Chandwell - N Gauge 1990s city viaduct

[Chandwell]

On 25/10/2021 at 11:50, Angliacan said:

Michael

 

I've been checking the online rescourse about the Railways of West Riding. So to give you ideas of how much railway was built and how much is still around. Adolphus St Goods Station is Bradford is seperate to the passenger at Exchange.

 

Ian

 

Hello Ian! Thank you so very much for your fantastic and very helpful couple of messages; especially the pictures. (I am pleased to say I can place many of them!). This is a truly inspiring read and has given me a lot of ideas, and has made me more confident in the direction I am taking my layout. I live near the old Burley Junction, so I walk the dog down the old Burley to Otley line almost daily. I've tried to read as much as I can about the old railways of the West Riding, and it was really special to see your own photos.

 

I think I am settling on modelling the impression that a separate 2-track spur ran off from the station across the back of the layout. I'm going to model it without the bridge in place (maybe it was taken down like the one over Brook Street in Ilkley was) and with a concrete indoor market like Shipley's across the road from it. But I think you're right when you suggest I should model some of the rest of it still in place. You can still see in Ilkley now where the modern buildings and car park have filled the gap that the old viaduct left. In Chandwell maybe they've not pulled it all down yet...?

 

Your example of Adolphus Street is all I need I think to feel more confident that I've not made the station at Chandwell too unrealistic, and there is always a story to be told when we're looking at back story.

 

Thanks again - I really appreciate the effort you went to to help inspire me with Chandwell.

 

Michael.

[Angliacan]

Hi Michael

Now the latest You Tube video is up I've been looking at the Midland Signal Boxes, the were Midlands ones on both Airedale, Wharfedale and Settle & Carlisle Lines. I found by goggling and looking in various one of boxes at Shipley which had many of the feature which were inportant. Step up from platfrom many photos taken from road overbridge so looking down on Signal Box so able to measure height, steps up from platformThen going through my own photos I remembered the Signal Boxes at Bolton Abbey. Researching it further one with a overhang was from Guisieley on the Wharfedale Line.

 

https://www.embsayboltonabbeyrailway.org.uk/oldsite/signalli.html

Here it is at Bolton Abbey

 

 

To give some ideas of how also i think that the final colour scheme which would cover the period Chandwell is set.

 

Also here my flicker album of various locos for haulage in my pre digtal photo period. There might be some feature in the scene which cover the period before the layout.

 

 

 

Ian

Edited November 13, 2021 by Angliacan
correcting spelling & grammer

[Chandwell]

Thank you Ian - this is really helpful. The box is much yellower than I would have imagined it; I'm quite surprised by that.

 

I can't believe that after all the research I did, and when I decided on a "double overhang", that there was such a perfect example so close to me. That Bolton Abbey box is less than 8 miles from my house, and I've actually visited several times. I simply never really paid attention to the box. AND there's a perfect picture of it in my "Otley & Ilkley Joint Railway" book, standing in the vee of tracks at Guiseley. 

 

I think that before I make the box, I will take a trip over to Bolton Abbey and take a really good look. They may even let me measure, or take a look inside if I ask!

 

Thank you for the link to your Flickr album - there is a lot of inspiration there. Happy times!

 

Michael.

 

[AY Mod]

1 hour ago, Chandwell said:

The box is much yellower than I would have imagined it; I'm quite surprised by that.

 

As it is now the box is in Midland primrose rather than BR(M) cream. 

[Angliacan]

Michael

 

Just to turn the clock back at Chandwell, the start of Modern Traction, 1903 NER Autocar at Bolton Abbey Station. Well actual September 2021. Things have come foward a long way in 90 years to Chandwell in 1993. Was thinking about pub names as pubs near railway staion are sometimes the Station or Station Hotel or the railway  company like the Midland or North Eastern.

