BR MK1 full brake interior

[The Johnster]

Partaking of a reflective ale as I type; the holes the end steps left on some coaches were plated over with aluminium sheets, welded on.  The welding material introduced rust to the steel frame after a few years service, leading to extra work for restorers of preserved examples.  Photo evidence if you can get it of course but I'm thinking these retrofitted plates may be of some use to you when you have removed the steps.

[westernviscount]

15 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Partaking of a reflective ale as I type; the holes the end steps left on some coaches were plated over with aluminium sheets, welded on.  The welding material introduced rust to the steel frame after a few years service, leading to extra work for restorers of preserved examples.  Photo evidence if you can get it of course but I'm thinking these retrofitted plates may be of some use to you when you have removed the steps.

 Agreed Johnster. A few glugs in and the plating over will certainly aid the process...along with more ale. 

 

Cheers

[The Johnster]

And cheese.  There is no aspect of human endeavour that cannot be improved with cheese.

[37114]

13 hours ago, westernviscount said:

Oh now you are asking @rodent279. Wasn't sure but i believe they are these https://tencommandmentsmodels.co.uk/product/brut-trollies-x-3-brass-kit. 

 

I think they are a really nice kit and look the part. 

 

I took a picture of the underneath in case anyone knows any better but pretty sure they are ten commandments. 

Cheers

The Ten Commandments ones are the same but originally it was produced by shire scenes, I still have the original packet for the ones rodent279 is buying from me.

 

I wish someone produced a 7mm version Icould do with one  for my platform end of Bristol Temple Meads.

[Kier Hardy]

Your BG is a lovely addition to the end of a bay platform. As well as the end steps which require hacking off (except the bottom one), the BG didn't have water filler pipes as portrayed on the model, so this can be easily converted to an end grab handle as shown here. Also remove the grab handle off the roof. Brilliant inspirational stuff 

 

Here's a link to John Turner's Flickr site of a blue BG.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/36092835152/in/album-72157604142594351/

 

 

You could go one step further and remove the step above the corridor connector, to leave just 2 brackets, but I've never attempted that yet as it may affect how the coach is held together.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Kier Hardy
to include link to flickr

[BR60103]

IIRC,  there is footage of the inside of a brake coach near the beginning of the film A Hard Day's Night.

 

[westernviscount]

On 17/05/2020 at 10:56, Kier Hardy said:

Your BG is a lovely addition to the end of a bay platform. As well as the.....

 

Thanks Kier. I did wonder about the filler pipes. I am certainly going to sort these bits and bobs out. As for the very top step, i don't believe it have any functional requirement to stay.

 

I will need to consider the order of operations carefully as i am eager to complete this project but don't want to create a half baked model. 

 

I am unhappy with the roof weathering which i now feel represents a much later state of decay. If i strip it back again i may tackle the ribs but this could be opening a another can of worms!!

 

I was happy to see a maroon BG in that picture btw!! 

 

Cheers for now.

Dave

 

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by westernviscount

[westernviscount]

15 hours ago, BR60103 said:

IIRC,  there is footage of the inside of a brake coach near the beginning of the film A Hard Day's Night.

 

 

Thanks BR for that. I am always happy to spend time with the beatles for research purposes or otherwise. Funny, i happen to be reading Shout! At the moment! 

 

Cheers for now,

Dave

[25901]

On 17/05/2020 at 06:49, 37114 said:

 

I wish someone produced a 7mm version Icould do with one  for my platform end of Bristol Temple Meads.

3Dprintingcorner are doing one soon according to their FB page

[adb968008]

BGs and BSKs had a metal plug hole in the concrete, as a kid I was fascinated at being able to look at the track through a circular 3” diameter Or so plug hole in the centre of the floor.

 

Things like ladders were strapped at the ends of the interior, and a spare lamp.
 

The guards compartment had linoleum or like on the floor, it wasn’t hard concrete, but in BR days you couldn’t tell the difference in colour.

 

the exterior window’ed door.. some of these had short length black chains with a hook on the angled Grab handle.

Edited May 18, 2020 by adb968008

[Chris116]

7 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

BGs and BSKs had a metal plug hole in the concrete, as a kid I was fascinated at being able to look at the track through a circular 3” diameter Or so plug hole in the centre of the floor.

 

Things like ladders were strapped at the ends of the interior, and a spare lamp.
 

The guards compartment had linoleum or like on the floor, it wasn’t hard concrete, but in BR days you couldn’t tell the difference in colour,

The BSKs have three holes in the floor. I regularly sweep the floor on the Mid Hants and the last bits of dust go down the holes very nicely!

[25901]

44 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

BGs and BSKs had a metal plug hole in the concrete, as a kid I was fascinated at being able to look at the track through a circular 3” diameter Or so plug hole in the centre of the floor.

 

Things like ladders were strapped at the ends of the interior, and a spare lamp.
 

