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Old Mainline Mk1 Coaches - removing bogies?

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(Did a search but failed to find an answer)

 

I have come across two Mainline Mk1 coaches of 1980 vintage. In getting them out I remembered that they were poor runners.

 

No wonder - the 'pinpoint' axles are so sloppy in the bearing boxes (OK - holes...) that they can rise up on the pinpoint and the flanges actually touch the coach underframe! If I pull them along a smooth flat table by the tension lock coupling I can see some wheels occasionally stop turning and just drag.

 

So, this all needs fixing.

 

Q: can some tell me how to remove the body to get at the bogie pins? (It doesn't look like the bogie pins are the easy 'split' one slike the old B-set I have just done - were they simply pull off).

 

Thanks!
 

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Evening!

 

You should find these just pull off too ....unless they have been modified in some way.... same split pin system IIRC

 

 

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Brilliant, thanks Phil.

 

Wanted to check before doing that as they seems much tighter. Unmodified as bought new by me waaaay back then.

 

As I am detailing the old Airfix B-set, might use the wheelsets from that on these - mainly as one obvious spot is that the axles on these old Mainlines are 25.5mm long, and the Airfix are 26.5mm.

 

That 1mm will completely address the hopeless slop of axle in box.

 

Bit of a bodge but I don't intend doing anything else - would just like them to run! Taken 40 years and ChinaVirus to get around to it...

Edited by 97xx

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Good to hear...they are still good models! Are you putting plastic or metal wheels in?

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Probably the plastic (metal axle) ones extracted from the B-set for now, for which I have bought full metal.

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6 minutes ago, 97xx said:

Probably the plastic (metal axle) ones extracted from the B-set for now, for which I have bought full metal.


Ah .... go for metal if you can, your track will be so much cleaner

  • Agree 3

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12 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

Evening!

 

You should find these just pull off too ....unless they have been modified in some way.... same split pin system IIRC

 

 

Hmm, just tried again and not budging. That's with a Swann Morton No.3 used as a flat (and therefore harmless but strong) lever.

 

The bogie pins do look superficially different - more counterbored and with dimple - versus B-set ones which were raised and thus easy to prise directly and equally using tweezers.

 

Body off job then.

Edited by 97xx

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7 minutes ago, 97xx said:

Hmm, just tried again and not budging. That's with a Swann Morton No.3 used as a flat (and therefore harmless but strong) lever.

 

The bogie pins do look superficially different - more counterbored and with dimple - versus B-set ones which were raised and thus easy to prise directly and equally using tweezers.

 

Body off job then.

 

The plastic has probably hardened with time.

 

Take a largish, flat-head screwdriver; insert between underframe and bogie adjacent to the pivot pin; and twist.

 

John Isherwood.

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In my Mainline MK1 coaches the pins are glued into the bogies, suggest you remove the body and take a closer look. It would be a shame to damage something for the sake of a quick check.

 

 

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56 minutes ago, sjp23480 said:

In my Mainline MK1 coaches the pins are glued into the bogies, suggest you remove the body and take a closer look. It would be a shame to damage something for the sake of a quick check.

 

 


Agreed but should be clip fit in to body floor.....

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Assume you mean pins are glued to underframe, not bogie?

 

My pins are apparently fixed to the floor/underframe as the bogies rotate freely on a pin that appears immovable/does not rotate separately.

 

Right answer is body off to avoid ruining something...

Edited by 97xx

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Do you actually need to remove the bogies? Carefully prise and lever out the old wheels on their axles, insert the replacements... If need be you can ream out the holes (and the angle at the bottom of each hole) with various tools made for the purpose, add some graphite (soft lead pencil) and "prise-in" the replacements

When I did this myself I was very worried something would break, but nothing did. I did very carefully warm the plastic slightly with a hair dryer first. 

Needed to use a small flat banded screwdriver as a lever, out and in. 

Thanks to Phil and Brossard and others for the help doing mine! 