Ian

Edited November 18, 2021 by Angliacan

[Angliacan]

Michael

 

You Tube has recommend me this West Yorkshire Video of photos British Rail from the 1970's included at the end are colour photos of 2 of signal boxes at Shipley. I'm liking the lastest video the ideas for the visable rear of Market St are good, we tend to model the shop fronts, rather the back but from a railway vantage point we see all acpects of the views.

 

 

Ian

[Angliacan]

Michael

These two video have turned up on my YouTube feed as Forgotten Stations  Bradford Exchange / Interchange & Adolphus Street. So Bradford had 3 passenger Terminal now only 2. So there the idea that Chandwell had 2 now only 1. 

 

Ian

[Ben B]

Just caught up on this thread- really interesting, and some lovely creative modelling.  It's been fun spotting the inspirations too, and recognising the real-life influences!

 

Are you going to have steam excursions too, to replicate Bradford Forster Square back in the 80's/90's (before electrification rendered the station too busy), when there were semi-regular trains with the likes of "Scotsman" or "City of Wells" starting from there, to head up the S&C?

[Angliacan]

Michael as your latest Youtube video is up. Market Street blending into The Royal Scot Hotel is looking good. Here a few more West Yorkshire Pacers / Sprinters into the early 2000's.

[Chandwell]

I have started to build the back of a low-relief commercial street that runs from behind the Royal Scot hotel, down the hill, towards High Street underneath track level near the station throat.

 

 

This first building was interesting because I decided to use forced perspective to make it look like the street curved behind the hotel. 

 

 

I only had a tiny space of 40mm long to fit in this effect, so the building, its windows, and all the signage is all cut at an unusual shape to follow the vanishing point lines of the perspective. Here's a look from above to show what I mean:

 

 

I experimented by adding a figure to one of the windows. This is juts a 11.8mm tall photo of a man on a black background, and it looks pretty ghostly:

 

 

I'm pretty pleased with how it's coming together. Here are some more pictures:

 

 

 

 

[Angliacan]

Chandell into the 2020's after a Station rebuild slight change of location and electfication. Not quite but the latest Bradford Foster Sq Station with a line up of Northern 333's. 3 terminus platforms.

Ian

[Chandwell]

It’s time for my annual Top 20 look at my layout. Hope you enjoy. 
 

 

[Angliacan]

Michael

Next video is great, about the double track viaduct to the long closed Goods Yard in Chandwell. Question would the railway have built a double track for a freight only viaduct when a single track one would have been cheaper, unless the Goods Warehouses & Yard area was the older passenger Station like Aldolphus St in Bradford so double track might have been the order of the day. Also if the point to go from the single track to double track was at the end of section modelled viaduct this could mean the double track starting on the removed plate girder bridge section and then any remaining sections disused lengths of viaduct  could be double track. Also freight only lines may have been built to a tighter loading gauge needing a slightly narrower trackbed than a passenger section. 

 

Question was there in Chandwell history had any a section of this viaduct which lead to some Coal Drops with a street level Coal Yard  with the wagons at the viaduct height, and the yard below.  This might have been the area which was re developed in the late 1960 early 1970's say for the covered market or shopping arcade  in a rather ugly bruterlist even Eastern Block style contrete building. These sort of 1960/70 stuctures tended to be becoming rather run down in by the late 1980's early 1990's with no money to redevelop them untill the early 2000's.

 

The North Eastern Railway had Coal Drops in many of it Goods Yards, I know both Otley & Pool in Wharfedale did. This may have gone back to the early days of the railways in the North East  with Chaldron wagons for coal traffic . Some of these Chaldron Wagon type lasted into NCB days on many North Eastern Colliery Internal Railway Networks.

