Questions and patience.

[newbryford]

I have tried to look uo the answers to the questions below, but with little success.

 

 

I've posted this here, rather than modellers musings:

 

Is it just me , or is there a preponderance of questions on RMweb(and other forums) at the moment that could easily be answered if the poster simply tried to look them up via Google and other search engines?

 

One recent example is a question in a particular manufacturers sub-forum asking about spares and how that manufacturer (XXXXXXX) doesn't have the spare part.

Yet two words in Google 

"XXXXXXX spares" turns up the answer in the first two links.

 

Is this symptomatic of the world that we live in in that spoon-feeding is becoming the new normal (outside of the CV-19 normal that is)?

And how people will ask questions without trying to look for the answers in the first place?

 

Which brings me onto another point.

Is the above driven by impatience?

Is the world becoming increasingly more restless in these non-normal times as folks actually have more time on their hands?

 

Three questions posed by the same person in two forums and by email - all in the space of about an hour.

And a follow up email less than 12 hours later - during a weekend.

(And I think there was an unanswered phone call in there as well......)

 

Discuss at your leisure.

 

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NittenDormer]

Not sure if this helps, but I sometimes (often) can't get Google to help because I don't know the right term for the subject. Eg at the weekend I was looking for info on multi pin electrical joiner covers. Turns out I should have been searching D sub. 

[Ozexpatriate]

27 minutes ago, newbryford said:

Is it just me , or is there a preponderance of questions on RMweb(and other forums) at the moment that could easily be answered if the poster simply tried to look them up via Google and other search engines?

Mick I would suggest that some people are better than others at using search engines.

 

What might occur as simple to some, simply does not occur to others. Using search engines is a skill and it will depend what keywords are used.

 

When there are people who are generously happy to help, there should not be a reprimand or criticism for people who ask questions. Now having said that, courtesy (in terms of thanks) is due to those people who do generously provide answers.

 

Years ago, as a user of technical software, I liked to call the helpline. My company paid for software support. Some of my questions might well have been categorized as RTFM, but it was quicker to have an expert direct me to the answer or where in the (printed) documentation I might find the answer. I always appreciated the help I was given and like to think I had a positive relationship with the support people. I had developed a level of expertise with the software and many of my questions were challenging to them. I liked interacting directly with helpful people rather than blundering around making my own mistakes with the manuals.

 

27 minutes ago, newbryford said:

Which brings me onto another point.

Is the above driven by impatience?

Is the world becoming increasingly more restless in these non-normal times as folks actually have more time on their hands?

The current emergency is making people frightened, frustrated or both. Some of that emotion inevitably comes out in their online posting behaviour and will be manifested in multiple ways that might appear impatient.

 

I offer, out of a sense of empathy, not criticism, that it might even have contributed to your posing the question.

 

Having said that, RMweb has a long tradition of understandable grumbling over ungrateful recipients requesting useful and helpful answers.

[newbryford]

9 minutes ago, Ozexpatriate said:

 

 

Having said that, RMweb has a long tradition of understandable grumbling over ungrateful recipients requesting useful and helpful answers.

 

My post isn't aimed at those unthanking types.

More of the unthinking types.

 

A two word search via Google would have revealed the answer without even asking the question here.

The same two words in RMweb's own search box reveals the answer within three suggestions.

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by newbryford

[MartynJPearson]

I think it comes down to the search; for some people they would rather trust someone with experience giving them the answer rather than Google. 

[Enterprisingwestern]

3 minutes ago, MartynJPearson said:

I think it comes down to the search; for some people they would rather trust someone with experience giving them the answer rather than Google. 

 

Which generally will bring them back to the "someone of experience" on RMWeb!!

 

Mike.

[tractionman]

8 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Which generally will bring them back to the "someone of experience" on RMWeb!!

 

Mike.

 

I was looking this morning for images of D600s in blue, so did a search (Google) on images, and what comes up...? A thread on RMWeb:

 

 

The second post in reply to the OP on D600s included had a Flickr link and said in the response -- "Took less than 10 seconds in Flickr."!

 

Plus ça change ...

 

all the best,

 

Keith

 

PS--I did find what I was looking for in the D600 thread!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

I don't think it's particularly a new thing on RMweb Mick - it's been like that for a long while although it has maybe become more prevalent or noticeable in recent times?   I'm afraid there are times when I can't resist the lure of such questions so answer with a Gooogle link or something like that or simply say why don't you put so & so (i.e. the OP's question slightly disguised) into Google.   What it is all down to I don't really know - genuine questions where you can't find the answer online are one thing. But very straightforward stuff does tend to irritate  me because it comes over as laziness on the part of the questioner - especially if (as in one regular case on RMweb) the question is being asked by someone who is putting together some sort of book and is too idle to carry out proper research.

[caradoc]

The same thing happens on Facebook groups, and while seeming annoying I can understand why people would rather ask like-minded and knowledgeable folk on here than trust internet search engines. Besides, one has to be careful on the internet; One of my work colleagues, helping his son with a school project on the Mounties, searched for 'Horse Mounted Police'.......the results were not quite what he expected !

