Hornby class 25 upgrade

[RobMG]

I have completed upgrading an old Hornby class  25 with of course a respray and transfers from Railtec,  I have lowered the chassis on the bogies, a vast improvement,  Fitted tanks from Brassmasters also great improvement.  In lowering the chassis I halved the depth  of the frames/ solebar,  So that improves the look immensely but doesn't cure the problem completely.Laserglaze fitted, how b====y fiddly was that !!! but it does look better, and of course I wanted a finer scale look to the wheels, and to get rid of the dreadful rubber tyres !!!!!    That wasn't quite so easy. First of all I searched rmweb to see what other people might have done, BUT nothing !,  So I set about it myself.  As I model in 00gauge I bought some Hornby coach wheels.  I then removed the original wheels and pressed out the gears to re use.  Problem there is the gears have resess which means if I cut the gear away from the spigot that is pressed into the wheels, I would be left with just a gear ring, and I needed to be able to fit the whole thing to the axle to centre the gear..   I did eventually  devise a way of doing it , but I need to show pictures to explain it more easily. Unfortunately I can't post pictures here without going through a fiddly process.  I want to be able to post any picture like I can on most other sites, but for some reason I can't here.....  I will try to explain in words, but not today.   All I can say is the loco looks good and runs very well, very smooth and very quiet , and looks as good as anything produced today, and better than a Bachmann.  

I am really pleased with it.   I want to do similar with an Airfix class 31 next.   When I have finished my Lima 33.  I am fitting Alan Gibson coach wheels with sleeved axles on that one..  

Sorry no pics, I would love to post some...

 

Rob

[Mainlinefreighter58]

Ultrascale do wheels for the old ringfield type Chassis locos, there is a waiting list though 

[Mainlinefreighter58]

https://www.ultras thcale.uk/eshop/products/view/CAT007/354

try these

[andyman7]

If you are OK with the Hornby Ringfield type wheels themselves, the easiest way to get rid of the traction tyres is to substitute the geared wheels as used on the trailing bogie - to save tooling costs, even though they aren't driven they have the gear integrally moulded with the insulated centre so it is a straight swap. The required wheelsets are obtainable as spares on ebay etc.

[RobMG]

8 hours ago, Mainlinefreighter58 said:

Ultrascale do wheels for the old ringfield type Chassis locos, there is a waiting list though 

I know they do them, but I didn't want to wait.I take too long anyway with my models, so I decided to do my own. 

[RobMG]

19 hours ago, Mainlinefreighter58 said:

https://www.ultras thcale.uk/eshop/products/view/CAT007/354

try these

Thak you for the interesting info. I did know about ultrascale, but knew there was a long wait for them, so I devised a method of using the original gears on Hornby coach wheels. 

They ended up looking much the same as the Ultrascale wheels pictured.  They work very well too.  I have devised yet another and possibly better way of doing them which involves turning small bushes on my lathe. Should be quick and easy. I will do this next time I need to convert a Hornby bogie.

cheers Rob

[RobMG]

20 hours ago, andyman7 said:

If you are OK with the Hornby Ringfield type wheels themselves, the easiest way to get rid of the traction tyres is to substitute the geared wheels as used on the trailing bogie - to save tooling costs, even though they aren't driven they have the gear integrally moulded with the insulated centre so it is a straight swap. The required wheelsets are obtainable as spares on ebay etc.

Hi, I did consider doing just that, and turning the flanges down to a respectible profile, but didn't because the Hornby wheels are too small diameter. 

Rob

[Lee Clarke]

Can you post pics somewhere or a video on YouTube, I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to see what you've done, also have you fitted working lights, DCC with sound ?  

(YouTube is probably easiest and video is better than stills) 

[Guest Half-full]

4 hours ago, Lee Clarke said:

Can you post pics somewhere or a video on YouTube, I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to see what you've done, also have you fitted working lights, DCC with sound ?  

(YouTube is probably easiest and video is better than stills) 

I disagree, stills are much better than video

[Lee Clarke]

14 minutes ago, Half-full said:

I disagree, stills are much better than video

Agreed for studying visual detail, ......but if there's DCC with the most accurate sound decoder and speaker combination that anyone has ever heard,......and if we want to see the model moving.....stills won't allow us to fully appreciate it 

[Guest Half-full]

The OP hasnt stated whether he uses DCC or not, his post is about the upgrading of his model, which is best explained by photographs along with the text already provided

 

A video wont convey the full effect of a sound decoder either

[RobMG]

I can post pics on a FB group I belong to, In fact I already have.

I don't do dcc , I have no interest in sound effects.  I prefer my locos to run as smoothly and quietly as possible.  

I find DC does the job for me. 