The guards compartment had linoleum or like on the floor, it wasn’t hard concrete, but in BR days you couldn’t tell the difference in colour.

 

the exterior window’ed door.. some of these had short length black chains with a hook on the angled Grab handle.

I think you did too many Santa Specials at Bury to remember all that lol

[rodent279]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

BGs and BSKs had a metal plug hole in the concrete, as a kid I was fascinated at being able to look at the track through a circular 3” diameter Or so plug hole in the centre of the floor.

 

Things like ladders were strapped at the ends of the interior, and a spare lamp.
 

The guards compartment had linoleum or like on the floor, it wasn’t hard concrete, but in BR days you couldn’t tell the difference in colour.

 

the exterior window’ed door.. some of these had short length black chains with a hook on the angled Grab handle.

There was also a spare red painted screw coupling in the guards compartment.

Digressing slightly, have any of the BR old hands on here ever had to actually use a spare screw coupling from a BG/BSK/BFK/BCK?

Edited May 18, 2020 by rodent279

[adb968008]

45 minutes ago, 25901 said:

I think you did too many Santa Specials at Bury to remember all that lol

The memory there was that bright red stretcher that was in E9356, plus fire beaters made out of sweep brushes and left over bits of water tank bags.

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, Chris116 said:

The BSKs have three holes in the floor. I regularly sweep the floor on the Mid Hants and the last bits of dust go down the holes very nicely!

 

The guard must need to have had a very steady aim!

 

Mike

[adb968008]

So I’ve looked and this is the only interior picture of a BG I’ve taken...

 

 

this one would confirm the floor...

 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by adb968008

[The Johnster]

19 hours ago, rodent279 said:

Digressing slightly, have any of the BR old hands on here ever had to actually use a spare screw coupling from a BG/BSK/BFK/BCK?

I never did.  But this was why the d screw next to the hook had a flat cast into it, so that you could remove through the slot behind the hook and insert the replacement spare.  I have done it as practice, but never in anger; the coupling is as heavy as it looks, but not unmanageable, even for a wimp like me.  The one I struggle with was the heavy duty rotating buckeye on the 100ton iron ore tipplers that we had to learn in case a train had to be split while we were working one.  The cast aluminium bar emergency coupling on the HST was a bit of a lump as well, and had to be carried from the guard's compartment, potentially the length of the train, another thing I was happy not to have ever done except in practice.

 

Mk1 passenger stock guard's compartment contained; revolving chair, foldup chair by the door, the usual desk, cupboard, and cubby holes, a food warmer (useless for warming food from cold, but it would keep a pie warm for a while, utterly useless as a form of compartment heating), spare coupling, ladder, crowbar (for wrecking, hope you don't need it), handbrake standard, brake pressure gauge(s), brake 'setter', ladder (for detraining passengers in emergency, pair of track circuit clips, and the periscope, mostly too dirty to use, coathooks.  Oh, and sometimes a guard...

 

Have I forgotten anything, Mike.  It's a long time ago now...

Edited May 19, 2020 by The Johnster

[rodent279]

44 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

I never did.  But this was why the d screw next to the hook had a flat cast into it, so that you could remove through the slot behind the hook and insert the replacement spare.  I have done it as practice, but never in anger; the coupling is as heavy as it looks, but not unmanageable, even for a wimp like me.  The one I struggle with was the heavy duty rotating buckeye on the 100ton iron ore tipplers that we had to learn in case a train had to be split while we were working one.  The cast aluminium bar emergency coupling on the HST was a bit of a lump as well, and had to be carried from the guard's compartment, potentially the length of the train, another thing I was happy not to have ever done except in practice.

 

Mk1 passenger stock guard's compartment contained; revolving chair, foldup chair by the door, the usual desk, cupboard, and cubby holes, a food warmer (useless for warming food from cold, but it would keep a pie warm for a while, utterly useless as a form of compartment heating), spare coupling, ladder, crowbar (for wrecking, hope you don't need it), handbrake standard, brake pressure gauge(s), brake 'setter', ladder (for detraining passengers in emergency, pair of track circuit clips, and the periscope, mostly too dirty to use, coathooks.  Oh, and sometimes a guard...

 

Have I forgotten anything, Mike.  It's a long time ago now...

Where was the periscope? Did it come up through the roof?

[The Johnster]

It was a hangover from their wartime careers in the Kriegsmarine... yes, through the roof, and bi-directional.  It's there on all RTR mk1 brakes AFAIK, a Southern (SECR originally I believe).  Railway idea to enable guards to observe their trains without leaning out of the window on vehicles without duckets.  If you look above the guard's compartment, you'll see two box like structures with triangular tops.  I have, since late childhood nearly 60 years ago, always painted them gloss black to represent glass with something dark behind it.  Square tubes lead down to the guard's office, with mirrors so he can look in.  Achtung, torpedo vun, los!  I never saw one clean enough to determine if any magnification was used, but I doubt it.

