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Knightacott - 7mm newbie BLT


jamest
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Hi all,

 

Like many before me I have recently had thoughts about moving up to O gauge.

 

In February I bought a Dapol 08 (green) and I also have a few 12T vans and 3 lengths of peco track. I was happy thinking about things and running my 08 up and down a plain piece of track while still finishing my OO projects, but a new purchase has hastened my desire to start a layout in O gauge. Last Sunday I was browsing the net and spotted a Heljan class 25 in just the livery I wanted (green with small yellow panels) at a very good price. Here we are a week later and I am hooked - what a lovely loco!

 

I had a shed built several years ago with OO in mind so I do not have a massive amount of space - just over 11 feet by 2 feet for layout (including fiddle yard) going down one side of said shed. I'm quite experienced in OO planning and know what proportions generally work - I know in theory all I need to do is multiply that OO knowledge by 1.75 for 7mm, but I wanted to run a few thoughts past some experts.

 

I'd like to do something like the plan below - its not revolutionary, and is very similar to other layouts I have seen done already, but I'm already excited about getting something going. So a platform - with a possible bay at the top - run around off scene and a couple of sidings on the front. Having done a bit of planning in the past I know what I want to run is limited by my run around loop and fiddle yard length. In the plan below I have around 52" for a fiddle yard, 7' scenic length and the run around is about 46" from the front of the top RH point to the exit of the scenic area. I would like to run a couple of mk1 coaches with the class 25 and I reckon that is about 18" a coach (at 63'5" in real life) coupled with about 14" to allow for the loco - so it should be do-able?

 

So the green area is scenic and the track is all peco (RH and wye):

 

456217889_ogauge1.jpg.353fea5fa81146d3f98e8637adc6ed7b.jpg

 

I have also debated DC against DCC and have decided to stick with DC for now - in the knowledge that I can move over to DCC if I wire the layout with that in mind. I also have a eye on a Dapol 121 when they are released and I also need to acquire/build some more rolling stock.

 

So any advice is greatly received (although I have ordered a gaugemaster DC O gauge controller - so please no stories about how I will regret not going for sound!!) 

 

Regards,

James

Edited by jamest
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Well I am pleased that you have made a move to 0 gauge.  I did that about 4 yrs and my first loco was also the Dapol 08 in green (snap!).

 

As for your layout plan, I recommend you have a look at Andy P's Trebudoc (and anything else he has done):

 

 

Layout is 9' long all in.  It uses the sector plate to complete the run round.  I recommend a sector plate and not a fiddle yard.  This is an early pic of mine, pivot nearest the camera:

 

004.JPG.b0520b35224b461934b974b515c36a35.JPG

 

My own layout is 21' long incl 5' sector plate.  The station is designed to take two 61' coaches.  I am not certain that your short length will permit the use of two long coaches comfortably.  Maybe an autocoach or DMU?

 

Here's a long view:

 

P1010218.JPG.d4767e183d8e2a71ef6bc62f1ce2e37b.JPG

 

Nothing revolutionary, just your bog standard BLT.

 

I sold off all my 00 stock knowing I haven't the time, energy or resources to maintain two scales.  I am so much happier doing 0 than I ever was doing 00 with all the compromises.

 

BTW you WILL regret not doing DCC sound.  One of my first decisions was to install sound.

 

You can see more of my bodgery in the link below.

 

John

 

Edited by brossard
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Hi John,

 

I've been following yours, and several other, layouts on here - thanks for the advice.

 

I have sold some OO stock, but I am not planning to sell it all for now - I have a layout I'd like to move on to generate some funds for re-investment!

 

I plan either a traverser or sector plate 'off scene' - Although I would like to keep the man handling of the stock to a minimum - but cassettes seem a little risky/heavy

 

This plan is very much based around Andy Peters work - its difficult to miss his work as it accounts for half the layouts on here! (meant as admiring praise!). I've always admired the 'flow' he gets with a lot of his track plans. He uses standard point work but still finds curves and flow.

 

I'm hoping the 46" run around will give enough room for two coaches (assuming I am correct at about 18" each) with room at the point for the loco to pass with clearance. I envisage the passengers alighting and the loco and coaches reversing slight into the run around for reversing. I will plan further with templates and stock before committing to glue and ballast.