Before I do anything about posting pics on FB,  I will get my partner to try to sort putting some pics on here, she promised she would a couple of weeks ago.  It just seems like a total faf to do.  It is so easy on FB to post pictures.   So bear with me for a bit longer please..

 

Rob

[Guest Half-full]

55 minutes ago, RobMG said:

I can post pics on a FB group I belong to, In fact I already have.

I don't do dcc , I have no interest in sound effects.  I prefer my locos to run as smoothly and quietly as possible.  

I find DC does the job for me. 

Before I do anything about posting pics on FB,  I will get my partner to try to sort putting some pics on here, she promised she would a couple of weeks ago.  It just seems like a total faf to do.  It is so easy on FB to post pictures.   So bear with me for a bit longer please..

 

Rob

Would be great to see the result Rob.  I'm not a facebook user.

 

It can seem a faff getting photos on here but once you do it once it's easy

 

[RobMG]

Here are a few pics,  Ask any questions and I will Attempt to explain. 

I will with the aid of hand drawn diagrams explain I did the wheel conversion, But will do that tomorrow. 

I still have some work to do yet, glazing to be finished,  Screw couplings to be fitted, Cab interiors.  etc

I will do a little video of it running on a piece of test track . I will do that on Monday.

Rob

[Lee Clarke]

On 14/05/2020 at 15:06, Half-full said:

The OP hasnt stated whether he uses DCC or not, his post is about the upgrading of his model, which is best explained by photographs along with the text already provided

 

A video wont convey the full effect of a sound decoder either

No a video won't give us the full effect of a sound fitted loco, but it's the next best thing short of meeting up with the OP 

 

(The OP has now said there's no sound fitted so it's irrelevant) 

[RobMG]

I have in fact stated that I don't use DCC.   It is of no interest to me.  I do not want sound, and as I will only run one loco at a time , I don't need the expense or complication of it . DC is perfectly adequate for me.

Cheers for now,

 

Rob

[Guest Half-full]

6 hours ago, RobMG said:

I have in fact stated that I don't use DCC.   It is of no interest to me.  I do not want sound, and as I will only run one loco at a time , I don't need the expense or complication of it . DC is perfectly adequate for me.

Cheers for now,

 

Rob

Its looking great Rob, always good to see an old model being fettled.  Newer isn't always better

 

I run DCC, but not sound (I've not been convinced by it yet, but looking forward to hearing Accurascales Deltic), and the majority of lighting is kept off or dimmed

[RobMG]

Hi Half full,

My experience of sound equipped locos is at exhibitions only, but I have never been impressed.  It has been too loud for one.   As I probably  mentioned in an earlier post, I like my locos to run very quietly. I hate the sound of whirring gears. If I can hear the wheels going over rail joints that is great.  The other sounds , my imagination is good enough.   

Models that attempt to sound like the real thing , usually don't, and I find it adds a toy like quality to them. Rather like kids dolls that cry and say mama....  For me not necessary.

As for older models, well if they were good in the first place, they are worth doing something with.  I think mine is better looking than the Bachmann 25.  The mechanism might not be as sophisticated, but it runs well, and has plenty of weight in the right place. It's pulling power is sufficient for my needs.   It can if I give it too much welly when starting off get severe wheelslip, but isn't that so with the real thing ?    So that being the case, it needs to be driven like the real thing, which means ultra slow starting and build up of speed.  It is very convincing driven that way.  Having proper pickups on all wheels helps a lot too. 

I am pretty pleased with it. not so with the Laserglaze which I cannot find a reliable way of keeping in place without ruining the surface. 

Thank you for your comments.  I must do some pictures etc on how I did the wheel conversion. I should taken photos as I did the job, but didn't give it a thought.  So I will draw diagrams, and post them.

cheers for now

 

Rob

[Dagworth]

I was lucky to pick up a second hand class 25 in my local shop, at a very good price due to it having no couplings. It looked good and ran well when tested in the shop so I didn’t look to closely at it. Only when I got it home did I realise what I’d got, a Bachmann chassis with a Hornby body, very nicely repainted, weathered and detailed. I put a cheap decoder into it and it is one of my best running locos, very pleased with it. Not bad for 40 quid! 
 

Andi

[Guest Half-full]

2 hours ago, RobMG said:

Hi Half full,

My experience of sound equipped locos is at exhibitions only, but I have never been impressed.  It has been too loud for one.   As I probably  mentioned in an earlier post, I like my locos to run very quietly. I hate the sound of whirring gears. If I can hear the wheels going over rail joints that is great.  The other sounds , my imagination is good enough.   

Models that attempt to sound like the real thing , usually don't, and I find it adds a toy like quality to them. Rather like kids dolls that cry and say mama....  For me not necessary.

