Exclusive OO Gauge Class 89 produced by Accurascale

[adb968008]

21 hours ago, 7013 said:

Bl**dy hell, are we talking about a Class 89 or the finer points of contractual or non contractual interest in a model?

For goodness sake children stop acting like spoiled brats and get back to the topic. Rails could quash all this arguing by saying yes or no.

i’ll challenge two points...

1. spoilt brats ? - really ?

2. try finding the 89 on Rails website, in less than 3 clicks.*

 

* that is goto the website and try three links, not goto the website hunt for it for 30 minutes and return with 3 clicks once you've found it.
 

The 89 isnt very obvious on their site right now, unless i’m looking in the wrong place to everyone else ?

 

Typing “class 89” in search reveals nothing.

 

Lack of Warley etc, cant be helping with promotion either, the lack of shows has taken away the face time element. Is mag circulation today, as strong as it was 20 years ago (I dont know)  ?

 

That said, given the competitive threats, saying nothing could be a good thing. our hobby has become a bit Russian of late...
 

The EOI was a level playing field, that spies can watch. If they gave the green light, someone else could secretly give it a green light too, and on the Soviet style Up Fast... so if the result of the Rails EOI was absolutely nothing, and suddenly an Accurascale EP emerges.... Happy Days.., but they would be frustration if someone else popped out another ahead of them.

I do hope though, that if the numbers arent there, that they give it one more boost, these are unusual times to reach an audience, and often people do get Blase. Learning from the Hattons experience, it would be good  to get an update statement, before “Doing a Yob”.

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by adb968008

[adb968008]

9 hours ago, Derekstuart said:

The 89 only had a history of around 15 years,

Thats more than many class 60’s, 92’s in this country, and probably in line with the class 58.

 

its also longer than just about every BR standard steam loco.

And most BR pilot diesels (14,15,16,17,21,22,23,28,30,41,42,43, 77,84) and longer than Deltic, DP2, Lion, Kestrel, Falcon, 10800, 10000, 10201-3)...

 

One subtle point, people keep speculating that LSL has a hand in this... I would point out the Badger moved to Soho this week, in a ROG move.

 

(a video by a trackside acquaintance, i meet from time to time, cool guy, out and about on the network frequently, so his channel is well worth following).

 

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by adb968008

[Derekstuart]

11 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

GSM-R was not a requirement last time it was on the mainline. 

Edit: just looked at the dates. 89001 was removed from traffic on 2004, GSM-R on the ECML was introduced in 2013. 
 

89001 will also need OTMR that was not needed in 2004. 

 

Roy

Thanks Roy. Sorry, I thought this was just the CSR. Clearly it is a new(er) version.

 

11 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

The problem for the manufacturer is that they can't just produce 10, 50, or 100 - the factory is going to want a minimum order likely in the thousands.

 

Now does an online auction site price tell you there is demand for say 2,000 units?

 

It's reasonable to assume we are all aware of the need for minimum orders. For a second batch the minimum order will not as high as for the first- the design and tool work has already been completed, but of course there will still be a need for a minimum order of X units. I don't think anyone suggested otherwise.

 

Can a 'manufacturer' gauge likely demand from Ebay prices? No, not really; it will be one of many indicators they use to gauge such demand.

 

So let us put this a different way: If X model was listed from multiple sellers on Ebay and they were constantly being re-listed, never selling except at silly low prices you'd take that as an indicator that a second batch would be a failure, wouldn't you?

 

Don't forget that whilst 89 has never been released RTR before, Rails has a long history of selling both new and second hand units and they will by now have a good idea of the type of models that sell quickly and those that don't. We do not have that same data.

 

5 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Thats more than many class 60’s, 92’s in this country, and probably in line with the class 58.

 

its also longer than just about every BR standard steam loco.

And most BR pilot diesels (14,15,16,17,21,22,23,28,30,41,42,43, 77,84) and longer than Deltic, DP2, Lion, Kestrel, Falcon, 10800, 10000, 10201-3)...

