and Forth.

 

Whilst there are more of these than KUAs I don't think these are very well travelled so pics are rare. I think they literally go between Sellafield and the docks. From what I can tell the flasks themselves need to be of that design for cooling as the contents are still generating heat!

 

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Hi Tom

 

Agreed, another wagon that’s niggling on my ‘to do list’, the modern KXA is a beast of a wagon, I’ve seen photos of it disassembled at Eastleigh so they do travel.

 

Again, would look nice behind a Dapol 67....

 

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I don't know whether it strictly fits in with wagons.

 

But more Tartan Arrow vans and whilst they are at it the containers would be nice.   :)

 

 

 

 

Jason

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22 hours ago, No Decorum said:

Somewhere, I have a picture of a 37 hauling two rakes of the earlier version (Dapol) and an Autoballaster set. All I need is one more autoballaster to replicate it. It seems silly to me that Bachmann didn't produce enough for a complete set. I dread to think what a complete set would cost now but one would have me peering into the depths of my wallet. Selling a complete set would be the only way I could trust being able to assemble a set. Once bitten... 

 

Ah yes, the MPV. A weed killing module would be a cracking idea. Perhaps Bachy thinks that only owners of MPVs would be interested and not all of them either, so it wouldn't be viable. A pity.

 

Unless I have missed something, Bachmann did produce enough for a complete set, all you need to do is renumber a single model. Also they don't just run in sets of five. there are pictures of trains with less in, one recently worked to Whitby with i think 10x HQA autoballasters and i think two JJAs

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Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, daz9284 said:

 

Unless I have missed something, Bachmann did produce enough for a complete set, all you need to do is renumber a single model. Also they don't just run in sets of five. there are pictures of trains with less in, one recently worked to Whitby with i think 10x HQA autoballasters and i think two JJAs

 

Your first sentence completely contradicts itself! Did they do enough or not? I think not.

 

RT/debranded RT JJA as far as I am aware:

 

In 2008:

 

1 gen 2 non gen all pristine

38-210

38-211

38-212

 

In 2011:

 

1 gen 1 non gen both pristine

38-210A

38-212A

 

In 2014:

 

1 gen 1 non gen both weathered

38-210B

38-212B

 

So there isn't a way of making a consistent set without renumbering one as you say.

 

They do generally run in 5s AFAIK and the generator ones are outnumbered by non generator ones by about 4 to 1.

 

The thing is, doing 3 versions, then 2 more 3 years later and so on when they tend to run in blocks of 5 isn't like attracting buyers IMO. And then following on with 2 weathered ones which wouldn't really go well with the first lot as I think these are debranded too. It's neither here nor there!

 

But, the issue isn't really with numbers of wagons, I'd be happy with 4 non gen all the same TBH. The problem is it would seem that there are 3 generators for every 4 non generators assuming equal numbers were made if each variation. So making near prototypical sets is near impossible for a lot of people.

 

These would be my ideal ones, with the paint/corrosion weathered but not dirty which is normally what weathering actually seems to represent:

 

12987 Hoo Junction 110517

 

Edited by TomScrut
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Very good point, Tom.  Weathering should mean rust streaks, faded paint, minor damage to the finish; dirt is just as necessary if you want to create the impression of a well used vehicle but is a different thing to weathering.  A lot of RTR weathering is little more than a spray of brake block dust colour.

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, TomScrut said:

Although the KUAs are cool my favourite nuclear wagons are the KXA I think, would like to see some of these:

 

Whilst there are more of these than KUAs I don't think these are very well travelled so pics are rare. I think they literally go between Sellafield and the docks. From what I can tell the flasks themselves need to be of that design for cooling as the contents are still generating heat!

 

 

Fascinating! Thank you, I have spent an enjoyable morning looking into these KXA-C, WH Davies built wagons for International Nuclear Services (part of the NDA, as per DRS). Cannot find date of build, but there are drawings if anyone wants, here:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=14&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjf8Ja32MLpAhWcZxUIHX_-CG8QFjANegQIBhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Frwm.nda.gov.uk%2Fpublication%2Freview-of-the-standard-waste-transport-container-size-and-alternative-options%2F%3Fdownload&usg=AOvVaw32xyVEexCDtL-ePPBkWA3L.

