Loco Headlamp Codes

[The Stationmaster]

21 hours ago, Grovenor said:

My copy of the 1960 General Appendix does not have the supplements so only shows the original A-K classes. There is no textual explanation as to where the pictures are assumed to be viewed from so the authors must have taken it to be self evident. How else do you interpret a view clearly looking at the loco from the front, which is how I have always understood it

If drivers were regularly getting it wrong then one must assume that confusing class C with class E, or D with F, or J with K did not have particularly adverse consequences.

If you look on Page 71 of that Appendix you will see the paragraph

'Each train will be signalled and take precedence in accordance with the engine head lamps, or discs, except where instructions are issued to the contrary, and Drivers will be responsible for seeing that the proper head code is carried.'  

 

That paragraph continued unaltered in the 1972 reissue of the General Appendix.  Additionally the 1972 edition says[(in the case of locos etc. not able to carry classification numbers]  '... head lamps or white discs, as described in the table below'.  That table, on Page 86, illustrates the 'Head Code' next to the 'Classification (first frame of indicator box)' so logically as the one, i.e Classification  (number) is viewed from the front so would be the other, i.e. Head Code - as seen in the link I posted yesterday and repeated below.

 

As Signalmen etc will only see the Classification (number) or Head Code as presented by an approaching train they could only be guided by the diagrams shown on page 72 in the 1960 edition or Page 86 in the 1972 edition (and at one time also shown in the Block Regulations booklet) and would not have any idea about reversing the position of lamps above the buffers because it simply would not occur to them.  If a train was incorrectly lamped for the Class shown in the WTT and he has not received prior advice about the change of classification a Signalman should either send a 5-3 bell code 'Last Train incorrectly Described' and then send the correct code for the lamps he has observed the train to be carrying or, more likely. it would be a 'phone message to the 'box in advance to say the train is lamped as something different from what has been offered to him to enable that next 'box to correct it forward before the train reaches him.

 

And, as I said previously, all of that is what I was taught back in the late 1960s

 

http://www.2d53.co.uk/Headcode/headcodeC.htm

[BMacdermott]

4 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

Speaking with Mike Arlett - who spent many hours in Midford Signal Box (and others) - tells me that headlamp codes on the S&D were of little or no consideration for Signalmen, such was the nature of the line. 

 

Hello again

 

I should have added there that - whilst the headlamp code was not a particular detail for the Signalmen - the tail lamp was. (Just in case anyone thinks S&D staff were 'cavalier').

 

Brian

[The Stationmaster]

4 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

 

Hello Mike

 

I hope a little later to have some detail for you concerning 1958 when the WR took over control from Bath (Green Park) to Templecombe.

 

The entire S&D line retained its own lamp code right up to the end (apart from what I will detail later as above).  There were some other exceptions over the years, such as:

1. When a loco was incorrectly lamped up (and I can find no more than a handful of such cases).

2. An Inspection Train (with Class A headlamp code).

3. When The Pines Express headboard was carried on the loco's chimney lamp bracket, a lamp was placed above each buffer (looking like a 'normal' Class A train). 

 

Speaking with Mike Arlett - who spent many hours in Midford Signal Box (and others) - tells me that headlamp codes on the S&D were of little or no consideration for Signalmen, such was the nature of the line. 

 

A somewhat 'comic aside' happened on 24 December 1959. The Up Pines arrived at Evercreech Junction to find no assisting loco available for the climb over the Mendips. A Jinty was summoned from Radstock (No.47496) and proudly piloted No.34028 Eddystone up to Bath (Green Park)...with a lamp over each buffer!

 

Brian

Having known more than a few 'Darset' men - both Signalmen and enginemen (among others including a couple of ex-Stationmasters) numerous tales can be told of what really went on there as opposed to what was supposed to go on.  Our trains Superintendent at Reading in the latter half of the 1960s had been the last Operating Superintendent based at Green Park and although not an S&DJt 'original' he was well aware of much that was, shall we say, ' a tad questionable' that went on on the S&D Jt.  What happened on some of the more remote WR lines was almost as questionable and even in the mid 1970s we had some right harum-scarum sorts and rather dubious characters from both, so to speak,  'in our care'.   I seriously wondered at times if certain S&D Jt Signalmen, among others, cared all that much about anything as long as the job was seen to be working.  One former Western Stationmaster, a colleague of mine, who acquired various ex S&D Jt people on his staff after the closure of the S&DJt remained highly distrustful of them until the day he retired - occasionally with just cause.  But overall I think they were not too much different from the run of the mill conuntry railway fol;k who had - shall we say - as many remunerative or enjoyable extra mural activities as they did in their main employment (or in the time of their main employment).

