Hornby class 25 upgrade

[John Tomlinson]

I'm interested in the comments re.Laserglaze. I've never used it, clearly some people regard it as the greatest thing ever, some the opposite.

 

What I can't see is how to avoid the vulnerability of something that is only stuck on a very thin edge, and that assumes you've managed to get it to stick at all,  and evenly in the aperture. The South East Finecast flushglazing product, inferior as it is in appearance, does have a lip that can be glued behind the window, which gives somewhat more adhesive strength - even then a moment's absent mindedness can still put a window in.

 

I do like what you've done with the 25, as someone else said it's alway good to see old models that are sound in principle enhanced. Bit cheaper than SLW as well!

 

John.

[RobMG]

26 minutes ago, John Tomlinson said:

I'm interested in the comments re.Laserglaze. I've never used it, clearly some people regard it as the greatest thing ever, some the opposite.

 

What I can't see is how to avoid the vulnerability of something that is only stuck on a very thin edge, and that assumes you've managed to get it to stick at all,  and evenly in the aperture. The South East Finecast flushglazing product, inferior as it is in appearance, does have a lip that can be glued behind the window, which gives somewhat more adhesive strength - even then a moment's absent mindedness can still put a window in.

 

I do like what you've done with the 25, as someone else said it's alway good to see old models that are sound in principle enhanced. Bit cheaper than SLW as well!

 

John.

I am not sure what to think about it. It can look really good, but it is not easy to fit, and once fitted it almost seems that you daren't touch the model for fear of it falling off.   The concept is great but there must be a better way.  I am sure there are people who can fit it without a problem, but I am not one of them.  The S E finecast  doesn't as you say look as good, but it is less traumatic to use. 

I would love an SLW  Sulzer and if my missus would just look the other way for a moment I would get one. 

 

Rob

[muddy water]

Hi! Strangely, I had been start to do up an old class 25 last week. Smoothing down the cab fronts to remove the doors. I did look at swapping the wheels for coach wheels as they have the same diameter axles and chopping of the gears. ( you can do that on Lima engines, but they have thicker axles!) Ran in to the same problem you did!

is they a Facebook link I can follow or have you got photos on here to see now? Thanks!

[RobMG]

On 18/05/2020 at 18:02, muddy water said:

Hi! Strangely, I had been start to do up an old class 25 last week. Smoothing down the cab fronts to remove the doors. I did look at swapping the wheels for coach wheels as they have the same diameter axles and chopping of the gears. ( you can do that on Lima engines, but they have thicker axles!) Ran in to the same problem you did!

is they a Facebook link I can follow or have you got photos on here to see now? Thanks!

Hello,  Sorry I didn't see your post until just now.

Yes I have promised to do a how to on converting to Hornby or indeed any other wheels.  

I didn't unfortunately take any pictures as I was doing this , so will draw some diagrams of how I did it.  I will do this today, and post pics on here later or tomorrow morning.  

I thought of a method which I used, it might not be the best way but it works very well. I have another variation on this which will do next time. 

As you say Lima wheels are easier, except for the axle size. Lima use 2.5mm axles instead of 2mm.  What I did was to purchase some brass tube 2mm id x 2.5mm od  from this I was able to cut sleeves which solved that problem.   I did take pics of that conversion, and will sort them out to post here.

 

Rob

[RobMG]

Modifying Hornby  class 25 bogie wheels .  As promised here is my attempted explanation of how to fit Hornby  etc wheels in place of the original rubber tyred wheels. 

First remove the existing wheels from bogie, which requires pressing the axle out.   The gear is pressed in to the wheel , more pressing . I used my Unimat lathe  by holding the rim in the chuck  and pressing the gear out so it drops beneath the lathe bed providing you with 15 minutes of cursing and searching to find it. However having the gear out you will see there is a recess in the gearwheel  which needs filling. I used superglue to do this, as shown on my picture. Be careful to make sure the glue only goes into the recess, and is level with the surface. DO NOT allow it to get on the gear teeth..  Having done this, you must make certain it cannot tip and allow the glue to run out.  You must then leave it somewhere safe for the glue to set. up to 24 hrs.  When set you need to push/press it back on to the new axle allowing enough axle protruding  for the new wheel to fit. hold the axle in a chuck , in my case the lathe chuck, but I guess you could use a drill chuck if you can secure the drill to something.  Then with your razor saw cut the spigot off the gear, being very careful not to cut the gear itself and of course don't cut into the axle. Obviously the gear being plastic will cut easily, as soon as the saw reaches the axle you will feel it, so turn the chuck a bit and cut a bit more, and so on until you have cut right round then carefully remove the unwanted spigot. you then should have enough axle protruding for the new wheel to fit. Now the next big challenge is securing the wheel to the gear. I used araldite , a tiny amount keeping it close to the axle, and away from the gear.  Once that has set you can think about re-fitting the wheels to the bogie. you need to eliminate almost all side play, allowing of course for setting the back to back measurement 14.3 to 14.5mm,  so some 2mm brass washers are useful (available off ebay)  With all gears re-assembled it all should run beautifully..   

