Ballasting - floating away.

[Sweep]

I've laid the track and I've started ballasting with woodland scenes fine ballast but although if wet it in the usual way with washing up liquid etc, it still floats away leaving a horrible mess. A Can anyone tell me what i'm doing wrong? Is it the wrong ballast, or wrong size? I'm laying it dry and then dropping glue on it, should I spread glue and then add the ballast on top? It's beginning to annoy me now. 

[SouthernRegionSteam]

I've found that the trick is to lay the ballast down dry, then spray the track and ballast with water from a spray bottle that can emit a very fine mist.
If you don't mist the ballast with water it does exactly as you describe when it comes to gluing it down; even if you use washing-up liquid in your 50/50 PVA/water mix!

[Silly Moo]

Mist the dry ballast with water before dropping the glue mixture onto to it. The sprayer you use is important, it should be able to produce a very fine mist of water otherwise it will disrupt the dry ballast. YouTube is very good for demo video clips. 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Silly Moo

[mezzoman253]

You need a very very fine mist, imagine fog. Using an old perfumed spray bottle gives a fine mist. A lot of spray bottles don't go fine enough, and the "large" droplets move the grains.

 

Using fine ballast the surface tension of the water droplets pulls on the grains and moves them, even with a little washing up liquid in the water.

 

You need to get the ballast so that every grain is wetted, then apply the glue mix.

 

Rob

[Geep7]

As everyone else has said, wetting the ballast first will help. Also, don't forget to dilute the glue down as well. Add a few drops of IPA in with it as well, and use a pipette or syringe to apply the glue. Go steady and slowly, and it should be fine. I'll also add, if you do it in the garden on a very warm day, it'll dry quicker.

[30801]

In a fit of laziness I tried some Noch ballast glue on an N gauge thingy I'm playing with.

I find it goes on to dry ballast quite nicely. Downside it's expensive if you're doing anything sizable with it. 

[31A]

Woodland Scenics Scenic Cement also works well dropped onto the ballast from a pipette, without the need to mist the area first.  As above, it might work out expensive for a large area.

[meatloaf]

I used to use the pva 50/50 method but now my preferred method is ballast magic. You mix the adhesive with the ballast, lay the ballast as rewqired and spray with water. Its really easy, especially for pointwork

[Sweep]

I wondered if I'd be better moving up a grade of ballast from fine to medium, and can anyone recommend an alternative than woodland scenes?

 

[Guest Half-full]

8 hours ago, Sweep said:

I wondered if I'd be better moving up a grade of ballast from fine to medium, and can anyone recommend an alternative than woodland scenes?

 

You would still have the same issues, the secret is in the application of the fixative, not the grade of ballast.  Are you fully misting the ballast, then applying a water/pva/detergent mixture?  And how are you applying the mixture?

[Nile]

If the ballast is floating away then you've applied far too much glue. Apply small amounts at a time and let it soak in.

[Sir TophamHatt]

Buy a 100ml syringe from ebay.

They're good for squirting glue/water mix.

[Sweep]

4 hours ago, Half-full said:

You would still have the same issues, the secret is in the application of the fixative, not the grade of ballast.  Are you fully misting the ballast, then applying a water/pva/detergent mixture?  And how are you applying the mixture?

I've it a small plant spray bottle, if I screw the nozzle down tightly it produces a fine mist but it hardly dampens the ballast. Perhaps I just need to keep at it.

[Guest Half-full]

32 minutes ago, Sweep said:

I've it a small plant spray bottle, if I screw the nozzle down tightly it produces a fine mist but it hardly dampens the ballast. Perhaps I just need to keep at it.

Yes keep at it, take your time.  I spray upwards and let the mist settle, rather than directly at the ballast, again stops any movement

[Geep7]

7 hours ago, Sweep said:

I've it a small plant spray bottle, if I screw the nozzle down tightly it produces a fine mist but it hardly dampens the ballast. Perhaps I just need to keep at it.

Put a drop of washing-up liquid in the water for the mist, it'll allow it to be absorbed easier..... you need to get it really wet, all the mist does is stops it from disturbing the ballast you've laid.

 

Quick tip if you haven't already. On the points, only ballast up to the sleeper either side of the switch blade, and then after just sprinkle some around the outside on to fresh glue. Easiest way I've found to avoid a gummed up point.

[Happy Hippo]

From what I'm reading, I've been doing it wrong for all these years.

 

I lay the ballast and brush it into place and then  wet it down well with a water and washing up mixture mix.

 

Once this has really soaked in I repeat with a 50/50 mix of water and PVA

 

I use a pipette for both stages of the operation.

 

Nobody has asked the OP what scale and gauge is being used, which may have a bearing on the ballast swimming away.

[Kris]

Previously I have boarded the track with long straws. These stop the ballast flowing away as I glue it down. These straws have been lightly pinned down allowing them to be easily removed when the ballast has dried.