Preservation era push-pull conversions - who, what, when, where?

[Alex TM]

Hi again,

 

Interesting to see not only how spartan is the inside of the trailer but that the driver has to stand, too.

 

Thanks for posting this.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[Rhydgaled]

On 18/05/2020 at 12:42, Alex TM said:

My only experience of travelling push-pull on a preservation line was many years ago (ca. 1984) at Didcot where the demonstration track was being operated by a non-fitted pannier (IIRC 3738) and a GWR auto-trailer;

 

Would the operation of that be similar to the Dartmoor railway where, if I recall correctly, this ex-EMU driving vehicle (possibly from a 4-CEP?) had control only of the brakes? I think the driver was on the diesel shunter (which might be a class 08?) at the back to apply power. Presumably if an auto-fitted GWR loco is used with an autocoach the driver can apply power from the autocoach?

 

Returning to the use of a non-auto pannier with an autocoach at Didcot, would such operation be feasible on a long heritage railway such as the Severn Valley or West Somerset (in which case is there much benefit of using auto-fitted locos)?

Edited August 12, 2020 by Rhydgaled

[adb968008]

I never understood why Llangollen went down the BSK conversion route, when any number of EMU, DMU driving cars exist, indeed wasnt there several DMUs on their line ?

[Compound2632]

8 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I never understood why Llangollen went down the BSK conversion route, when any number of EMU, DMU driving cars exist, indeed wasnt there several DMUs on their line ?

 

Wouldn't the cab of a MU driving car be full of irrelevant equipment?

[Ryde-on-time]

The Northampton & Lamport railway have converted a Mk2 BSOT no 9102 into a driving trailer. It can be seen here:

 

 

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Wouldn't the cab of a MU driving car be full of irrelevant equipment?

not much in a first gen dmu cab, Brake, emergency brake, hand brake, speedo, horn all of which a BSK doesnt have at the gangway end, and except hand brake, presumably would be needed, as well as privacy options, headlights, seating for the driver.

 

The only thing I’d have thought irelevent would be the power handle  but without the drivers handle inserted, and the key, its just a lump of metal on the dashboard that could be ignored  (Or removed).

 

Who ever was “driving” I would have thought would need to be competent with all those requirements by default. A DMU trailer would add passenger benefits for views as well.

Edited August 20, 2020 by adb968008

[Marshall5]

On 20/08/2020 at 08:54, Ryde-on-time said:

The Northampton & Lamport railway have converted a Mk2 BSOT no 9102 into a driving trailer. It can be seen here:

 

 

Sorry - that's not a "driving" trailer.  The loco is propelling the train and a guard/other only has control of the train vacuum brake and a warning device.  When I was at Steamport we fitted a spare class 24 controller and MU cabling to a converted suburban 3rd and cut windows in the end so that the 24 could truly be driven from that end of the train.  If anything other than the 24 was being used it was simply a propelling movement under the control of the guard as in your video.

Ray.

[Compound2632]

The essence of push-pull or motor train operation is that the locomotive is controlled from the driving compartment in the carriage, either by a vacuum-controlled regulator valve (Midland / LMS) or a mechanical linkage (Great Western).

[adb968008]

Time to relive this picture once more...

 

This was the ultimate push-pull.

Rigged up to be driven at either end and power the class 25...

 

The first true bi-mode prototype...

 

should have painted the 25 in GMPTE to fit.

 

I think @25901 you should be asking Stadler for royalties for nicking your design for the class 755..

Edited May 16, 2021 by adb968008

[Alex TM]

Hi,

 

What a brilliant photograph.  Could you tell me when and where it was taken?

 

Thanks.

 

Alex.

[25901]

October Diesel Event 1991 ELR and as for royalties I got my bit lol

[Zomboid]

On 20/08/2020 at 08:47, Compound2632 said:

 

Wouldn't the cab of a MU driving car be full of irrelevant equipment?

I imagine most of the spare MU vehicles are air only. Easier to cut a window in and provide a brake valve than to fit vac brakes to an air/EP vehicle.

[Sam Moss]

On 25/05/2020 at 14:24, Invicta said:

The GCR (North) at Ruddington have a Mk2 BSO, which IIRC is fitted with a brake valve in this manner- Last time I was there a couple of years back we were propelled on the return trip, with the Austerity tank 0-6-0 tender conversion '2890', which was visiting at the time, rather than the 'top and tail' arrangement (HST 41001 + 33 ) used on my previous visit. 

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mk2_BSO_E9389.jpg

Still the case. the GCRN push/pull method is the guard and loco are in radio contact, guard has variable control of the vac brake (DMU brake valve) and a warning horn. Guard is a forward lookout.  25mph in pull mode, 15mph in push mode.  

[Sam Moss]

On 20/08/2020 at 00:08, adb968008 said:

I never understood why Llangollen went down the BSK conversion route, when any number of EMU, DMU driving cars exist, indeed wasnt there several DMUs on their line ?

EMU driving vehicles not suitable due to being air only and if you went down the first gen DMU driving car route you'd need an adapter plate to couple the corridor to a MK1, air supply for warning horns (not a problem if its a power car but then you're idling a 130hp Leyland lump just for compressor purposes adding unnecessary wear to the engine. Then if you're running in winter you've also got to take into account heating. DMU's don't have steam heat so you're in the realms of having to either fire up the engine again on your power car or run the diesel heaters on the trailer cars. A job that would require extra training for guards or attention from a fitter in the morning. 

 

A MK1 brake, sheet of 18mm marine ply, piece of toughened glass and a brake valve is a weekends work.......

 

[47513]

The East Anglian Railway Museum has BCK 21027 converted for this purpose. There is a cover over the gangway with a window. The ‘cab’ consists of a brake valve and a vacuum gauge along with a loose seat for the ‘driver’. I guess this is for use on their short running line. The train would be driven from the loco with the driver in the BCK acting as a lookout with control of the brakes in case of emergency. 

[Jollibob]

Here is a picture of what they use at Ruddington. My friend found it amusing as it was held on with clamps. But hats off for improvisation.

 

Rob.

[Alex TM]

It's the indicators that amuse me.

[MyRule1]

Along with a guard's Bardic lamp

[Ravenser]

The Lincolnshire Wolds Railway has one - Mk2 BSO I think

[Covkid]

On 22/05/2020 at 17:24, Phil Traxson said:

May be out of context for this thread but, the Ffestiniog also had a complete 6 car push pull set ( "The Green Set") with purpose built driving trailer with full control of the unmanned Diesel loco on the other end, which ran at normal line speed in time tabled services. Then again so did BR with 47,s and up to present day with Electric loco's!  

 

Reading Phil's post reminded me of an earlier Festiniog Railway operation, which maybe only lasted one season. The FRS had succeeded in returning to Dduallt on the original route from Portmadoc, but were stymied for the remainder of the way to Tanygrisiau because the CEGB flooded the original trackbed when they introduced the pump storage hydro electric scheme.

 

The Festiniog railway built a spiral at Dduallt to raise the height of the route on a brand new formation, which also needed considerable rock blasting and a brand new tunnel near Gelliwiog, thence alongside the new reservoir, over the back of the power station, then back onto the original formation at Tanygrisiau.

 

I guess the society were keen to earn every single penny possible to pay for this work and offered rides on a diesel worked shuttle coach, around the "deviation" onto the new line, more or less to the new tunnel mouth. These trains allowed the passengers to look down on the old formation and from memory the track had only recently been lifted with the distinctive sleeper hollows quite clear.

 

The coach (110 I think) was one of the new steel builds and was only partially glazed at the start of the operation,  later becoming one of the green and cream vehicles Phil mentioned above.