RMweb Gold daveyb Posted May 24, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 24, 2020 I happened across a couple of shots on Flikr today (property of Robert Gadsdon and H J Wayt) of the Flying Scotsman on its US tour in the early 70s: The caption/description states that there were a number of converted Mk1 carriages sent along with FS, and my questions relate to them rather than the loco. What happened to the carriages? As is well known, the FS was repatriated after the bankruptcy incident but I can't imagine anyone paying good money to recover a non-standard Mk1. What conversion work was undertaken? Was it a simple case of 'as require to be a support coach' or were there mods to allow use on the US system? My reason for asking their end is related to a thread on here some years ago about Mk1s getting everywhere on preserved lines (it wasn't a particularly productive thread - don't bother searching). Around that thread's time, I was visiting Fort Steele (http://fortsteele.ca/) in the Rocky Mountains of southern British Columbia and saw the railway attraction. The town was formerly an important river crossing point and junction on the Canadian Pacific line into BC coal country and has a loop built as part of the attraction. One of the carriages been towed around the loop was a Mk1! As the thread noted, they get out on most preserved railways but I wasn't expecting one there. I wonder if it was one of the train that arrived across the Atlantic with FS back in the 70s. I didn't get any details from BC and it was fairly incomplete as compared with a service carriage - and wearing a lot of paint. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Marsbar Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 (edited) These threads should answer some of your questions.... http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30923 http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=43124&p=288797&hilit=Flying+scotsman#p288797 The Mk 1 at Fort Steele is/was E3733 according to a copy of the Canadian Trackside Guide from 2001. http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=1242 There were 3(?) Mk 1s at the Boyne City RR in the US in the 1970's along with a British industrial 0-6-0 called "The Flying Duchess" . The 0-6-0 is now on dispay in La Grange, KY, and one of the coaches supposedly was with it, but is not on display there yet. The other 2 Mk 1s from the Boyne City still exist in Standish, Michigan:- http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=1697 http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=1687 . Edited May 24, 2020 by Johann Marsbar Added Boyne City info + carriage details 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted May 24, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 24, 2020 I believe 1 or 2 of the LNER Gresley Teak coaches are now stored with Dwight D Eisenhower. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Marsbar Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Hilux5972 said: I believe 1 or 2 of the LNER Gresley Teak coaches are now stored with Dwight D Eisenhower. No, they are a pair from Eisenhowers mobile command train which went out to the US at the same time as the loco as far as I know....... They have no connection to the Flying Scotsman US Tour. One is an office car conversion and the other a sleeping car, though how authentic the NE green livery is is another question. At the time of my visit to Green Bay in 2011, the A4 was painted the same shade of green.... The sleeping car had the full complement of BR bed linen in the compartments ! Edited May 24, 2020 by Johann Marsbar 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 They'd have carried some sort of military drab colour in service and any external reference to the LNER would have been along the lines of 'On Hire From.....'. If these really are the coaches they claim to be - where were they stored between Eisenhower's last need for them over here and the mid '60s when they went to the 'States ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 (edited) They were still in use as a Cold War train until the late 1960s. I think they were stored at Longmoor and sold when the LMR closed Jason Edited May 24, 2020 by Steamport Southport Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Marsbar Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, Wickham Green too said: They'd have carried some sort of military drab colour in service and any external reference to the LNER would have been along the lines of 'On Hire From.....'. If these really are the coaches they claim to be - where were they stored between Eisenhower's last need for them over here and the mid '60s when they went to the 'States ? I had my doubts about whether they were original vehicles from the train when I walked through them at the Museum, in particular the one still a full sleeping car. The interior of that one looked as though it had just come off a normal BR Anglo-Scottish service, particularly with all the BR monogrammed bed linen in the compartments. The other sleeper had certainly been adapted at some stage into a saloon car with conference table, from memory. The historic carriages register entries for the two are here, but don't really add /clarify any info about them. http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=946 http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=947 As for the colour scheme, I doubt whether anyone at the museum was too bothered about recreating exactly what they should have looked like, particularly as most of their visitors wouldn't know or be bothered anyway. This was the condition of the A4 at the time - obviously just pre return to the UK for the "Great Gathering" event...... Edit: Found this by doing an internet search.. http://www.wisconsinhistoricalmarkers.com/2014/05/why-dwight-came-to-green-bay.html According to the text, the two passenger coaches arrived at the Museum in 1968 - ie after the A4 - and there is a poor photo on there of one of them being unloaded from a ship somewhere in the US. There is actually a page for the coaches as well! http://www.wisconsinhistoricalmarkers.com/2014/08/1591-and-1592.html That at least confirms that they were converted back to sleepers afer WW2 and were used as such until 1966, before being reconfigured at Doncaster back to Command Train configuration - or at least one of them appeared to be from what I saw Edited May 25, 2020 by Johann Marsbar more info 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl Tooley Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: They were still in use as a Cold War train until the late 1960s. All the sources I can find say that the Eisenhower carriages were returned to traffic as sleeping cars after the war. 1592 certainly was. Just now, Johann Marsbar said: I had my doubts about whether they were original vehicles from the train when I walked through them at the Museum, in particular the one still a full sleeping car. The interior of that one looked as though it had just come off a normal BR Anglo-Scottish service, particularly with all the BR monogrammed bed linen in the compartments. And so, it seems, was 1591 Just now, Johann Marsbar said: As for the colour scheme, I doubt whether anyone at the museum was too bothered about recreating exactly what they should have looked like, particularly as most of their visitors wouldn't know or be bothered anyway. They were sufficiently interested to consult the LNER Coach Association on the matter. Evidently, though, they drew the line at reinstating the armour plating. Image shows: E1592E with 'The Tynesider' roofboards. (Dennis Seabrook Collection/LNER Society) Edited May 25, 2020 by Darryl Tooley typo 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Marsbar Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, Darryl Tooley said: All the sources I can find say that the Eisenhower carriages were returned to traffic as sleeping cars after the war. 1592 certainly was. And so, it seems, was 1591 They were sufficiently interested to consult the LNER Coach Association on the matter. Evidently, though, they drew the line at reinstating the armour plating. Image shows: E1592E with 'The Tynesider' roofboards. (Dennis Seabrook Collection/LNER Society) Your reply came through as I was editing my last post! See the link to the Wisconsin Historical Markers site about the 2 coaches that I added....... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 Fascinating stuff - and amazing that anyone could be bothered to track down the original vehicles for reconversion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted May 25, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 25, 2020 This pic shows the stock to be LNER teak when used by Ike. https://www.express.co.uk/news/history/949527/ww2-train-defeat-hitler-secret-covert-operation-eisenhower-churchill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 32 minutes ago, Metr0Land said: This pic shows the stock to be LNER teak when used by Ike. https://www.express.co.uk/news/history/949527/ww2-train-defeat-hitler-secret-covert-operation-eisenhower-churchill It could of course have been re-painted later. Though the white roofs wouldn't be the best of camouflage... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 5 hours ago, Darryl Tooley said: All the sources I can find say that the Eisenhower carriages were returned to traffic as sleeping cars after the war. 1592 certainly was. And so, it seems, was 1591 They were sufficiently interested to consult the LNER Coach Association on the matter. Evidently, though, they drew the line at reinstating the armour plating. Image shows: E1592E with 'The Tynesider' roofboards. (Dennis Seabrook Collection/LNER Society) That clarifies that then. I was probably mistaking them for something else. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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