 

One subtle point, people keep speculating that LSL has a hand in this... I would point out the Badger moved to Soho this week, in a ROG move.

 

 

 

You're right. Of course some 60s have carried on and that gives the class overall longevity, plus there are many more of them. It's a very good point about the BR Standards- it's easy to overlook the short timescale they had, but again there were many more and spread over the whole Country.

 

I wonder how sales of BR Standard models compare to the NER E1/ J72. That was produced in batches for over 50 years from the late 19th Century to the middle of the 20th. Although relatively low in numbers compared to the likes of the BR/EE 08, their longevity between the first production and the last withdrawal is getting on for a Century- though I bet the sales are lower than the BR Standards overall.

 

I have no idea about LSL/ ROG etc. Sorry. For me, railway history- both real and model- stopped in 1994. I wish all the very best to those behind 89's return to the main line.

 

One last point: Why do people call the 89 'Aardvark' or 'Badger'? I'm told the sloping front resembles the nose of a badger, which it doesn't to me. Why not call it 'the 89' or even 'Avocet', which is the name it was given on commissioning.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Derekstuart

[adb968008]

On 29/10/2020 at 12:30, Derekstuart said:

 

 

I have no idea about LSL/ ROG etc. Sorry. For me, railway history- both real and model- stopped in 1994. I wish all the very best to those behind 89's return to the main line.

 

One last point: Why do people call the 89 'Aardvark' or 'Badger'? I'm told the sloping front resembles the nose of a badger, which it doesn't to me. Why not call it 'the 89' or even 'Avocet', which is the name it was given on commissioning.

LSL- Locomotive Services..

if your world stopped in 1994, getting to know them may please you, there fleet includes 34046,46100,5029,60532,60019,70000,6960,45231,35029 and many more.

 

When it comes to modern, there world too stops in 1994, these being a recent acquisition...

 

 

They are planning a series of class 86/87/90 hauled mk3 rail-tours, in intercity livery using a DVT in 2021, supported by 20,37,40,45 & 47’s.

 

 

ROG - Railway Operating Group is a general haulier, based out of Leicester depot, who’s main business is moving large amounts of rolling stock over the network, too / from works for overhaul, delivery and scrap. There fleet is class 37/47/57, though there yard often has 20/31/56’s around it, they also have two class 91’s.

 

 

 

 

Aardwark and Badger... well locomotives have had nicknames going back to at least 1900 and Galloping Gertie. Your swimming up hill if you want to change the tradions of no only the nation, but the whole world... meet The English for instance,..

 

it should be obvious why the Poles call it that.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by adb968008

[Derekstuart]

3 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

LSL- Locomotive Services..

if your world stopped in 1994, getting to know them may please you, there fleet includes 34046,46100,5029,60532,60019,70000,6960,45231,35029 and many more.

 

When it comes to modern, there world too stops in 1994, these being a recent acquisition...

<SNIP>

 

 

 

 

As ever, you are a font of information. 

 

I see they've purchased a HST set and have some Brush 4s. Excellent. I can see HST railtours being popular in years to come. There will come a time when routing a 1950s mainline diesel becomes all but impossible, whereas an HST- even allowing for conventional modern trains getting faster- will stand a better chance of finding spare paths.

 

The ultimate trainset.

[YesTor]

15 hours ago, adb968008 said:

i’ll challenge two points...

1. spoilt brats ? - really ?

2. try finding the 89 on Rails website, in less than 3 clicks.*

 

* that is goto the website and try three links, not goto the website hunt for it for 30 minutes and return with 3 clicks once you've found it.
 

The 89 isnt very obvious on their site right now, unless i’m looking in the wrong place to everyone else ?

 

Typing “class 89” in search reveals nothing.