As for older models, well if they were good in the first place, they are worth doing something with.  I think mine is better looking than the Bachmann 25.  The mechanism might not be as sophisticated, but it runs well, and has plenty of weight in the right place. It's pulling power is sufficient for my needs.   It can if I give it too much welly when starting off get severe wheelslip, but isn't that so with the real thing ?    So that being the case, it needs to be driven like the real thing, which means ultra slow starting and build up of speed.  It is very convincing driven that way.  Having proper pickups on all wheels helps a lot too. 

I am pretty pleased with it. not so with the Laserglaze which I cannot find a reliable way of keeping in place without ruining the surface. 

Thank you for your comments.  I must do some pictures etc on how I did the wheel conversion. I should taken photos as I did the job, but didn't give it a thought.  So I will draw diagrams, and post them.

cheers for now

 

Rob

The main things with sound that don't grab me are the lack of bass, and the horns!  The horns on just about all sound decoders I've heard just remind me of a kid emulating them!!!  This is all down to the speakers used though.  Another thing is the braking, too often you see the model stop, then hear the brakes squeal! 

 

I do appreciate the work that goes into capturing all the sounds of of a loco/unit, must be hard work doing all the coding to get them to work with the actual model.  I know that with some of the more advanced decoders you can drive the loco to get a prototypical sound response, braking effects etc.  Still not for me, though I'm not saying never to it.

 

Dont get me started on lighting!!!!!!

 

Re the Laserglaze, have you tried holding them in place with a little PVA or a varnish?

[Barclay]

That's a great looking loco and it makes me want to pull mine out of the drawer and do some work to it - had it for 40 years, not used it for at least 30, but I remember it ran really smoothly, and that I converted it to class 25/0.  I've been looking at the Brassmasters tanks - do they cover all the options, as there seems to be a bewildering variety of tank shapes and sizes?

[RobMG]

6 hours ago, Dagworth said:

I was lucky to pick up a second hand class 25 in my local shop, at a very good price due to it having no couplings. It looked good and ran well when tested in the shop so I didn’t look to closely at it. Only when I got it home did I realise what I’d got, a Bachmann chassis with a Hornby body, very nicely repainted, weathered and detailed. I put a cheap decoder into it and it is one of my best running locos, very pleased with it. Not bad for 40 quid! 
 

Andi

Better than not bad, that was brilliant. Lucky you.  Mine cost me £15 from my local model shop. It was in a box of bits, and had been there for ages.  They were asking £25 for I offered £15 and my offer was accepted, bacause it was a non runner. I had it running in about 5 minutes.  Just connected a couple of wires. It ran really slowly which puzzled me at first, until I stripped the bogie took the wheels out and found the axle to be seized cleaned them re assemled it and it ran spot on.  I since changed the wheels anyway, but at least I knew I was in with a chance.   It's a much better looking loco than my Bachmann 25..

[RobMG]

3 hours ago, Barclay said:

That's a great looking loco and it makes me want to pull mine out of the drawer and do some work to it - had it for 40 years, not used it for at least 30, but I remember it ran really smoothly, and that I converted it to class 25/0.  I've been looking at the Brassmasters tanks - do they cover all the options, as there seems to be a bewildering variety of tank shapes and sizes?

I think they possibly do cover the different types,  I wanted to do mine as the early liveried loco the Hornby model was based on . I found quite a few photos of it in green . I got the tanks to match the pics. Brassmasters certainly do other types but not certain if all.  Looking at various photos I reckon you could find the right ones.  

The key is to have pictures of the loco you want to do.   On some they removed the steam heating boiler and also the water tank. I am sure that would be an easy option. using the same parts I got. 

I was going to make the tanks until I discovered that B/masters were making them again.

You are right there is a bewildering amount of subtypes with these diesel locos.  You must refer to pics.... 

The correct buffers you can get from SLW  . Buffer beam detail is hard to determine too, I copied pics as best I could but it is a sort of compromise . It looks ok, and there's not many people who would argue...

Good luck with it, they are a great looking model. 

 

Rob

[RobMG]

Btw 

, if you are doing a 25/0 I think you can use the same tanks that I used.... Brassmasters  A417 & A418

I fitted Hornby coach wheels using the original gears..... tricky but I managed it....

You need loads of weight especially over the bogie,  It  will pull at least 6 free rolling coaches or up to 20 free rolling wagons. Maybe more if you drive it with care, IE not too much welly..

 

Rob

[RobMG]

Half - Full, 

The Laserglaze,  I have used Johnsons clear as advised  somewhere here, that doesn't  seem very reliable.I have since used Kristal Klear, I hope that will do the trick, but it is so fiddly to fit the damned stuff. I still have some to finish. when I can face the exhaustion of it..   Would you believe I bought a kit of windows for an Airfix auto coach !!!!!!!   I will book a room at a mental hospital before starting that one...