Interlaken and Wengen

[David Bell]

2 hours ago, DGO said:

 

Yup there's also windows in the first and second floor, windows and doors to go in various openings, internal walls a roof over the canopy frame and the ground floor extension, snow rails round the edge of the roof plus two chimneys and various metalwork including a huge skylight over the ground floor extension.... Like I said work in progress ;-) I have no plans or elevations so I'm working off a map to get the rough foot print plus overhead pics and some hi resolution photographs from a number of sources including my memory, I don't think I'm doing too badly 

 

I think you are doing great

Cheers David

[David Bell]

When we see what happens to our railways when it snows , it is amazing how they cope in Switzerland. There are some days when you are thankful to have a train to run to!

[David Bell]

This is Allmend, the first station above Wengen, in the snow.

[DGO]

Allmend tiny station building with massive platforms, this is the other problem about modelling the WAB not only is the track just 800mm gauge with a rack rail but you have little stations with huge platforms, Wengernalp station serves the hotel, a total of 3 buildings and a shed but the platform is 181 meters long, Allmend is only really there to let people get to the top of the Lauberhorn Slalom course and to take skiers back down the mountain when there's not enough snow to ski back to the village but again platforms well over 100M long LOL  Don't mind me I'm just fed up because I found a better pic online and realise I've made a mistake with my 3d model. I 'd been looking everywhere for a pic of the interior of the station ticket office at Wengen as I was sure I'd seen one, there is a full 360 one as well, it's just that google has labeled it as the post office !  Unfortunately it shows the floor beams in glorious detail, enough for me to instantly go, oh ...

 

So I'm going to simplify the roof detail of the model, because there's no 3d printer on the market right now that can resolve the level of detail I can show, instead I'm going to lazer cut the tiles in strips and stick them on the top, the bright side of this is that it makes the models significantly smaller 

 

When I've finished would anyone be interested in essentially a kit of parts to build Wengen station, including the station building, the goods transfer shed and the smaller shed on the other side of the tracks  Plus the canopy ? It's likely to be a mix of 3d printed resin parts and laser cut details in wood and paper/card  

[David Bell]

Absolutely I would buy a kit of Wengen!

[DGO]

Well just the station to start off with LOL 

 

Once I have done the design I'll post an exploded pdf so you will be able to see exactly whats involved but the idea will be to bring the costs down a bit as I won't be using full sheets of thin plywood so better to make several kits to use up all the material and split the base costs 

[David Bell]

39 minutes ago, DGO said:

Well just the station to start off with LOL 

 

Once I have done the design I'll post an exploded pdf so you will be able to see exactly whats involved but the idea will be to bring the costs down a bit as I won't be using full sheets of thin plywood so better to make several kits to use up all the material and split the base costs 

Fantastic. Would be happy to split the costs with you.

Cheers

David

[David Bell]

7 hours ago, DGO said:

Allmend tiny station building with massive platforms, this is the other problem about modelling the WAB not only is the track just 800mm gauge with a rack rail but you have little stations with huge platforms, Wengernalp station serves the hotel, a total of 3 buildings and a shed but the platform is 181 meters long, Allmend is only really there to let people get to the top of the Lauberhorn Slalom course and to take skiers back down the mountain when there's not enough snow to ski back to the village but again platforms well over 100M long LOL  Don't mind me I'm just fed up because I found a better pic online and realise I've made a mistake with my 3d model. I 'd been looking everywhere for a pic of the interior of the station ticket office at Wengen as I was sure I'd seen one, there is a full 360 one as well, it's just that google has labeled it as the post office !  Unfortunately it shows the floor beams in glorious detail, enough for me to instantly go, oh ...

 

So I'm going to simplify the roof detail of the model, because there's no 3d printer on the market right now that can resolve the level of detail I can show, instead I'm going to lazer cut the tiles in strips and stick them on the top, the bright side of this is that it makes the models significantly smaller 

 

When I've finished would anyone be interested in essentially a kit of parts to build Wengen station, including the station building, the goods transfer shed and the smaller shed on the other side of the tracks  Plus the canopy ? It's likely to be a mix of 3d printed resin parts and laser cut details in wood and paper/card  

I wonder whether the stations on the Grindelwald side would be easier to shorten, Brandegg and Alpiglen perhaps. The modern trains now are six coaches long, so there is no getting away from loops long enough to accommodate these at the very least. The track below Brandegg is double now so that might be the easiest to have a shorter platform.

[David Bell]

1 hour ago, DGO said:

Well just the station to start off with LOL 

 

Once I have done the design I'll post an exploded pdf so you will be able to see exactly whats involved but the idea will be to bring the costs down a bit as I won't be using full sheets of thin plywood so better to make several kits to use up all the material and split the base costs 

Also let me know if you are missing photos of anything. 15 years of part time living in Wengen, I must have photographed most things at one time or another!

[DGO]

1 hour ago, David Bell said:

Also let me know if you are missing photos of anything. 15 years of part time living in Wengen, I must have photographed most things at one time or another!