Seem's the KXA-C purpose was for the Vitrified Residue Returns program which was finally started in 2009 (having once been planned back in 1976). The flasks carry vitrified (glassed) high level spent nuclear waste in 28 canisters (producing a maximum thermo output of 40 Kw) which has been processed from the Sellafield Waste Vitrification Plant and placed into Castor HAW 28 cylinder flask as seen above. Over 1850 flasks are in the process of being repatriated to Germany, Switzerland, Japan, Netherlands and Italy. The KXA-C are used between Sellafield and Barrow Docks. The VRR program was expected in 2009 to run for 10 years. Additionally it appears the KXA-C can carry the French version, a TN28 flasks (unsure why this type has visited the UK?). Another flask carried by the wagon is the MOX fuel M4/12 between Sellafield and Japan (naturally the French have a different design, a TN12/2, but not seen photographic proof of these in the UK, carried by KXA-C). Mind blogging how much money we, as UK taxpayers are losing on the clear up of nuclear activity, plenty of wind out there! Still, makes some cracking models! I thoroughly enjoyed my mornings research and thought to summaries here!

 

Back to wagons, Bachmann have already produced and could re-run.... 

 

21 hours ago, D9502 said:

I'm surprised Bachmann haven't done this, they have the bogies, hood and buffers already. Would complement an Accurascale 37.

I started to scratchbuild one with a hood from Make Your Mark Models, one day it will get finished although for this wagon there's no suitable transfers....(yet)

aa_whdavisFNA.jpg.1f0b2de7ae55632c9089795ff42619e0.jpg

 

I did not know Bachmann make Barber BER 22.5 bogies in OO? The only Barber BER bogies I have seen in OO are the 20.5 for Revolution's FWA and 14.25 for Dapol's IDA? The former FNA had standard Y25 I thought? The BER 22.5 would come in perfectly handy for the KXA-C above! Anyway, nice scratch build....Bachmann if you are watching....please release these! 

Edited by 159220
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51 minutes ago, 159220 said:

Mind blogging how much money we, as UK taxpayers are losing on the clear up of nuclear activity,

 

Isn't the idea that Sellafield is run as a business and so other countries pay for their work to offset ours? Or does that make too much sense for something run by the government!

 

Interesting stuff I will take a look

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52 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

Isn't the idea that Sellafield is run as a business and so other countries pay for their work to offset ours? Or does that make too much sense for something run by the government!

 

Interesting stuff I will take a look

IIRC it dates back to the days of the THORP project, where 'used' fuel rods were treated to produce new fuel rods. The UK on its own didn't produce enough raw material to make the development of the plant viable, so agreements were set up with France and Germany to take their used rods, and exchange them for new ones. The material was delivered by rail, until the opening of the Channel Tunnel, but now uses coastal shipping.  This gives more info:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_Oxide_Reprocessing_Plant

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Posted (edited)
On 20/05/2020 at 15:54, 159220 said:

 

Fascinating! Thank you, I have spent an enjoyable morning looking into these KXA-C, WH Davies built wagons for International Nuclear Services (part of the NDA, as per DRS). Cannot find date of build, but there are drawings if anyone wants, here:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=14&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjf8Ja32MLpAhWcZxUIHX_-CG8QFjANegQIBhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Frwm.nda.gov.uk%2Fpublication%2Freview-of-the-standard-waste-transport-container-size-and-alternative-options%2F%3Fdownload&usg=AOvVaw32xyVEexCDtL-ePPBkWA3L.

Seem's the KXA-C purpose was for the Vitrified Residue Returns program which was finally started in 2009 (having once been planned back in 1976). The flasks carry vitrified (glassed) high level spent nuclear waste in 28 canisters (producing a maximum thermo output of 40 Kw) which has been processed from the Sellafield Waste Vitrification Plant and placed into Castor HAW 28 cylinder flask as seen above. Over 1850 flasks are in the process of being repatriated to Germany, Switzerland, Japan, Netherlands and Italy. The KXA-C are used between Sellafield and Barrow Docks. The VRR program was expected in 2009 to run for 10 years. Additionally it appears the KXA-C can carry the French version, a TN28 flasks (unsure why this type has visited the UK?). Another flask carried by the wagon is the MOX fuel M4/12 between Sellafield and Japan (naturally the French have a different design, a TN12/2, but not seen photographic proof of these in the UK, carried by KXA-C). Mind blogging how much money we, as UK taxpayers are losing on the clear up of nuclear activity, plenty of wind out there! Still, makes some cracking models! I thoroughly enjoyed my mornings research and thought to summaries here!