 

I'm glad someone else has highlighted the above and I have to totally agree on both points.  The RAILS website has been truly awful since its 'upgrade' IMHO, it doesn't seem to matter what you search for, or how you search, you either generate "0 results", or potentially several thousand items yet still no sign of the product that you are actually looking for.  As you correctly highlight, searching for "Class 89" reveals in excess of 1900 results, with no actual Class 89 in sight:

 

 

 

 

Your option then is to either wade through 80 pages of non-relevant stock, or attempt to "Refine your search" (an oxymoron if ever there was one), by clicking on either "Accurascale" or "Diesel/Electric loco", whereby still no joy - okay now down to "53 items", but strangely still no sign of the seemingly elusive Class 89 whatsoever on any of the 3 pages presented, and unfortunately this seems to be the pattern for pretty much whatever else that you may be searching for:

 

 

 

There is surely no way on Earth that this haphazard method of presentation and searching is going to attract the casual customer?  And for those who already know what we want, well, how can a store expect to sell something if you force your potential buyer to search high-and-low for a product - and alas still not be able to find it? 

 

When you walk into the supermarket and are dazzled by the unusually huge display of cheap, brightly-coloured plums, it usually means that plums are in season this week - not next week, or the week after, but right now!  And the retailer wants to sell them to you - and by the truckload!  How fewer plums might be sold if they were awkwardly tucked away behind the toilet rolls, adjacent to the grubby fire exit... 

 

Online shopping can be even more competitive than physical shopping and potential customers even more fickle, so it's absolutely vital to present whatever it might be that you want to promote right upfront, in the customer's face.  Instantaneous eye-candy is absolute key to scoring the impulsive purchase.

 

I realize that the above may sound scathing, and to be absolutely clear, I have no gripe with RAILS per se, as I have always found the general service and delivery etc to be absolutely faultless, the staff both friendly and super-helpful.  However, sadly I generally only order once or twice per year - simply because the website is so frustrating to use, more often than not resulting in me clicking away elsewhere in pure exasperation, having not been able to find the product that I know is actually in stock at RAILS.  

 

As a side-note, generally speaking, if I really wish to locate a product via RAILS then I will run a query via search-engine, so in this instance searching via Google for "Rails Class 89" instantly generates the desired page.  However, that's really not the way it should be, as not everyone is likely to instinctively follow this procedure, and it certainly isn't going to score a sale to the casual buyer with a couple-of-hundred quid burning a hole in his pocket... 

 

Hopefully - and before I'm shot down in flames - the above can be seen as constructive criticism, as personally I would like to spend more at RAILS than I currently do, but unless they render their website less of a pain to actually use then very sadly my orders tend to still go where I know that the product I want can be found almost instantaneously...

 

Best

Al

Edited October 29, 2020 by YesTor

[Pete the Elaner]

9 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

2. try finding the 89 on Rails website, in less than 3 clicks.*

 

* that is goto the website and try three links, not goto the website hunt for it for 30 minutes and return with 3 clicks once you've found it.
 

The 89 isnt very obvious on their site right now, unless i’m looking in the wrong place to everyone else ?

 

Typing “class 89” in search reveals nothing.

 

 

I searched for 10 minutes & got nowhere.

Not listed as an Accurascale product, not listed as a Rails Special Edition & when I looked at all categories, class 89 is not listed.

Like you, I searched for class 89 & got nothing of use (I got a 31, 47 & a few other unrelated things. 'Badger' returned some airbrush products, which is fair enough. "Avocet" returned nothing either.

 

With advertising this poor, it is amazing anyone knows about it at all.

[PaulRhB]

13 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

With advertising this poor, it is amazing anyone knows about it at all.

Yet you’re posting about it . . .  

 

No doubt it’s in their adverts in mags, Facebook, mailing lists and some of those obscure fora

[classy52]

You are all correct re cannot find Class 89 within the Rails website.

I had to Google it and clicked on the link below which takes you to an actual Class 89 promo page in the Rails News/Articles section.

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/news/articles/3418-iconic-class-89-in-oo

 

[Pete the Elaner]

Just now, PaulRhB said:

Yet you’re posting about it . . .  

