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Morning, I had some questions about a BR 12T standard van I'm working on, and I was curious to know if y'all could fill me in. The kit comes with parts for a van with Morton side and vacuum side. What's the difference supposed to be between them and why would I choose to fit one over the other? Next two long springs are provided with the buffer set and I don't know what's that's for? They already have the springs for the buffers already on them and I don't see anywhere on the instructions what they are supposed to be used for. Then I noticed there was a second set of buffer beams on a spruce, but I don't see what's the difference between that and the one already on the ends. Finally there are 3 spruces that were provided for the wheel frames, springs and shoes. 2 of which are needed to be put together, while one spruce was a cast and has all four fully complete. Is there supposed to be a difference between these and the build able ones? And one minor question what was the point of having the middle link in the couplings be different than other wagons. I know these are very small specific questions about the kit, but I just wanna be sure I'm not accidentally mixing different versions together or leaving out extra details 

 

Here are some pictures:

 

Appreciate any help,

 

Steven

 

IMG_20200516_014541__01__01.jpg

IMG_20200516_014614__01.jpg

IMG_20200516_022538__01.jpg

IMG_20200516_014636.jpg

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Steven, Slaters kits are brilliant (Parkside are no slouch either).  A common theme with both makers is that they have standard sprues so you may get extra parts (for the spares bin).

 

Here's my van showing the Morton side:

 

1500174584_P1010002-003(2).JPG.d6e6275d00efce32ea038ba76e7f135d.JPG

 

The spring you pictured is for the vacuum hose.  You can see the instanter coupling link, widely used for vacuum fitted stock.

 

With brakes, you need to be super careful that you get them the right way round.  I've screwed these up more than once.  The key is to imagine the mechanics of the thing.  When the lever is pulled down, the brake pushrods must move towards the wheel, applying the brake.  The Morton clutch cleverly reverses direction to do this.

 

The instructions are very good so read these and you can't go far wrong.

 

Also check out Paul Bartletts photo collection, I have found this to be very useful:

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brcovmerch

 

The BR Standard van was anything but standard.

 

John

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Posted (edited)

The springs make up the vacuum pipe.

 

One end fitted to the casting fitted on the bufferbeam, the other end has the fitting that slots into the stop when not in use. You can connect the pipe between vehicles but it looks a bit odd stuck straight out when not in use, hence it is hung on the "storage" component also fitted to the buffer beam.

 

The middle link in the coupling is the instanter link so that the wagon could be coupled with a long or short coupling depending on how the train was being formed.

 

The axle boxes give you  choice of types. there are many spares. You also have the solebar moulding for a shocvan there. make sure you use the correct solebar and don't forget to drill out the holes for the body brackets that fit later in the build.

 

As for all that plastic strip you get for the undeframe, it's up to you whether you bother. I just fit the vacuum  pipe on mine.

 

Brossard answered at the  same time as me and his photo shows you can't really see all that undeframe detail

 

Andy

Edited by SM42
edit spelling and add clarity

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1 minute ago, SM42 said:

The axkle boxes give you  chouice of types

That was the only thing I figured, and they also give you a choice of shock springs too. I just don't see why they would send me a whole extra set when I already have a set with customization. Just seems like a waste of material for them. I just wasn't sure if there was a little extra detail between them that I didn't notice that was for Morton or vacuum versions or something.

 

Appreciate the comment

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Posted (edited)

It's easier to have a standard set of mouldings that cover several variations  (and kits with similar but different undeframes) than have to have several sets of sprues  for each one and worry about getting the right mouldings in the right box at packing. 

 

The Morton version is vacuum fitted. The Morton clutch, ( the little joggle that looks like an upside down comma)  seen in Brossard's photo is on the opposite side to the vacuum cylinder. The brake lever on that (vacuum tank)  side doesn't have the little clutch to change the direction of the lever motion as its handle end is moved down to apply the brake.

 

When building just visualise applying the brake by pushing the brake lever down and how that will affect the linkages to the brake shoes. I'm normally  waving hands about when putting the brakes together to help me work out what moves where ,  like some form of wagon tai chi. Still get it wrong occasionally

 

The spares can be used for future kitbashing projects.

 

Andy

Edited by SM42

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I like to add as much underframe detail as is reasonable.  It can't be clearly seen , but as I am building a model of the van, I want to include the detail.

 

P1010211.JPG.61d63eb01fb3f22a8cfcadce58a729c2.JPG

 

Same van as above.  I had trouble finding it until I remembered it is the repair bin.  You can see the vac pipe is connected to the cylinder.  I used CA to secure it along with bent wire brackets.

 

The pic also illustrates an important lesson, don't use the plastic strip for tiebars.  Use brass strip.

 

John

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5 minutes ago, brossard said:

The pic also illustrates an important lesson, don't use the plastic strip for tiebars.  Use brass strip.