 

Back to wagons, Bachmann have already produced and could re-run.... 

 

 

I did not know Bachmann make Barber BER 22.5 bogies in OO? The only Barber BER bogies I have seen in OO are the 20.5 for Revolution's FWA and 14.25 for Dapol's IDA? The former FNA had standard Y25 I thought? The BER 22.5 would come in perfectly handy for the KXA-C above! Anyway, nice scratch build....Bachmann if you are watching....please release these! 

 

I used the HHA hopper bogies which i think are Powel Duffryn TF25 'track friendly' bogies, they are also on the Bachmann JGA cement wagons.

 

My apologies- they're the wrong bogie for the WH Davis flasks! :blush: But since the profile is similar I'll use them.

Edited by D9502

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On 20/05/2020 at 11:06, TomScrut said:

 

Your first sentence completely contradicts itself! Did they do enough or not? I think not.

 

RT/debranded RT JJA as far as I am aware:

 

In 2008:

 

1 gen 2 non gen all pristine

38-210

38-211

38-212

 

In 2011:

 

1 gen 1 non gen both pristine

38-210A

38-212A

 

In 2014:

 

1 gen 1 non gen both weathered

38-210B

38-212B

 

So there isn't a way of making a consistent set without renumbering one as you say.

 

They do generally run in 5s AFAIK and the generator ones are outnumbered by non generator ones by about 4 to 1.

 

The thing is, doing 3 versions, then 2 more 3 years later and so on when they tend to run in blocks of 5 isn't like attracting buyers IMO. And then following on with 2 weathered ones which wouldn't really go well with the first lot as I think these are debranded too. It's neither here nor there!

 

But, the issue isn't really with numbers of wagons, I'd be happy with 4 non gen all the same TBH. The problem is it would seem that there are 3 generators for every 4 non generators assuming equal numbers were made if each variation. So making near prototypical sets is near impossible for a lot of people.

 

These would be my ideal ones, with the paint/corrosion weathered but not dirty which is normally what weathering actually seems to represent:

 

12987 Hoo Junction 110517

 

 

I see your point about the weathered ones. I had 1x generator, 1x flat top, 2x different numbered curved top and one additional duplicate curved top which i renumbered (an easy job to be honest). I don't see the problem with renumbering. it isn't as if Bachmann released 20 odd HTA's or HHA's for a complete rake.

 

and the JJA's run in whatever number NR want. the other week there as only two or three JJAs on a ballast trip to whity (with 10 or 15 HQAs).

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6 minutes ago, daz9284 said:

I don't see the problem with renumbering.

 

No but the bigger issue is the numerical difference between types. Non generators outnumber generator ones massively in real life, not in model life.

 

7 minutes ago, daz9284 said:

JJA's run in whatever number NR want. the other week there as only two or three JJAs on a ballast trip to whity (with 10 or 15 HQAs).

 

This will be an exception to the norm. Look on Flickr they are almost always in multiples of 5, with 1 generator and 4 non generator in every block of 5.

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10 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

No but the bigger issue is the numerical difference between types. Non generators outnumber generator ones massively in real life, not in model life.

 

 

This will be an exception to the norm. Look on Flickr they are almost always in multiples of 5, with 1 generator and 4 non generator in every block of 5.

 

well just buy four non generator ones and renumber them. simples.

 

from seeing various ones and being in various yards i would say about 95% are in blocks of 5 with 1 genertor, 3 curved top and at least 1 flat top

 

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2 minutes ago, daz9284 said:

well just buy four non generator ones and renumber them. simples

 

That's the issue we have been talking about, availability...

 

When (and that's not common), non generator ones come up they are very much fought over.

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51 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

That's the issue we have been talking about, availability...

 

When (and that's not common), non generator ones come up they are very much fought over.

arr, I understand what you mean now. I just thought you meant the lack of different number ones.

 

Yes they are rare. I looked at buying another rake to convert to HQA's

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