How much ballast per linear metre?

[Will Hay]

Hello.

I'll be shortly starting on my modelling and would appreciate a heads up as to how much ballast I'll need, per linear metre of track.

 

I have approximately one hundred metres of track and don't want to suffer high cost of small quantities, nor do I want to order way too much.

 

I've read that there are three sizes for 00 gauge so, an idea of perhaps the middle size would be useful.

 

Out of interest, what determines the size of ballast one might use for 00 guage?

 

Thanks.

 

[Guest Half-full]

It all depends on the size of ballast used, size of sleepers and whether its single/double/multiple track, whether the track is canted, whether is steam era or current

 

Fine ballast for N Gauge represents ballast better in OO  

Edited May 25, 2020 by Half-full

[Dungrange]

The amount used will also very by the thickness of the sleepers on the track that you are using.  Using thin sleeper track like SMP will use less ballast than say Peco Streamline, where the sleepers are thicker.  As has been stated above, era, number of tracks and spacing will all influence usage.  I suspect that you'll have to place two orders.  First one, see how you go, and then work out from your usage how much it will take you to finish the layout.

[Pete the Elaner]

3 hours ago, Dungrange said:

I suspect that you'll have to place two orders.  First one, see how you go, and then work out from your usage how much it will take you to finish the layout.

 

I agree completely.

I would buy a large container. I doubt it will be anywhere near enough for 100m, but you will see how far it goes.

[Siberian Snooper]

Depending on your era, then ash is likely to be the ballast for sidings and non running lines.

 

 

[Will Hay]

I see, okay, thank you all.

Buying, trying  and calculating makes sense, I guess with the Woodland Scenic 'shakers' I'm certainly going to need more than one cannister.

 

It's Hornby track by the way.

 

I don't have an 'era' as such, this is my first and last attempt at modelling a railway and I'm looking for realism rather than 100% accuracy.

Realism insofar as someone unconnected with the hobby would look at it and think it as wonderful as I would all, rather than someone who identifies the wrong stone from the wrong quarry in the wrong decade.

 

If I was forced to pick one, I'd lean towards the 1970's, predominantly flush with diesels, a few steam engines and a few newer locomotives that have come in via a De Lorean.

 

My 11' x 9' is mostly track, apart from my plans of a few grassed areas, track ballast [obviously] and a level crossing leading to car parking and station access.

 

Not disimilar to the attached, but now with a multitude of changes to where the sheds are shown [three o' clock], along with a further two stations added [six o' clock].

I'm also intending to lose a small track length [168mm, from memory] from each side to bring it in and add hills to the perimeter.

All only plans, of course, knowing me it'll change.

 

Thanks again.

Edited May 25, 2020 by Will Hay
Typo corrected

[woodyfox]

Try chinchilla sand from a pet shop. You get about 1.5 kg for £3 or so. It's grain size is right for 4mm scale track and it has enough weight not to float away when glueing. As a bonus, it's the right colour and shade for Meldon Quarry ballast which is/was used fairly widely across the SR and WR of BR etc...

[Guest Half-full]

9 hours ago, Will Hay said:

I see, okay, thank you all.

Buying, trying  and calculating makes sense, I guess with the Woodland Scenic 'shakers' I'm certainly going to need more than one cannister.

 

It's Hornby track by the way.

 

I don't have an 'era' as such, this is my first and last attempt at modelling a railway and I'm looking for realism rather than 100% accuracy.

Realism insofar as someone unconnected with the hobby would look at it and think it as wonderful as I would all, rather than someone who identifies the wrong stone from the wrong quarry in the wrong decade.

 

If I was forced to pick one, I'd lean towards the 1970's, predominantly flush with diesels, a few steam engines and a few newer locomotives that have come in via a De Lorean.

 

My 11' x 9' is mostly track, apart from my plans of a few grassed areas, track ballast [obviously] and a level crossing leading to car parking and station access.

 

Not disimilar to the attached, but now with a multitude of changes to where the sheds are shown [three o' clock], along with a further two stations added [six o' clock].

I'm also intending to lose a small track length [168mm, from memory] from each side to bring it in and add hills to the perimeter.

All only plans, of course, knowing me it'll change.

 

Thanks again.

Quite an ambitious plan, I hope you have fun building and operating it.

 

A note of caution though, I see there are first radius curves on the plan, most stock release over the past couple of decades wont go round these easy, you may find you get a lot of derailments.

[Il Grifone]

Real stone ballast is between two and four inches long, so I would agree with the suggestion of N gauge as the commercial product tends to be overscale.

I must investigate the Chinchilla sand. I have some grey material (aquarium gravel IIRC) bought from Lidl many years ago, but it is a bit large and requires the use of a sieve.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Il Grifone

[Dungrange]

9 hours ago, Will Hay said:

It's Hornby track by the way.