 

I see your point on the sound, and I'm not ruling it out as my Lenz controller will do it when I need to, but for now I'd rather be running what I want in silence than have less stock with sound. But I realise that is a personal choice and a debate topic in itself!

 

Regards,

James

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Glad to know you've been looking around.  It is the best way to get ideas.

 

I think these small layouts are best suited for shunting goods stock.  After all, pretty much all you can do with passenger stock is pull in, run round and pull out again.  Usually some passenger movements are desirable but I think focus should be on goods.

 

I dithered, hummed and hawed for quite some time before settling on track plan.  Take your time.

 

I had sound on some of 00 locos and it does make a difference.  However, it is also expensive, costing almost as much as the loco itself.  You don't necessarily need an XL decoder for 0 (although the Heljan might need one) all of mine (Dapol with a couple of Tower Brass) use the standard 2A decoder (Zimo MX644D) without trouble.

 

John

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Hi,

 

I dont think o scales up quite like that as you can get away with tighter curves/points in OO without it being quite as apparent.

 

I suggest you get 3 or 4 bits of flexi together and run a loco up and down and you'll get an idea - it will barely have started when you need to brake again

 

11ft including fiddle yard really is small - I think 2 coaches is asking a lot in that space and would just look cramped even if it was technically feasible.

 

With smaller trains you could consider having the fiddle yard line appear mid way from behind scenery, to get the most out of the space.

 

 

Edited by Hal Nail
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Hi again, 

 

Thanks again for the advice.... The scaling up I mentioned was more concerned with rolling stock dimensions.... Not the actual scaling up of an oo plan.... Sorry if I wasn't clear there. 

 

You are right about the limited space to run... I did think about having the fiddle yard outside the shed... But then the weather dictates a bit. I might leave the passenger duties to the dmu and concentrate on running freight with the other motive power.

 

Regards,

James

 

 

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Good luck, great to see another convert. The track plan is similar to Peasevern Yard (which is a scaled up version of my 4mm layout Peafore Yard), I have less space than you but think the track plan is operationally sound, as others have said it is not as easy as it sounds to scale up 4mm to 7mm,  the main thing I am finding is the width of the boards being less generous for adding scenic so have had to do some creative compression.

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4 hours ago, 37114 said:

Good luck, great to see another convert. The track plan is similar to Peasevern Yard (which is a scaled up version of my 4mm layout Peafore Yard), I have less space than you but think the track plan is operationally sound, as others have said it is not as easy as it sounds to scale up 4mm to 7mm,  the main thing I am finding is the width of the boards being less generous for adding scenic so have had to do some creative compression.

Hi, 

 

I've been following your o gauge work.... Always liked your oo gauge stuff... Especially pallet Lane, and didn't you bring peafore yard to barnstaple? 

 

I got my gaugemaster GMC-100 MO in the post today and I am running in my 25. Off the rolling Road, on a few lengths of track, it moves so smoothly with such presence..... Must resist the urge to sell all my oo stuff! 

 

It is very smooth on dc with the right controller.... And I remember you always used it on your layouts. I don't plan to have a massive stud of locos, or have large complicated layouts, but I could go dcc if I want sound later. 

 

Cheers,

James

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9 hours ago, jamest said:

Hi, 

 

I've been following your o gauge work.... Always liked your oo gauge stuff... Especially pallet Lane, and didn't you bring peafore yard to barnstaple? 

 

I got my gaugemaster GMC-100 MO in the post today and I am running in my 25. Off the rolling Road, on a few lengths of track, it moves so smoothly with such presence..... Must resist the urge to sell all my oo stuff! 

 

It is very smooth on dc with the right controller.... And I remember you always used it on your layouts. I don't plan to have a massive stud of locos, or have large complicated layouts, but I could go dcc if I want sound later. 

 

Cheers,

James

Hi James, yes I took Peafore Yard down to Barnstaple back in 2015 when Richard (Mudmagnet) was organiser. The Gaugemaster is a good controller,  have always had them, will look forward to seeing your progress. 

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  • 1 year later...
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Hi all, 

 

Been a while but it has taken a while to get started on this. 

I've moved on my Greenwood layout to provide room and funds to make a start on the boards. 