 

John

 

Now glad you mentioned tie bars . I knew there was some reason why mine was still languishing the not quite finished pile.  Must check the others too

 

Andy

 

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Posted (edited)

IMG_20200531_125445__01.jpg.6d6a9fc1b300fa2618f04b43ac9f08bb.jpgIMG_20200531_125518__01.jpg.1c1f78ea73455737aa45097fd3c7754b.jpg

   Got the van finished a few days ago, but finally got the plastic to complete the tie bars. Still not happy having plastic for them but I wasn't about to epoxy brass as I feel that will be just as weak. Already had hell with the vacuum pipes :rolleyes:. Any opinions or tips about the van? 

      

    Now for the next problem. How do y'all deal with cleaning out the buffer bodies that Slater provides? I was able to manage with the van, but took me awhile to do so. Every pin vise drill I've tried hasn't been able to break it, and I've even resorted to using a power drill with no luck. Simply too hard and just the size to where I can't find a tool to grip the bit good enough to break it. Getting very frustrated as I don't understand why that's even there in the first place. 

IMG_20200531_125125__01.jpg.0518f5d6556e860564f6829152f595d5.jpg

 

Appreciate the help,

 

Steven

Edited by SteelShadow104

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Hmm. Not had that one yet.  Certainly not on the 7 sets of buffers I've put together

 

Worst I had was what can only be described as casting sand in the buffer body.  Easily cleaned out

 

Maybe just a  rogue one you've got there

 

I'd perhaps try a round needle file.

 

Andy

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Nice job with the van.  Shame about the tie bars, maybe you'll be lucky.

 

I repaired the van I showed earlier.  It was a fiddly job though.  I drilled through some ~ 1mm brass strip and soldered a 0.032" wire in the hole.  I also drilled the keepers at the bottom of the W irons.  Then, using the first wire as a gauge, with great care I located where the second hole goes on the strip and drilled that out.  Amazingly it all fit.  Secured with CA (Zap A Gap Medium).

 

Yes, Slater's cast brass buffers do have release agent (white powder) stuck inside.  I was working on some today.  A drill that is close to the ID of the buffer housing usually clears it.  Sometimes there's a casting burr inside which is a bit harder to sort. 

 

There are two IDs because the spring on the buffer has to be retained. you don't want to drill all the way through.

 

From the pics, looks like you got it in the end.

 

John

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18 minutes ago, SM42 said:

Hmm. Not had that one yet.  Certainly not on the 7 sets of buffers I've put together

 

Worst I had was what can only be described as casting sand in the buffer body.  Easily cleaned out

 

Maybe just a  rogue one you've got there

 

I'd perhaps try a round needle file.

 

Andy

Had the same issue with the van's buffers, but they were much closer to the opening so I was able to get a round file on it, but these are for a brake van I'm working on now and are further inside to where I can't reach them

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22 minutes ago, brossard said:

Nice job with the van.  Shame about the tie bars, maybe you'll be lucky.

 

I repaired the van I showed earlier.  It was a fiddly job though.  I drilled through some ~ 1mm brass strip and soldered a 0.032" wire in the hole.  I also drilled the keepers at the bottom of the W irons.  Then, using the first wire as a gauge, with great care I located where the second hole goes on the strip and drilled that out.  Amazingly it all fit.  Secured with CA (Zap A Gap Medium).

 

Yes, Slater's cast brass buffers do have release agent (white powder) stuck inside.  I was working on some today.  A drill that is close to the ID of the buffer housing usually clears it.  Sometimes there's a casting burr inside which is a bit harder to sort. 

 

There are two IDs because the spring on the buffer has to be retained. you don't want to drill all the way through.

 

From the pics, looks like you got it in the end.

 

John

I just got some thicker plastic that perfectly matches the size for the W irons rather what came in the kit. The brass felt nearly just as flimsy as the plastic so I didn't bother with it. Figured plastic on plastic would form a smoother and stronger bond than epoxy. And yes I did see the release agent before hand and was able to clean that out, but all 8 buffers for both the van and brake van have these casting burrs inside that prevent the buffer shafts from sliding in, like I said to SM42 I was able to take a round file to them and was able to drill them out, but these are further inside and I can barely even see them. It's so much work to get these cleaned out and I have more coming in the mail soon :sadclear:

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Posted (edited)

I've just checked the next 4 kits I will be building (13t open. Palvan and two insulated vans) and non have anything like that in the buffer bodies.

 

certainly a real pain

 

It may be useful to contact Slater's about it. I appreciate that there is some distance between you and Matlock and any solution may take some time.

 

Andy

Edited by SM42

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5 minutes ago, SM42 said:

I've just checked the next 4 kits I will be building (13t open. Palvan and two insulated vans) and non have anything like that in the buffer bodies.

 

certainly a real pain

 

It may be useful to contact Slater's about it. I appreciate that there is some distance between you and Matlock and any solution may take some time.