Edited by flockandroll
Remove random extra letters!

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Took a look at mine, but I have bolted the bogies to the coach floor, so I must have destroyed the original fixture getting them off?  Per 97XX, I suspect you will need to revise a new way to secure the bogies if you do any to remove them.

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Agree, no real need to remove bogies - just that as the bogies tops themselves need a bit of filing down (as longer axles which will fit recess properly mean wheels will be harder to get in and the bogie top already substantially fouls the flange).

 

Anyway, thanks all, not a difficult task just wanted to take easiest path. 

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If all else fails and you have to cut the bogies out, you should be able to make new pivots out of 8BA brass nuts and bolts, and a few washers.  Superglue the bolt to the inside of the floor centrally over the hole (you might need a flange washer to stop it falling through the hole). Now, use washers as spacers and find out by trial and error how many you need to get the coach to sit at the correct height, by matching the buffer heights with another vehicle (not Hornby unless it's very recent).  Then place a further washer on the underside of the bogie and secure it with a nut, leaving a little vertical play and enough looseness for the bogie to swing.

 

As to the bogie itself, the best thing is to ream out the conical axle holes and put brass top hat bearings in, and replace the plastic wheelsets from your B set with metal wheels which will run better and keep your track cleaner.  This will transform the running of the coach; I standardise on Bachman coach wheels for replacement purposes.  Give the plastic wheels the opportunity of an exciting new career in the landfill business in case you are tempted to use them for anything else.  

 

This is an awkward job as you cannot ream the holes out square because the other side of the bogie is in the way; just be glad they're not commonwealths.  Don't worry, get them as square as you can, but allow clearance so that you can fit the top hats square and true before you superglue them in place.  Fit the wheelset and a use it as a tool to adjust the squareness of the axles to the bogie before the glue sets, so use slow setting gloopy s/glue.  You should be able to get the axles parallel and level by sight, within acceptable tolerances. but take care and time over this.

 

Or just replace the bogies with current Bachmann B1s, Commonwealths, or B4s depending on your period which are available as separate items.

Edited by The Johnster

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So the answer is that the bogie pins are in fact free to turn BUT they are hot pressed over inside the coach.

 

Just in case anyone else faces the same challenge - don't think just because the pins turn (suggesting that they are split and will withdraw), don't try to force them.

 

Also, the easy re-fit is a ca. 1/4" 6BA cheesehead which will self-tap itself into the underframe hole plus the head suitably locates in the counterbore in the bogie. Very slightly loose fit in hole so bogie does have 1mm to/from play but can't see any issue with that.

Edited by 97xx
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Interesting discovery!

 

First coach - worst runner where witness marks show flanges have touched underframe - bogies removed after releasing body. 

 

Second coach - ditto to find a WASHER between bogie and underframe. Even on this one, there are witness marks at one end where flanges rub on body.

 

China QC...

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On 24/05/2020 at 17:32, 97xx said:

 

Also, the easy re-fit is a ca. 1/4" 6BA cheesehead which will self-tap itself into the underframe hole plus the head suitably locates in the counterbore in the bogie. Very slightly loose fit in hole so bogie does have 1mm to/from play but can't see any issue with that.

Yes, good idea overall but I can see where there may be an issue; you would need to check that the 1mm play, which means 2mm over the two bogies, does not lead to buffer locking when propelling around setrack curves, even of a radius that the coach is specified for and possibly for the next one up.  This has to be a 'suck it and see' job, and if it works, win win.  If it doesn't, then the 8BA bolt, washers, and nuts method will do the job, and you can control the play or slop between the bogie and the pivot. 

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Mk 1s shouldn't bufferlock at all.  They are invariably modelled with buffers in the extended position whereas between BR std coaches coaches they are retracted and the buffing plates, effectively part of the corridor connections take the loads.  Trimming back the buffer shanks so the corridor connections touch with a couple of mm between the buffers cures the problem on coaches within a rake. End coaches are more difficult.

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