 

[MartynJPearson]

1 hour ago, caradoc said:

The same thing happens on Facebook groups, and while seeming annoying I can understand why people would rather ask like-minded and knowledgeable folk on here than trust internet search engines. Besides, one has to be careful on the internet; One of my work colleagues, helping his son with a school project on the Mounties, searched for 'Horse Mounted Police'.......the results were not quite what he expected !

 

Similarly those in IT searching for the Experts Exchange website have to be very careful with the positioning of the space

[AndrewC]

Local Fecesbook groups are the absolute worst for this. “What time does the Tesco on the high street close?” The correct answer to this question is of course “Look at Tesco’s forking website you brainless sh*tweasel.” 

[Steamport Southport]

Dave Gorman is good at pointing out this sort of thing. The leap year episode was repeated the other day on Dave.

 

How many days does February have in a leap year?

 

Dave asks if you've ever been in a part of the internet that's made you think: "Hang on, this just shouldn't exist"?

 

https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/dave_gorman_modern_life/videos/6075/how_many_days_does_february_have_in_a_leap_year/

 

 

 

Jason

[Captain Cuttle]

On 19/05/2020 at 12:23, tractionman said:

 

I was looking this morning for images of D600s in blue, so did a search (Google) on images, and what comes up...? A thread on RMWeb:

 

 

The second post in reply to the OP on D600s included had a Flickr link and said in the response -- "Took less than 10 seconds in Flickr."!

 

Plus ça change ...

 

all the best,

 

Keith

 

PS--I did find what I was looking for in the D600 thread!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What i should have said was iwas looking for roof pix which seemed pretty rare in colour !

Alan

[Captain Cuttle]

[kevinlms]

On 19/05/2020 at 08:14, NittenDormer said:

Not sure if this helps, but I sometimes (often) can't get Google to help because I don't know the right term for the subject. Eg at the weekend I was looking for info on multi pin electrical joiner covers. Turns out I should have been searching D sub. 

A friend of mine says the same thing about dictionaries. If you are unsure about the spelling of a word, what use is a dictionary?

[Joseph_Pestell]

4 hours ago, kevinlms said:

A friend of mine says the same thing about dictionaries. If you are unsure about the spelling of a word, what use is a dictionary?

Especially in Welsh.

 

Sorry, I went off-topic there. I do agree with the basic premise of the OP. Having so much information available on the internet has made people rather lazy about research and they expect it all to be there instantly for them.

 

But in our particular field, the internet is not always that informative. Some of what we are looking for will have been uploaded but a lot has not. What has been uploaded has often been done in a way that is not transparent to the search engines. So it can seem "difficult" to those who are used to having it all at once.

 

True also, the criticism above of Google. I was looking for something yesterday (non-railway and quite banal) and needed four or five goes to stumble on the right search terms. After nearly an hour finding the wrong equipment from suppliers on the wrong side of the country, there popped up exactly what I needed and from a supplier not ten miles away! I can't help but think that this may have something to do with algorithms that are optimised to sell advertising rather than provide me with information.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Joseph_Pestell

[caradoc]

On 19/05/2020 at 15:29, MartynJPearson said:

Similarly those in IT searching for the Experts Exchange website have to be very careful with the positioning of the space

 

Problems can indeed arise with website addresses; One I recall was a supplier of specialist pens, called Pen Island; Minus the space the meaning changes somewhat !

[DIW]

29 minutes ago, caradoc said:

 

Problems can indeed arise with website addresses; One I recall was a supplier of specialist pens, called Pen Island; Minus the space the meaning changes somewhat !

 

Indeed; i just checked to see if Via Grafix are still going (they've renamed as Learn2) when I found this list of unfortunate addresses with Pen Island at the top (Via Grafix down at no. 22).

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On ‎18‎/‎05‎/‎2020 at 22:59, newbryford said:

...Is it just me , or is there a preponderance of questions on RMweb(and other forums) at the moment that could easily be answered if the poster simply tried to look them up via Google and other search engines?...

There will always be some for whom this tech and mode of interaction is problematic, which sets significant limits on how effectively they can use resources that the majority pick up on easily. So I feel that an 'everyone gets a free pass at first encounter' approach is the right one to use, until the position becomes clear.

On ‎19‎/‎05‎/‎2020 at 13:38, The Stationmaster said:

...But very straightforward stuff does tend to irritate  me because it comes over as laziness on the part of the questioner - especially if (as in one regular case on RMweb) the question is being asked by someone who is putting together some sort of book and is too idle to carry out proper research.

Quite, in my case the moment a bottom feeder is identified, all interaction ceases.

[tomparryharry]

This forum shows up a vast array of subjects. The prospect then, is that as the array expands, so does the niche element expand likewise. It's very easy to drop into the niche, and because you can't find what you're looking for, it's very easy to assume you've reached a dead end. 

 

I've done this myself several times, looking on google for items, and chasing my tail around the net. Finally, looking on Bay, and I found what it was I needed, although by a totally different name....

 

Screwfix have some funny descriptions for some of their products. I think it's a deliberate ploy to get you into different areas of the website, so you end up buying something else..... "Oooh! Look at that!" Translates as I went in for some screws, and I came out with a cement mixer...... You get the idea.....