Here they are..... A three foot and four foot long section by two feet wide. This will be the scenic section joined to a four foot fiddle yard. 

Surprisingly the plan is the same! Except for a LH point in place of the wye.

 

Despite saying I was sticking to DC my class 25 is away with jintyman for DCC fitting and weathering and I have added sound to my 08. I have a 122 DMU coming next week and I have also accumulated some Dapol wagons. 

 

Here are some pictures as evidence.... The card represents the station building and signal box. 

 

IMG_20210821_142201.jpg.a2e89708d980b2a2510833ec3a56de74.jpg

 

IMG_20210821_142214.jpg.0dc6416cdef0f0aa2856d814d045631e.jpg

 

The three foot board is on the end with one point and the loco release and siding ends.

I've added Cork to the whole surface. 

 

From the other side...... 

The gap you see under the point template is a gap in the Cork sheet... Not a baseboard join. The join is on the nearside of the station. 
I was going to join the scenic boards permanently but I think that is an unwieldy solution at two foot wide and would prevent me taking out the layout, if invited, one day.

I'm still waiting for the left hand point to come into stock. 

IMG_20210821_142251.jpg.4783f9c8a81b68c242349e6b361fdff8.jpg

 

I will have to be careful where I cross boards... After playing with which board goes where and the point options I feel this is the right solution and gives me the right loco release length while keeping the points off the joins.... 

IMG_20210821_142307.jpg.3c849683ca8ff5fc0439abf3b9789b19.jpg

 

Looking forward to progress now. 

 

Regards, 

James

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Hi all, 

 

Got my LH point now so I've started track laying. I'm going to glue down the track with copydex. 

 

I've also got my laser cut signal box and station building... Very impressed with them and how they go together. 

 

IMG_20210827_190330.jpg.29d1b53b4f92f58d28dc9544526f25c0.jpg

 

IMG_20210827_185950.jpg.40a8189b693ee1a45bfefd2a42e2adf9.jpg

 

IMG_20210830_113456.jpg.0e5a80a2ff9c5a9ea8bfebf4c4a66cd4.jpg

 

IMG_20210830_113440.jpg.e7c177ea0369ac524b1fe34cab83cfe3.jpg

 

Here we go! 

Loco release and first point under the tins. 

 

IMG_20210830_113257.jpg.016776fcb84c683cae2bf743e3dc7656.jpg

 

IMG_20210830_113310.jpg.43fa8063b61d5d789927260e17f62a21.jpg

 

Cheers, 

James

 

 

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59 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

Before you go too far, I'd suggest you lay and test all your track before gluing it down. (Don't bother asking how I know this.)

 

Once the track is tested, you can glue at the same time as you are putting down the ballast with dilute pva.

 

 

Hi, 

 

Thanks for the advice.... I have been ultra careful to check every soldered feed before gluing down, especially the points! There is something about the price of an O gauge point that focuses the mind. 

 

I know others use the glue down and ballast in one go technique but, in my opinion, it only works well with thiner sleepers. Couple that with trying to manage track testing and alignment and I think I'd be multi-tasking too much. 

 

I have progressed more than is pictured above and hope to show more pictures later. 

 

I currently have more tinned produce in my shed than tescos! 

 

Cheers, 

James 

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  • jamest changed the title to New layout - 7mm newbie BLT

Lots of baked beans - yum!

 

I agree with HH that you do need to test thoroughly before doing something irrevocable.

 

Another thing is that for my layout, I chose to use Woodland Scenics foam underlay and Tacky Glue to stick everything down.  I like to challenge the conventional wisdom.  The nice thing about TG is that, if you make a mistake (and you will), it allows the track to be pulled up cleanly.  My track plan has been finalized and track glued down for probably a year now.  There have been numerous operating sessions and the team is very happy with things.  There's a shunting video in the FB link below.

 

I would also add that ballasting should be left until you are certain there will be no more track adjustments.

 

John

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Hi guys, 

 

You can reverse copydex and get the track up but I've got to admit that I previously tried this on the track directly to the baseboard surface, not cork. I think it would be harder to lift here without some serious damage and rework to the Cork. 

 

I have good news and embarassing news...... 

 

I've got the main scenic track done now.... What you see here is glued down. 