 

It's not the worst idea in the world, but nobody except on the Southern knew what they were for and, unless it was on the Southern, they were never cleaned.  With the guard's compartment in the centre of the coach they weren't that easy to get at, and once mechanical carriage washing was introduced that was end of sports for them.

 

Gott in himmel mein Kapitan, ein Royal Navy destroyer, ve are doomed men, dive, dive... 

[keefer]

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

 

 

Mk1 passenger stock guard's compartment contained; revolving chair, foldup chair by the door, the usual desk, cupboard, and cubby holes, a food warmer (useless for warming food from cold, but it would keep a pie warm for a while, utterly useless as a form of compartment heating), spare coupling, ladder, crowbar (for wrecking, hope you don't need it), handbrake standard, brake pressure gauge(s), brake 'setter', ladder (for detraining passengers in emergency, pair of track circuit clips, and the periscope, mostly too dirty to use, coathooks.  Oh, and sometimes a guard...

 

Have I forgotten anything, Mike.  It's a long time ago now...

ISTR Parkin mentioning an axe (long-handled Fireman's type) was originally provided but these were removed after concerns over what would happen if in the wrong hands.

[westernviscount]

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Mk1 passenger stock guard's compartment contained; revolving chair, foldup chair by the door, the usual desk, cupboard, and cubby holes, a food warmer (useless for warming food from cold, but it would keep a pie warm for a while, utterly useless as a form of compartment heating), spare coupling, ladder, crowbar (for wrecking, hope you don't need it), handbrake standard, brake pressure gauge(s), brake 'setter', ladder (for detraining passengers in emergency, pair of track circuit clips, and the periscope, mostly too dirty to use, coathooks.  Oh, and sometimes a guard...

 

 

 

Hi Johnster, 

 

I captured some shots from the game Train Sim World of the interior. 

You might want to verify the authenticity!

 

Despite never being viewable i am tempted to model a bit more of the guards compartment including the red screw link!!

 

Here is my approximation of the compartment so far..

 

Cheers

Dave

[45125]

On 16/05/2020 at 16:49, westernviscount said:

Yes @Jim Martin, i have never even considered it!! This is why i love this hobby. Through attempting to portray something in model form you end up learning something you might never have considered.

 

Many thanks Jim, i shall be googling railway and railroad concrete floors for a while still!! As @SM42 and @Kylestrome point out, the BG floor was bitumen. Now on to try and represent it!

 

 

The floor was not bitumen, the floors where concrete. The steel sheeting was covered with bitumen then a layer of concrete, with wooden boards in the loading door area. I have had the misfortune to have had to drill these floors in BGs and other brakes and there is concrete there. Many other types of brake vehicles also have concrete or concrete/composite floors in them..

Al Taylor

[rodent279]

3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

It was a hangover from their wartime careers in the Kriegsmarine... yes, through the roof, and bi-directional.  It's there on all RTR mk1 brakes AFAIK, a Southern (SECR originally I believe).  Railway idea to enable guards to observe their trains without leaning out of the window on vehicles without duckets.  If you look above the guard's compartment, you'll see two box like structures with triangular tops.  I have, since late childhood nearly 60 years ago, always painted them gloss black to represent glass with something dark behind it.  Square tubes lead down to the guard's office, with mirrors so he can look in.  Achtung, torpedo vun, los!  I never saw one clean enough to determine if any magnification was used, but I doubt it.

 

It's not the worst idea in the world, but nobody except on the Southern knew what they were for and, unless it was on the Southern, they were never cleaned.  With the guard's compartment in the centre of the coach they weren't that easy to get at, and once mechanical carriage washing was introduced that was end of sports for them.

 

Gott in himmel mein Kapitan, ein Royal Navy destroyer, ve are doomed men, dive, dive... 

Thanks. I never knew that! Were the periscopes removed fairly early on? I have yet to see a photograph showing them.

[Chris116]

2 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

Thanks. I never knew that! Were the periscopes removed fairly early on? I have yet to see a photograph showing them.

All the Mk1 brakes on the Mid Hants have periscopes fitted and you can even see through them on a good day! Once I get down there for a duty I will take some photos for you. Our Bulleid brake also has a periscope but in the rebuilding of the coach for disabled use it now can only be used in one direction. Since I normally work from Alton and the Bulleid is normally on trains that start from Alresford it may be a while before I catch up with it.

[rodent279]

19 minutes ago, Chris116 said:

All the Mk1 brakes on the Mid Hants have periscopes fitted and you can even see through them on a good day! Once I get down there for a duty I will take some photos for you. Our Bulleid brake also has a periscope but in the rebuilding of the coach for disabled use it now can only be used in one direction. Since I normally work from Alton and the Bulleid is normally on trains that start from Alresford it may be a while before I catch up with it.

That would be grand, thanks. Whether I'll model it or not I don't know, but it's a little detail that I was unaware of, and little details interest me!