I hope this is understandable and you are able to do this conversion. I managed it and it took me a couple of hours. 

The alternative is to buy a set of wheels from Ultrascale but that involves a long wait. their wheel look beautiful though, as mine do too.  Or at a push contact me and I can do them for you..

I am going to make better press tools for future conversions.  

[RobMG]

I know I've posted this picture before, but here it is again just for luck.....

[muddy water]

now to find the super glue!

[PMP]

On 18/05/2020 at 16:54, John Tomlinson said:

I'm interested in the comments re.Laserglaze. I've never used it, clearly some people regard it as the greatest thing ever, some the opposite.

 

What I can't see is how to avoid the vulnerability of something that is only stuck on a very thin edge, and that assumes you've managed to get it to stick at all,  and evenly in the aperture. 

The laserglase product is easy to use, they are precision cut to fit into the window aperture of the individual manufacturers model. What this means is you can’t use the Hornby 08 set in a Bachmann 08, or a Hornby 25 set in a Bachmann 25, they won’t fit because the manufacturers make the window shapes and apertures different shapes and sizes. 

You can fit them using a varnish, like Johnson’s Klear, or a thinned paint varnish (enamel or acrylics). I’ve also used superglue (thin) and thinned paint as a fixative.  Varnish is the easiest, run a thin layer around then perimeter of the aperture and place the transparency into the aperture always from the outside. This allows for the tooling cut of the models window. Leave to dry and you shouldn’t have a problem. Clumsy handling/knocks will inevitably damage a model, laserglase is no different, or any more fragile in my experience in this event. Here’s a Bachmann 25 fitted with it.

 

Edited May 21, 2020 by PMP
Add pics

[ctpl]

Hi Rob,

Just spotted your very interesting post. What was the wire you used for your pick ups off the wheels?

[RobMG]

Well, in the absence of any phospher bronze wire, I used guitar string  wire prob about 12 thou.   It is quite springy stuff and does the job pretty well. 

The wheels btw are Hornby coach wheels with the original Hornby gears grafted on.  Quite a fiddly job, but it works. 

 

Rob

[class25]

Rob, excellent topic, I have a few of these and am very fond of them. Thanks for the inspiration. Did you replace the marker lights on the cab ends? Wondered if you fitted a ready made item or made your own? Happy Christmas! 

[RobMG]

Hi, Yes I did replace the marker lights.  I also re positioned them. I made them using two sizes of brass tube, one inside the other. At this moment I can't remember the sizes. 

I will check them out and let you know, but I have to go out in a minute for an appointment.

Yes, I like the class 25's , and 33's  . I had a good cab ride in a 33 many years ago, and always they were a favourite. 

Any other questions you have re my mods just ask.  I used lazercut  flush glazing, and buffers from SLW .  Tanks etc from Brassmasters.   Transfers from Railtec.

I haven't yet detailed inside the cabs, but I will..

I lowered the Body right down on the bogies to get the buffer height as near as dammit.

[class25]

Many thanks for your reply, have a great Christmas!

[RobMG]

On 25/12/2021 at 16:10, 313201 said:

For the pickups on the unpowered bogie in a Hornby class 110 which uses the same motir as the class 25 and hst, I make my pickups using copperclad board and phosphor bronze strip.

 

The copperclad board is fixed on top of the bogie inside so theat once it has been gapped to prevent shorting the power the phosphor bronze strip is soldered to the copperclad board and bent down so that it bears on the treads of the wheels.

 

On my class 110 unit I have 2 of the motors used in the class 25 / hst converted to cd motors in an 8 coach hybrid unit ( purely fictional of course ) and in the 2 coaches 1 either side of where the motors are located near the middle of the train the bogies in both these coaches both have pickups at both ends of each coach giving 16 wheel pickup which has greatly improved the performance of the train

 

For the class 25 I would recommend ( if you ever decide to do so ) adding a 2nd motor and run them either in original form or cd motor converted.  I have found that adding a 2nd motor and extra weight greatly improves tractive effort and thus gives more options for the trains the loco will work in that the formations of coaches or wagons can be longer.

I have certainly thought about a second motor bogies.  What has put me off is that I don't think the loco would be as controllable at very low creep speed.   Also I don't have room for a layout where the loco could pull very long trains.   As I think I have said , It can pull up to six free rolling coaches, and at least 20 free rolling wagons.  That is more than I have space for.   So for the time being I will stick to one motor bogie.  

Other people have fitted the Hornby body to a Bachmann chassis.  I didn't want to do that either. I wanted it to be as much Hornby as possible.

The pick ups are a bit of a problem.  Underneath was the only way I could see for the power bogie, and having done that, I did the same with the non powered one.  It works pretty well, though a touch vulnerable.  The guitar wire does a good job, though I do have some phospher bronze strip.

 

Rob