 

Not unless you have any pics of the interior of Wengen Station,

 

I think I have all the details I need for the exterior, the only bit I'm not sure of on the outside is how they get from the station building to the roof garden . There's a door from the first floor of the goods building onto the flat roof above the info board, but at the rear of the flat roof on the station side a section of the roof has a glass inset railing and various plants, I'm not sure if they just climb out the window on that side or if they have turned one of the windows there into a door 

 

I think I'll use a lot of artistic licence for my little layout If I create a sort of version of Allmend but shorten the platform a lot and extend the double track down further into the avalanche hoarding that should work it's not as if anyone ever walks that far down the platform  there if they can help it , likewise a bit of licence for Wengwald (possibly the smallest station in Switzerland ?) Though at least there it's just a halt and only uses one of the modern trains doors 

 

The modern trains are I think about 42 M long or 84 in a double unit the older trains with a wagon and two cars came to about 30 M 

 

What was platform 4 at Wengen (now 3) is about 100m long which would be 1150mm in H0 scale which is doable for me the biggest pain is all the turnouts needed to duplicate Wengen it adds roughly an extra 1.5 m to the platform lengths simply because as setup track 2 is straight through, now there's a thought if I made track 2 and 3 the same length I'd get a better looking station in a shorter length, so have track 2 arrive as the straight through turnout but track 3 leave as the straight through option and track 2 feed into track 3 rather than vice versa

 

[Re6/6]

2 hours ago, David Bell said:

Also let me know if you are missing photos of anything. 15 years of part time living in Wengen, I must have photographed most things at one time or another!

David, did you manage to get to grips with Schweizerdeutsch?

[DGO]

By the way is it just me or are the modern WAB green and yellow boxes REALLY ugly ? the older trains I think look better the newer JB trains are nicer than the WAB as well :-(

 

[David Bell]

Maybe they chose the wrong one. Actually I don't like any of these. What I would love to see is one modern unit painted in the old livery

[David Bell]

1 hour ago, Re6/6 said:

David, did you manage to get to grips with Schweizerdeutsch?

No I never did!

[David Bell]

Photos at Lauterbrunnen in January 2020

[DGO]

Theres another thing that bothers me... how do you use an overhead crane to load trains under a catenary ? 

[David Bell]

On 24/05/2020 at 11:50, PaulRhB said:

My last trip was back in 2008 although I went up the other side of the valley. I haven’t been to Wengen since the early 80’s. 
This I caught back in 83 at Wilderswil, Heidi now back to its original home on the RhB

 

 

Anyway 2008

 

 

Lauterbrunnen

 

Murren

From the Schilthorn

back down from Murren

 

and back to Interlaken 

This post from PaulRhb earlier in the thread has a picture of the Lauterbrunnen crane. After staring at it for 20 minutes I have come to the conclusion that there is a bit of catenary on the crane supported by the grey horizontal bar that folds up out the way 

I could be wrong though!

[PaulRhB]

31 minutes ago, David Bell said:

This post from PaulRhb earlier in the thread has a picture of the Lauterbrunnen crane. After staring at it for 20 minutes I have come to the conclusion that there is a bit of catenary on the crane supported by the grey horizontal bar that folds up out the way 

I could be wrong though!

They certainly have a pulley but where there might be a pivot they would still be under the crane so at best would only widen the gap? There’s also only one ‘end of catenary’ diamond so it suggests only one track doesn’t have catenary. I think we’d need to see a video of operation to figure it out. 

Edited July 2, 2020 by PaulRhB

[DGO]

57 minutes ago, David Bell said:

This post from PaulRhb earlier in the thread has a picture of the Lauterbrunnen crane. After staring at it for 20 minutes I have come to the conclusion that there is a bit of catenary on the crane supported by the grey horizontal bar that folds up out the way 

I could be wrong though!

 

I think you must be right, it's the only thing that makes any kind of sense . I think the second track used to run all the way through but now it stops under the crane with a buffer, so it wouldn't need the overhead power under it for this track, makes it a little easier for running with one less overhead line to pull out of the way

Edited July 2, 2020 by DGO
Memory

[David Bell]

Murren in the snow

[DGO]

I've always rather liked Murren station it's the only one where you are completely protected from the elements whilst waiting for the train, the only disadvantage is if you have to climb down the stairs in ice coated ski boots ;-)

[DGO]

Looking at the specifications for H0 scale rack railway I'm becoming increasingly convinced that it might be cheaper to build my own ! the rack uses a 0.4 module with the top sitting exactly 1mm above the top of the rails, the rack itself is 0.4 module which means gears can be easily obtained and the rack itself probably needs to be between 0.6 and 0.9mm thick, that's certainly etchable in brass and I'm going to make some calls monday to see if it can be laser cut, at that point one traditionally would I guess solder rails and rack to pcb, but I wonder if it might be possible to 3d print the sleepers with mounting points to hold everything as an alternative. 