 

Andy

Are those casted or brass? Because the 7 plank wagon I did has brass bodies that weren't on a spruce, while the van's were casted and had to be cut and sanded off a spruce. Could possibly be a bad batch that I may have received in the brake and Std van kits? Either way here's the kits for reference if needed

IMG_20200531_153208__01.jpg.e35402ea009e4bef38415a9dc80402f8.jpgIMG_20200531_153158__01.jpg.5b78cb681c6cb61480c0c7420d5d3c02.jpg

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Take it philosophically - we suffer for our hobby.  My fingers are calloused from all the kit building and soldering I've done.  (I had a kit with cast solid whitemetal buffer housings, quite an old one I think.  I tried to drill these out and I think I managed one but ran into the problem of holding them.  Fingers are a no go (agony!) and pliers tended to damage the castings.  I ended up chucking them and using......, yes Slater's.)

 

These kits are very satisfying I think.

 

I also did the brake van.  It's a good job you got the Slater's.  I've built Parkside brakes and had to replace the plastic step hangers with brass.  Slater's are cast brass and quite strong.

 

John

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Humorous story haha and believe me mine are no better, I do electrical for a living right now and my fingers get torn up on a daily basis. Plus hand drilling with such small bits tend to lead to plenty of punctures. As for drilling the buffers, I figured putting them on a slightly tight vise would be the easiest, which it was, but the drill wasn't able to grab the bit tight enough to do anything

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Yes, sometimes hard to get the pin vice to grip the bit tight enough.

 

I can recommend Invertrain buffers:  https://invertrain.com/product-category/buffers/

 

These have WM housings (yes they are pre drilled!) and steel heads.  I have a few of these and they are very good.

 

John

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All buffers checked were cast, 4 bodies on a little brass feeder.

 

I've just dug out a Fruit / Ventilated van kit (essentially the same kit as your van with different sides)  and the buffers there were fine too.

 

Certainly a challenging problem. I can't think of a tool that would be universally useful to solve it.

 

It can be very frustrating when things aren't quite right or could have been better with a little thought. Brossard has mentioned things like brake van stepboard hangers. May I also add Slaters brake gear safety loops. Why would plastic ever be a good idea for something so fine? A length of brass strip and maybe a bending template printed on the instruction sheet  would have been better.

 

My brake van build stalled because I didn't relish the prospect of bending all the (wobbly out of the box) stepboard hangers back into shape. I may get round to finishing it off during the current period. I just need to find the roof.

 

For the axle guard tie bars I'm tempted to use 1mm angle to give a bit of extra strength. Whilst not strictly accurate I don't think it would be noticable .

 

Hope the kits on their way to you are better. 

 

Andy

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IMG_20200601_064614__01.jpg.938d78efb09059ada8c3a2009b1cd4f5.jpgIf you're talking about these, then I'm way ahead of ya haha. Suckers snapped apart the moment I tried cleaning any of the feed from the spruce. I just bought a brass strip, a pair of needle nose, and the unbroken loops as a template and ended up pretty clean. However, it was a huge headache trying to get them to stand straight as the epoxy took awhile to cure, and any slight movent would knock them over.

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Yes those are the things

 

You have made a very fine job of those.

 

What size is the strip you used?

 

Andy

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You have the right idea for safety loops.  I am building 3 kits right now and used brass strip.  However, I always like to drill holes to stick them in and secure with CA.  I really don't like epoxy because of the cure time and faff in mixing it.

 

SM42, imagine have to make the hangers from brass strip, trying to replicate the somewhat complicated shape.  Not an issue with Slater's.

 

I have seen pictures of wagons that used angle for tie bars.

 

My policy when it comes to joining dissimilar materials is to pin and glue.  Glue by itself is prone to fail.

 

John

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I believe 1/32" and I don't know the depth. Just chose whatever was easier to manipulate

 

I only used epoxy because its the only stuff I have to bond brass and plastic. Believe me I have so many epoxy pools on a plate from every time I've had to used it haha

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I would highly recommend you get yourself CA, it cures quickly and is very strong, certainly strong enough for the fiddly details.

 

My go to is this:  https://www.amazon.ca/Pacer-Technology-Zap-Zap-Adhesives/dp/B00SXJJ2OU

 

I just decant a blob onto a plastic baggie and use some scrap wire to apply.  The glue stays viable on the baggie for a long time.

 

John

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Will definitely give it a go, tired of holding fragile pieces and blowing on it for a solid 5 min just to redo it again haha.

 

Also y'all have any tips or details I should know about for the BR brake van? That belly shot saved me for the Std van

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You can have a look at this:

 

 I made mine into a vacuum fitted ex LNER van.

 

I also modified the Dapol 20T BR brake, this time into a through piped van:

 

P1010001-001.JPG.aafc4cd62e85e471b8f19190f6bb1ef1.JPG

 

John

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