[BMacdermott]

Hello Mike

 

Are we drifting from the topic?

 

Brian

[Grovenor]

5 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

If you look on Page 71 of that Appendix you will see the paragraph

'Each train will be signalled and take precedence in accordance with the engine head lamps, or discs, except where instructions are issued to the contrary, and Drivers will be responsible for seeing that the proper head code is carried.' 

And, just as I said does not tell you whether the pictures are to be interpreted as looking from the front or from the cab!

 

But since LMS2968 has now stated that the loco crew will put a class K headlamp on the left buffer then obviously they are doing it right! They learn the appendix table looking in a mirror.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Grovenor

[The Stationmaster]

One interesting aside to this is what could be found in old signal box Train Register Books where you could come across a note stating that such & such a freight train was running as Class so & so (instead of its booked class).  In some cases this could almost certainly be traced back to trains running with more, or fewer, fitted vehicles than planned hence its classification would change and that would be advised by a 'boxer' (box-to-box) message to advise Signalmen of the change.   The interesting bit would have been when the change was as a result of 5-3 bell code but it would need some checking of old TRBs to trace any instances of that.

 

I do know that it happened on the Western in respect of train classification numbers carried on diesels and there was apparently at one time quite a rash of Signalmen taking action to deal with trains with incorrect classification numbers - which led to a verbal instruction to ignore incorrect numbers and later to a written Instruction to ignore them and  finally completely doing away with them.  

[BMacdermott]

Hello Mike

 

Interesting point above.

 

It has probably been discussed elsewhere, but it has always struck me as odd that LMS (then LMR) lamps were black...which seemed to make a Signalman's job very hard in daylight, particularly in poor light weather conditions. White lamps were used from about 1961, I think, but old habits always die hard...or not at all.

 

As a 'slightly off topic' subject - but clearly related to headlamps - train reporting numbers on southbound S&D trains more often than not remained on northbound workings. These often trip up those writing captions who were unaware of the situation.

 

When 4-character headcodes were introduced, the 'niceties' of typography weren't detailed to S&D crews. Peter Smith well recalls Donald Beale saying to him (such as) "We're on the Ten-Ninety-Five tomorrow, Peter".

 

What they took as a figure zero was, of course, a capital O (thus, One-Oscar-Nine-Five).

 

Understanding of such matters wasn't helped as a plethora of different typefaces and sizes were employed, often pasted on white discs. On the S&D, it is easy to see the same disc in use year after year.

 

Brian

 

[Peter Kazmierczak]

The LMS, in their WTTs, were quite adept in noting that the same category of train might be signalled differently. For example, the 10.35am empties from Chaddesden to Avenue were signalled as a through freight, whilst the 10.31am empties from Rowsley to Blackwell were signalled as an express freight.

[The Stationmaster]

On 28/05/2020 at 13:54, BMacdermott said:

Hello Mike

 

Interesting point above.

 

It has probably been discussed elsewhere, but it has always struck me as odd that LMS (then LMR) lamps were black...which seemed to make a Signalman's job very hard in daylight, particularly in poor light weather conditions. White lamps were used from about 1961, I think, but old habits always die hard...or not at all.

 

As a 'slightly off topic' subject - but clearly related to headlamps - train reporting numbers on southbound S&D trains more often than not remained on northbound workings. These often trip up those writing captions who were unaware of the situation.

 

When 4-character headcodes were introduced, the 'niceties' of typography weren't detailed to S&D crews. Peter Smith well recalls Donald Beale saying to him (such as) "We're on the Ten-Ninety-Five tomorrow, Peter".

 

What they took as a figure zero was, of course, a capital O (thus, One-Oscar-Nine-Five).

 

Understanding of such matters wasn't helped as a plethora of different typefaces and sizes were employed, often pasted on white discs. On the S&D, it is easy to see the same disc in use year after year.

 

Brian

 

The question of lamp colours is an interesting one and oddly something came to light yesterday while checking through the minute books for items regarding train classification and lamping.  The LNER, according to a GWR minute, began to change over to using white engine headlamps in 1926.  But the responsible GWR committee decided not to follow the LNER lead as no problems had been reported following its earlier decision to change the colour of engine headlamps from black to red in order to improve their visibility to Signalmen.  The GWR of course moved from red to white for engine headlamps at a much later date.  (it moved from black to white for tail lamp bodies in the 1930s but retained black for side lamps).