[DIW]

Hi DGO, it may be cheaper to buy some Bemo rack if  the cost of having it made looks too expensive. The Bemo was made in Abt and Straub versions (the Abt is more extant due to it being on the FO and the BVZ; the Straub is for the Brunig models). I presume you would need the Straub version particularly if you are modelling modern-day WAB. If you want to model earlier WAB without compromise then you would need Riggenbach rack. There is a specialist manufacturer of this rack in HO (in Switzerland I think) but you might well find it cheaper to have it etched!       Edit - It is available at HRF of Spiez, who also have the newer version of Straub rack used on the BOB.

 

Fleischmann also make rack in HO, and it is more widely available and cheaper than the Bemo - but it is in module 0.5, not 0.4.

 

Other manufacturers of rack in module 0.4 (as far as I can tell) are Ferro Suisse (Joe Works), Panier (Germany) and Gerard (Austria).

 

If you want to go down the Bemo rack route then I know of a trader who may still have some - if so, send me a PM. Connection - I buy stuff from this trader!

 

Edited July 4, 2020 by DIW
1. Added Panier 2. Added HRF

[DGO]

2 hours ago, DIW said:

Hi DGO, it may be cheaper to buy some Bemo rack if  the cost of having it made looks too expensive. The Bemo was made in Abt and Straub versions (the Abt is more extant due to it being on the FO and the BVZ; the Straub is for the Brunig models). I presume you would need the Straub version particularly if you are modelling modern-day WAB. If you want to model earlier WAB without compromise then you would need Riggenbach rack. There is a specialist manufacturer of this rack in HO (in Switzerland I think) but you might well find it cheaper to have it etched!       Edit - It is available at HRF of Spiez, who also have the newer version of Straub rack used on the BOB.

 

Fleischmann also make rack in HO, and it is more widely available and cheaper than the Bemo - but it is in module 0.5, not 0.4.

 

Other manufacturers of rack in module 0.4 (as far as I can tell) are Ferro Suisse (Joe Works), Panier (Germany) and Gerard (Austria).

 

If you want to go down the Bemo rack route then I know of a trader who may still have some - if so, send me a PM. Connection - I buy stuff from this trader!

 

Certainly interested in the trader but I was looking at the prices and availability, in excess of 20 euros per meter seems excessive, and availability is dreadful, Bemo only produce it once a year and not until Q4. Even paying expensive prices I can get enough pro photo etched to do at least 25M of track for £200, if I can find a laser cutter who can do the fine detail I should be able to do a similar amount for about £100 lets say I buy Peco H0m track I can buy 25 yards for again about £100 so thats potentially 25 yards of track for  £200 and no worse than £300 or at least half price LOL also I can only see Bemo doing ABT track on their site (the tiny offset tooth stuff) though the locos are convertible to the  Strub/Von Roll I don't think they supply that track.

 

All the proper tracks use a module of 0.4 for H0 it's part of the NEM standards (121) and is applied to Strub, Von Roll, Riggenbach and Abt

 

I'm aware of one bit of Riggenbach left at Grund on the diamond crossing (I'm sure theres more somewhere)  Most of the WAB is Von Roll which by fortunate coincidence is actually the easiest to replicate, Doing my own rack would also let me adjust the teeth correctly for change in angle of incline ;-)

 

If I can get it laser cut then I might go for stainless steel, it's cheaper than brass but more importantly I could use brass cogs on my locos and not be worried about wear on the track, I can alternately use brass for the rack and plastic for the gears but I'd prefer metal gears 

 

I guess I need to get a length of Peco H0m and check sleeper spacing, of course everywhere locally has sold out and no where wants to send a single length in the post because damage ... <sigh>

 

Not sure I'd do working rack points but I could at least get close enough that with two rack cogs per loco I'd not loose traction

 

This has a second advantage I should be able to use smaller diameter cogs and wheels the old trains wheels were just 673mm diameter or just under 8mm to scale 

 

Panier do ABT as well, though they work out cheaper than Bemo 

 

Ferro Suisse are not doing H0m track any more concentrating on 0m instead

 

Gerard (Austria). apparently has passed away

 

I don't have a spare kidney to sell to be able to afford HRF prices sadly :-(

 

So it looks like unless I want ABT I have no choice but to build my own...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 4, 2020 by DGO
More info

[DIW]

2 hours ago, DGO said:

I can only see Bemo doing ABT track on their site (the tiny offset tooth stuff) though the locos are convertible to the  Strub/Von Roll I don't think they supply that track.

I've had a look at my stuff, and it seems that there is no longer any sign of Bemo Straub - not even in the instructions for converting my Brunig locos from (factory supplied) Abt to Straub (gears for which are included with discrete locos).

 

3 hours ago, DGO said:

Certainly interested in the trader

I'll look out his details and PM them.

 

I can see that with the quantities that you envisage, it certainly becomes worth your while to take the bespoke route!

 

3 hours ago, DGO said:

lets say I buy Peco H0m track

Would you be better with the Peco 009 track as far as gauging is concerned?  Although there of course is the drawback that SL404 (009) is code 80 against the SL1400 (H0m) which is code 75.

 

My apologies to David Bell for the drift from his thread!