 

No doubt it’s in their adverts in mags, Facebook, mailing lists and some of those obscure fora

Only because I've seen it on here.

[PaulRhB]

12 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Only because I've seen it on here.

My point is you only need to see one of those multiple options so it has worked for this group and when it was announced I forwarded it to a couple of friends who would be interested, no doubt others did too. 

[Roy Langridge]

53 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

My point is you only need to see one of those multiple options so it has worked for this group and when it was announced I forwarded it to a couple of friends who would be interested, no doubt others did too. 

 

Doesn't make it right that it is not obviously on their website to catch those that are otherwise missed. Hattons have a very good approach to showing their latest plans, Rails not so good.

Roy

[TRAILRAGE]

Firstly we all need to calm down regarding this. No Money has Changed hands and none is out of pocket. IF the Model gets made Wonderful and I will enjoy my IC Original Model immensely. IF for some reason it doesn't go ahead (for whatever reason that may be), then so be it. At the end of the day it's just a Model. Lets Just give Rails the chance to at least try and find the best solution they can with Accurascale to do what they do and make one the best models ever produced .  After all Patience is a virtue and it's not like were in the middle of a Global Pandemic or anything! 

 

It's easy to find the Link, go to Google Type "Rails Class 89" and this comes up.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=rails+class+89&rlz=1C1AVNE_enGB726GB726&oq=Rails+Class+&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0i457j0l6.6934j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

Link is at the top of the list.

Not all websites search facility work the way it should do.  Trust me I have to deal with Angry customers regarding this issue for the company I work for everyday! 

 

Good Luck Rails / Accurascale and hoping this will still go ahead.

 

Cheers Trailrage

[Roy Langridge]

6 hours ago, TRAILRAGE said:

It's easy to find the Link, go to Google Type "Rails Class 89" and this comes up.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=rails+class+89&rlz=1C1AVNE_enGB726GB726&oq=Rails+Class+&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0i457j0l6.6934j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

But that isn’t the point, you have to know it exists to think to do that search, what was being discussed was a lack of apparent marketing by Rails as it is not obviously on their website. 

 

Otherwise, I fully agree with your views. 

 

Roy

[jonnyuk]

i find that unless you know the product code then the rails site is pants, even then it gives you back unrelated cr*p in the search results, there old site was much better, it was almost like they felt the need to revamp the site for the sake of it, then screwed it up. Having worked with database driven software for 20 years it will be the back office database design that's at fault. For balance i also find the hattons navigation not much better but at least it returns what you asked for when searching, i also find the amazon site rubbish for filtering and sorting.

 

Keeping it product related, i've never really thought about the 89 but now i've done more reading it's a great loco with historical importance, something to consider to go with my 90 and forth coming 91 (still think it's butt ugly though)

[Pete the Elaner]

5 minutes ago, jonnyuk said:

I've never really thought about the 89 but now i've done more reading it's a great loco with historical importance, something to consider to go with my 90 and forth coming 91 (still think it's butt ugly though)

 

While in its Intercity liveries (particularly the early one) it also ran with test trains & HSTs with a DVT power car at the 1st class end.

DVT conversion from a standard power car is not too difficult, but Hornby are releasing a pair of these in Intercity livery soon.

[Oliver Rails]

Hi, 

 

Apologies for the difficultly some people have experienced finding the Class 89 topic. As we are still in the "register you interest" stage, the product listings haven't actually been created. The search bar only searches for product listings rather than new stories and topics, this is why no results were found during a search.

 

Our website is always evolving and we are constantly working to improve the user experience, with new updates expected early in the new year. I have noted all feedback and hopefully we will be able to resolve some issues in the next update.

 

Back onto the Class 89, just to clarify the link can be found here:

https://railsofsheffield.com/news/articles/3418-iconic-class-89-in-oo

 

 

Interest continues to grow for the project and we aim to give an update shortly. 