IMG_20210903_145030.jpg.534469cd8607a9261b00409d6f10f79b.jpg

 

IMG_20210903_145051.jpg.760843c196c17d46fac8446e3caa230d.jpg

 

I've cut the track over the join.... Went well.... 

IMG_20210903_145105.jpg.1623f2c9f1acd42b9e05e1ad7b96f386.jpg

 

IMG_20210903_145111.jpg.6fb24bfd0ed7acbbc026b0fc1ac79366.jpg

 

Now the embarassing bit... See the below pic of the four foot board. It shows off the board construction well. This is my first attempt at a mostly ply board and it is very light and rigid. 

IMG_20210903_162211.jpg.bc3f31095787eeb10e52e36b06cc5c4d.jpg

I connected up the controller and got an error... A short... I employ a simple DDC system of green and white wires to inside and outside rails. The frog is yellow and controlled by cobalt point motors not shown in this picture. 

I traced the, not complicated, wiring and everything seemed fine by eye. I started to worry I had not cut the frog feeds under one of the points prior to fitting, but I tested and proved it unlikely. I went through every feed to check and then noticed my very basic error. 

To the right of the picture you will see a green and white wire threaded through the diagonal brace ready for the future two exit tracks to the fiddle yard. I fed them through the hole to keep them out of the way.... One of the strands from green is touching white! Doh! 

 

The good news is everything works well now, including the colbalts, and I have run my 08 around to test. 

 

Cheers, 

James

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Hi all, 

 

Been running this beauty this morning. Just a plain OO 21 pin decoder for now.... Sound later. 

 

Really pleased with it for the price, hats off to Dapol. I'm sure there are errors I am unaware of, but it has a great weighty presence and the packaging and presentation is first class. 

 

IMG_20210904_163444.jpg.51c74a1d56aa2b653e22d30847f0fc58.jpg

 

IMG_20210904_163215.jpg.e50fa4678ec0082ecf422256143d0cc5.jpg

 

Cheers

James 

Edited by jamest
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James

 

If you are intending to take down and put up the layout frequently might I suggest you solder the rail ends to brass screws at the baseboard end.

 

This photo will sort of show what I mean.

 

post-3038-0-77790800-1531315216.jpg.73c3dbec76d90411f3e48a85222df81f.jpg

 

This was when I was extending a siding on Black Notley. I had to remove the end sleeper on the right to put screws in (not illustrated here).

 

Paul R

 

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Hi Paul,

 

Thanks for the advice.

 

I don’t intend to break the layout down often and I had thought about one scenic board….or permanently joining these two. But I want to keep an eye on portability just in case I’m ever asked to take it anywhere - or I need to move it at home for any reason. A seven foot by two foot board, with all the fittings, seemed a bit unwieldy.

 

I have used the brass screw under the rail on my other layouts but was hoping to get away with it here - mostly for scenic reasons. I could retro fit something to help if it doesn’t work out. I’m going to test this over time and I have a few jobs to do before ballasting it, so we’ll see how it goes.

 

I am going to concentrate on the four foot fiddle yard next so the scenic track can be finished. I have considered my options and a traverser is planned at the moment to aid running around. I do prefer cassettes in OO due to the cutting down on handling stock….but that is when the whole loop in on the scenic section. I feel it will become fiddly and tiresome to have cassettes here. But I haven’t ruled it out.

 

suggestions welcome!
 

Cheers

James

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My experience with moving layouts is that 00 rail can get snagged by woolly jumpers and unzip.  Not something you want to happen anytime, but especially at shows.  Using brass screws to anchor rail ends is effective but difficult to look good.

 

I gave thought to anchoring rail ends with screws as Paul advises.  However, my feeling is that 0 gauge track is much more robust than 00 and I haven't bothered.

 

If moving the layout, it is a good idea, I think, to make end protectors to shield the rail ends from damage.  Also, perhaps to ban the wearing of woolly jumpers by helpers.

 

John

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Another approach that I use on my layouts to protect the ends when transporting is to have an end board, made of a suitable sized piece of plywood (6mm) and a strip of hardboard glued onto the plywood so that bolts go through both sections into the end of the baseboard. The hardboard strip is narrower than the depth of the baseboard frame.

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