 

In a previous post I wrote -

'One interesting aside to this is what could be found in old signal box Train Register Books where you could come across a note stating that such & such a freight train was running as Class so & so (instead of its booked class).  In some cases this could almost certainly be traced back to trains running with more, or fewer, fitted vehicles than planned hence its classification would change and that would be advised by a 'boxer' (box-to-box) message to advise Signalmen of the change.   The interesting bit would have been when the change was as a result of 5-3 bell code but it would need some checking of old TRBs to trace any instances of that.'

 

I yesterday came across Rules & Regulation Committee Minute 946 of 11 June 1937 which stated that the 'phone should be used to advise forward if a train was not of the class it had been block signalled as.  

 

One pertinent point - although it is post steam era, but still in the age of many diesels fitted with headcode discs - is that from May 1969 different emergency Signalling Regulations applied to Class 6(fully fitted) and Class 8 trains (partly fitted) - i.e the two codes which used one lamp/disc at the top and one over each buffer (but opposite buffers of course) so it was essential that a Signalman could distinguish one from the other.

 

 

 

[GWR_Modeller]

I have just come across three photographs of engines with a single central lamp on the buffer beam.  This was in 'Great Western Railway in the 1930s'.  The problem is that is the light engine code 'G' and the three  trains consisted of 10 passenger coaches, a B set and an unknown number of carriages.  

 

So can anybody suggest what might be going on?

[BMacdermott]

Hello GWR Modeller

 

That code was used on many branch lines, continuing into BR days.

 

For example, if you look at Chris Leigh's Railway World Special "Cornish Riviera", you will find on page 43 a photo of two small prairies at the head of the St Ives portion of the train in 1958...with lamp over centre buffer beam of the leading loco. The coaches cannot be counted accurately due to the angle of the photo, but there are at least eight and probably more like ten.

 

As an aside - but related topic - empty stock trains to and from Old Oak Common (or West London Sidings) and Paddington carried lamp under chimney and lamp over right buffer (when viewed from the cab in forward direction and often with a duty number disc over the left buffer). This was a freight code elsewhere.

 

Brian

[Nick Holliday]

9 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

Hello GWR Modeller

 

That code was used on many branch lines, continuing into BR days.

 

For example, if you look at Chris Leigh's Railway World Special "Cornish Riviera", you will find on page 43 a photo of two small prairies at the head of the St Ives portion of the train in 1958...with lamp over centre buffer beam of the leading loco. The coaches cannot be counted accurately due to the angle of the photo, but there are at least eight and probably more like ten.

 

As an aside - but related topic - empty stock trains to and from Old Oak Common (or West London Sidings) and Paddington carried lamp under chimney and lamp over right buffer (when viewed from the cab in forward direction and often with a duty number disc over the left buffer). This was a freight code elsewhere.

 

Brian

From at least 1936 until 1960 the GWR and BR (GWR) noted that Code B, a lamp under the chimney, would apply to ordinary passenger trains, and branch passenger trains, with an asterisk against the BPT reference with the footnote "B head lamps are subject to alteration in case of through trains working over Branches as shown in the Service Books." I haven't got access to these so perhaps others can advise what might be contained therein.

 

[GWR_Modeller]

Okay a local variation to GWR standard codes.  Thanks.

[Pannier Tank]

15 hours ago, Nick Holliday said:

From at least 1936 until 1960 the GWR and BR (GWR) noted that Code B, a lamp under the chimney, would apply to ordinary passenger trains, and branch passenger trains, with an asterisk against the BPT reference with the footnote "B head lamps are subject to alteration in case of through trains working over Branches as shown in the Service Books." I haven't got access to these so perhaps others can advise what might be contained therein.

 

 

That might explain why photographs show some trains on the Moretonhampstead Branch Line carrying "B Head Lamp" and others "G Head Lamp" (through train working over branch line?). I'll check through my books to see if there is a pattern.

[BMacdermott]

Hello Pannier Tank

 

Just looked at my Churston branch book...no pattern there. And when the Autotrailer is 'leading', there is only one central bracket for it to go on (excluding the tail lamp one which is lower and to one side).

 

Brian

[The Stationmaster]

With auto trains you need to know where the tail lamps went at each particular time of day as well as any local modification of Class B lamp positions.   Oh, and it changed a bit - officially - over the years plus you need to allow for some  crews using the tail lamp position for the headlamp to save moving the lamp from one bracket to the other (just take out the red slide).