 

Many thanks
Oliver @ Rails

 

 

 

 

[boxbrownie]

Oh good, we can shut up now....

[Oliver Rails]

Also, We have added the restored 2020 Intercity Swallow named 'Avocet' to the potential list. We have had many inquiries regarding should the project progress, would the new restored livery be produced.

[MGR Hooper!]

4 hours ago, jonnyuk said:

i find that unless you know the product code then the rails site is pants, even then it gives you back unrelated cr*p in the search results, there old site was much better, it was almost like they felt the need to revamp the site for the sake of it, then screwed it up. Having worked with database driven software for 20 years it will be the back office database design that's at fault. For balance i also find the hattons navigation not much better but at least it returns what you asked for when searching, i also find the amazon site rubbish for filtering and sorting.

 

Keeping it product related, i've never really thought about the 89 but now i've done more reading it's a great loco with historical importance, something to consider to go with my 90 and forth coming 91 (still think it's butt ugly though)

Agreed ever since they updated their website, it has become quite an ordeal to look for some items. The search bar is far from satisfactory. That being said I place a majority of my orders with them. Sadly that has reduced since they stopped stocking Hornby products. Seems to have come at a good time as there's been issues with paying via Paypal. Issues that the older website didn't have.
 

2 hours ago, Oliver Rails said:

Hi, 

 

Apologies for the difficultly some people have experienced finding the Class 89 topic. As we are still in the "register you interest" stage, the product listings haven't actually been created. The search bar only searches for product listings rather than new stories and topics, this is why no results were found during a search.

 

Our website is always evolving and we are constantly working to improve the user experience, with new updates expected early in the new year. I have noted all feedback and hopefully we will be able to resolve some issues in the next update.

 

Back onto the Class 89, just to clarify the link can be found here:

https://railsofsheffield.com/news/articles/3418-iconic-class-89-in-oo

 

 

Interest continues to grow for the project and we aim to give an update shortly. 

 

Many thanks
Oliver @ Rails

 

 

 

 

A project such as the Class 89 you'll are doing with Accurascale is quite a huge and important one. I suggest having a permanent banner on your home page advertising it.
 

2 hours ago, Oliver Rails said:

Also, We have added the restored 2020 Intercity Swallow named 'Avocet' to the potential list. We have had many inquiries regarding should the project progress, would the new restored livery be produced.

That's excellent news! I hope that drives up the sales a bit.

[LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004]

4 hours ago, Oliver Rails said:

Also, We have added the restored 2020 Intercity Swallow named 'Avocet' to the potential list. We have had many inquiries regarding should the project progress, would the new restored livery be produced.

Well that’s 2 on my wanted list now!

[adb968008]

10 hours ago, jonnyuk said:

(still think it's butt ugly though)

Google class 70, you’ll return here saying how beautiful the class 89 is.

(And to think we used to make fun of George Bush at the same time as looking at the 89.. now you have to consider him a great leader looking forwards to the world today).

Edited November 2, 2020 by adb968008

[jonnyuk]

10 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Google class 70, you’ll return here saying how beautiful the class 89 is.

(And to think we used to make fun of George Bush at the same time as looking at the 89.. now you have to consider him a great leader looking forwards to the world today).

the 70...........................as for the Bush family....well if his father had some balls and finished the job to begin with, might not have the sh*t storm that is the middle east right now. 

[InterCity80s]

20 hours ago, Oliver Rails said:

Also, We have added the restored 2020 Intercity Swallow named 'Avocet' to the potential list. We have had many inquiries regarding should the project progress, would the new restored livery be produced.

 

Thanks for the updates Oliver - glad to hear things are still progressing with this.

 

Does this mean that the original Intercity Swallow liveried version will be unnamed?

[Pete the Elaner]

3 minutes ago, InterCity80s said:

 

Does this mean that the original Intercity Swallow liveried version will be unnamed?

 

I may be wrong, but I don't think it ever carried a name while it was in its original livery.