 

I don't have an 'era' as such, this is my first and last attempt at modelling a railway and I'm looking for realism rather than 100% accuracy.

 

Your lack of a specific era isn't an issue, but the style and methods of ballasting has changed over the years.  It's not unusual for ballast to be on top of sleepers these days, but in the past, the tops of the sleepers were usually more obvious and the top of the ballast may have been below the tops of the sleepers, particularly off the mainline in yards and the like.  You'd need more ballast to achieve a more modern, covered sleeper, look than further back in time.

 

The sleeper depth on Hornby track is like Peco, which is thicker than some other brands of track.  One thing that hasn't been highlighted is whether or not you intend to use track underlay.  If the track is fixed directly to the baseboard, then you'll use less ballast than if you use an underlay, as you will probably use extra ballast to create the 'shoulder'.  How much extra will depend on the thickness of the underlay.

 

The other variable in deciding how much you need, is your technique for ballasting: some ballast won't stick when you glue it down.  Do you recover that for reuse or is it tipped on the floor, vacuumed up and wasted?

[Will Hay]

5 hours ago, Half-full said:

Quite an ambitious plan, I hope you have fun building and operating it.

 

A note of caution though, I see there are first radius curves on the plan, most stock release over the past couple of decades wont go round these easy, you may find you get a lot of derailments.

 

The three first radius curves you see were added for the sake of adding another line, they've not been used, there's no R1 track on it at all, I successfully incorporated a number of two and three rad curves on this length, along with some very short 22.5deg sections, and other than a few small R606 R2 curves to accommodate the late addition of stations five and six I'm still waiting to arrive, all is up and running 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Will Hay
Typo and photos

[woodyfox]

On 26/05/2020 at 09:17, Il Grifone said:

Real stone ballast is between two and four inches long, so I would agree with the suggestion of N gauge as the commercial product tends to be overscale.

I must investigate the Chinchilla sand. I have some grey material (aquarium gravel IIRC) bought from Lidl many years ago, but it is a bit large and requires the use of a sieve.

 

Here's the link. https://www.petsathome.com/shop/en/pets/bathing-dust-for-chinchillas-3kg

I have some laid with Peco O Gauge track. I'll pop an image on later.

 

Cheers.

[woodyfox]

And here's chinchilla sand laid with Peco o gauge track:

[F-UnitMad]

On 26/05/2020 at 14:04, Will Hay said:

 

The three first radius curves you see were added for the sake of adding another line, they've not been used, there's no R1 track on it at all, I successfully incorporated a number of two and three rad curves on this length, along with some very short 22.5deg sections, and other than a few small R606 R2 curves to accommodate the late addition of stations five and six I'm still waiting to arrive, all is up and running 

Looking at those photos, I wouldn't bother using the traditional methods of ballasting, especially as the baseboard surface looks like contiboard. There's so much track I'd just buy some rolls of this:-

https://www.modelscenerysupplies.co.uk/brands/javis/ballast-underlay-mat-javis-jxgu

Jarvis ballast sheets. Glue them down & lay the track on top - sorted, and back to playing trains.

[Will Hay]

14 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

Looking at those photos, I wouldn't bother using the traditional methods of ballasting, especially as the baseboard surface looks like contiboard. There's so much track I'd just buy some rolls of this:-

https://www.modelscenerysupplies.co.uk/brands/javis/ballast-underlay-mat-javis-jxgu

Jarvis ballast sheets. Glue them down & lay the track on top - sorted, and back to playing trains.

 

Many thanks.

Great minds think alike.

Since last dropping in here I'm considering using roofing felt.

I have some in the garage and I'm surprised, firstly, how flexible it is and secondly, how little it 'sheds' its surface.

 

I'm going to do a mock up with a length of track and see how static grass looks applied on top.

 

I guess I can combine this with some ballast?

 

I'm also considering reducing the fiddle area and siding to enable a little more modelling.

 

The truth is, the more I test the layout the more I think I'd prefer more movement than shunting etc.

 

Any thoughts on the roofing material?

It's certainly preferable to permanently ballasting the track, especially as this is my first ever layout, not to mention never having had trains/locomotives before.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Will Hay
Typo

[Will Hay]

Oh, and it's hardwood ply with a white primer, not contriboard.

[Sturminster_Newton]

Natural stone will also weigh an awful lot especially when laid on fairly generously.

 

As for the layout make sure you have no track further than you can reach a max of 2'9" (other measurement systems are available) from one side to the other UNLESS you can get to both sides.

 

Laying/relaying/re-railing/working accurately anything close to your maximum reach is an utter pain.