electrified 3rd rail and non electrified 3rd rail

[Nearholmer]

Gospel Oak wasn’t the terminus for the Barking line for all that long in recent times, I think only from when the Bedpan electrification was put in. Before that the trains ran to Kentish Town. 
 

Back in the mists of time, the routes were different, and the GER steam service terminated at Gospel Oak, which didn’t even have a through connection to the NLR until as late as maybe WW2.

[jim.snowdon]

A good example, in modern times, would be Hooton, on what is now the Merseyrail network. That became the terminus of the electrified service in 1985, and remained only part electrified until the early 1990s, when the conductor rail was extended through to Ellesmere Port and, separately, to Chester.

 

A much older example of partial electrification was the east end of Newcastle Central, which had the electrified bay platforms for the North and South Tyneside services until 1967.

 

Jim

[caradoc]

When the Edinburgh/Carstairs route was electrified, before any other routes westwards, only certain platforms at Waverley were wired, feeding into the two outer lines through the Mound tunnels, then via crossovers in Princes St Gardens to the Up and Down South Lines towards Haymarket. Eventually, of course, an electrically-hauled train was signalled, and took the route, via the central Mound Tunnel, causing huge disruption when the inevitable dewirement ensued (IIRC the train was booked diesel but the Signalman had not been advised of the change to electric traction).

 

[jim.snowdon]

Which reminds me of the delights of Euston to Primrose Hill, with DC sharing AC tracks, numerous routes into Euston that DC trains can't take and a junction at Primrose Hill that has specific AC and DC routes.

 

Jim

[TomJ]

Sorry for the thread diversion but this reminds me of something I’ve pondered. How did stations with different OHL cope? Like Man Picc with 1500v DC and 25kv AC. Do the two systems have to completely separate? What about points or lines crossing each other. I can imagine OHL and 3rd rail but can’t work this out. 

[Wickham Green too]

I've no doubt AC/DC overhead could be made switchable - and I've no doubt it happened / happens sur-le-continong - but it's far simpler to keep the traffic flows separate. I'm sure Man.Picc. was totally separate 'til Altrincham & the Woodhead rump went AC - but I doubt if there's much interchange - with the latter, at least - even now, apart from ECS.

One place in the UK had four different electrification systems at one time - and another one earlier in its history ! ...... Stratford retains four rail DC for the Central Line and 25kV overhead on the mains ( long ago this started out as 1500V ) - Side-contact third rail appeared with the DLR while the North London Line was still operating 'conventional' third rail ........... ne'er the twain ever met, fortunately !

Edited May 23, 2020 by Wickham Green too
correction

[keefer]

6 hours ago, TomJ said:

Sorry for the thread diversion but this reminds me of something I’ve pondered. How did stations with different OHL cope? Like Man Picc with 1500v DC and 25kv AC. Do the two systems have to completely separate? What about points or lines crossing each other. I can imagine OHL and 3rd rail but can’t work this out. 

I'm sure I remember reading about a crossover between the AC and DC lines at Manchester (maybe in the thread about Mayfield station?).

Not sure if it was only for use in emergencies, but in any case would be for diesel-hauled trains only.

[Andy Reichert]

5 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

I've no doubt AC/DC overhead could be made switchable - and I've no doubt it happened / happens sur-le-continong - but it's far simpler to keep the traffic flows separate. I'm sure Man.Picc. was totally separate 'til Altrincham & the Woodhead rump went AC - but I doubt if there's much interchange - with the latter, at least - even now, apart from ECS.

One place in the UK had four different electrification systems at one time - and another one earlier in its history ! ...... Stratford retains four rail DC for the Central Line and 25kV overhead on the mains ( long ago this started out as 1500V ) - Side-contact third rail appeared with the DLR while the North London Line was still operating 'conventional' third rail ........... ne'er the twain ever met, fortunately !

 

Was the NLR on the lower level of Stratford?  I don't remember seeing that in the late 50's.  I do remember Broad Street electrics and Steam hauled passenger service crossing over Lea Bridge road at the Bakers Arms (be tween East Walthamstow and Leyton Midland stations )

[Nearholmer]

I don’t think it went to Stratford at that period - the Dalston Junction to North Woolwich bit was electrified in order to give somewhere for trains to go after Broad Street closed IIRC. It was certainly quite recently (1985, having checked) because I recall the LM Region asking a couple of us over from the southern to give it the once over before they opened it for public service.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Nearholmer

[caradoc]

When I started on BR in 1978 Stratford Low Level was open, but only for the Tottenham Hale/North Woolwich DMU service. From May 1979 a DMU service operated between Camden Road and North Woolwich, and as Nearholmer says the North London trains were diverted to North Woolwich after electrification in May 1985 leaving a residual service to Broad Street, which duly closed in June 1986. 

 

 

[Wickham Green too]

Yeah - very confusing but Stratford DLR opened in 1987 when the NLR was running to North Woolwich with third rail - but that's subsequently closed and the former Low Level - or Stratford Market - station iteslf became part of the DLR as Stratford High Street ............. no wonder I get lost every time I go there ! ( chance 'd be a fine thing )

[Nearholmer]

And, you missed out the Jubilee Line, not that that introduced another form of traction power supply.

[Wickham Green too]

Indeed - another reason to get lost in Stratford's spaghetti !

[caradoc]

15 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Yeah - very confusing but Stratford DLR opened in 1987 when the NLR was running to North Woolwich with third rail - but that's subsequently closed and the former Low Level - or Stratford Market - station iteslf became part of the DLR as Stratford High Street ............. no wonder I get lost every time I go there ! ( chance 'd be a fine thing )

 

Just to add to the confusion, Stratford Low Level is now the terminus of the Jubilee Line and a through station on the DLR, Stratford High Street is a separate station on the DLR only. Plus of course there are still the earlier DLR terminus platforms at Stratford High Level !

 

[Oldddudders]

18 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

I don’t think it went to Stratford at that period - the Dalston Junction to North Woolwich bit was electrified in order to give somewhere for trains to go after Broad Street closed IIRC. It was certainly quite recently (1985, having checked) because I recall the LM Region asking a couple of us over from the southern to give it the once over before they opened it for public service.

ISTR chairing a meeting in early 1985 where we sorted out the track and signalling alterations needed at Richmond for the 2-EPBs to access Selhurst for maintenance.