 

Sorry if this has given you some new questions or rabbit holes to jump into. Thinking aloud in the early 1990's in West Yorkshire the local authorities were look into many urban regeneration idea some which were good or have stood the test of like Eureka in Halifax or rather short lived like Transperience at Low Moor in Bradford. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transperience

 

If Chandwell was having such a regeneration project in 1993 might there be a urban wasteland,  a few rows or streets of nearly falling down back to back terraced house or a long closed mill building or complex, perhaps with a few construction vehicle surrounded with wooden graffti covered fences. Then there could be rather large billboard proclaiming Chandwell Metropoltian Councils great new idea which might be its wonder project or just one big white elephant only history will tell.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Angliacan

[davidparker172]

On 09/12/2021 at 18:09, Chandwell said:

I have started to build the back of a low-relief commercial street that runs from behind the Royal Scot hotel, down the hill, towards High Street underneath track level near the station throat.

 

 

This first building was interesting because I decided to use forced perspective to make it look like the street curved behind the hotel. 

 

 

I only had a tiny space of 40mm long to fit in this effect, so the building, its windows, and all the signage is all cut at an unusual shape to follow the vanishing point lines of the perspective. Here's a look from above to show what I mean:

 

 

I experimented by adding a figure to one of the windows. This is juts a 11.8mm tall photo of a man on a black background, and it looks pretty ghostly:

 

 

I'm pretty pleased with how it's coming together. Here are some more pictures:

 

 

 

 

Michael

This blows my mind everytime i watch one of your videos!!!

Great work and inspiring

I need to go through them all again

[Ben B]

This really is terrific work, the attention to detail is great!  Your layout probably occupies the best time period for (vaguely) modern image, but still with the interesting trappings of the steam-age like the ornate station... I was trying to imagine how it would look in the modern day, based on how Forster Square and Ilkley etc look now.  Electrification as per the Airedale/Wharfedale lines?  No canopies and probably rationalised to one platform, with the station building now a supermarket... or new station with the line cut-back to the far side of the viaduct which would be cheaper, and free up a city-centre plot for redevelopment? 

[Angliacan]

Micael

The Royal Scot Hotel article looks great in the latest BRM.

[Angliacan]

Michael

 

The ongoing You Tube videos on the rear of Market Street, is great it’s good to see how this developing. Your eye for detail is great. These copies of run down building backs are giving the atmosphere. Sometimes I feel it how I remember that era for late BR in a northern town, slightly down on its luck, avoiding those sort of back streets, or view them from the safety of a train.. Those back street could be any where in urban North from West Cumbria, Northumbria, Tyneside, Wearside, County Durham, Lancashire Merseyside, Manchester and West & South Yorkshire, during the late 1980’s early 1990’s. Looking at the latest building it got me thinking of the buildings on Mercury Row Otley, between Newmarket & Kirkgate, the mixture of older and more modern ones. 

 

Ian 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Angliacan

[Angliacan]

Michael

The latest part of Market Street is  run down and just right for the atmoshere you're trying to convay. The idea of the rather brutal modern building is great, but not sure if with the nearby Methodist Church such Night Club would have been allowed by planners, a pub maybee, depends how effect them teetotal Methodist are with blocking a planning or  lisensing application. After all orginaly Sir Titus Salt never had a Public House or Off Lisense in Saltaire, as tht demon drink was the ruin of the working classes.

 

I agree a modern building fitting  well into Market Street, it would give a bit of difference it either replacing a building been bombed during the World War 2, with boring brick commercail building, or like said in You Tube video a building Damage fire. Either way it would be a rather plan back with some sort of loading area/ If either was slightly lower roof line  then the taller upfloors frontage of the  building across Market Street. If the are any gaps or alleys between Market Street structure the other side of Market Street might also be glimpsed.   

 

You have to have some rather brutailist modern building somewhere as they seem to be all the rage in the 1960/1970's. It was a way of those modern foward think urban northern Labour Councils showing a nod the future also looking eastwards to a Eastern Block style, fit for everyone.  So a building with ideas looking  to the Eastern Block as a US Sports Bar a bit of a contrdection. After all US Sports became all the rage and rather trendy to the youth in the early 1990's, Amercain Football Teams had a real grass roots growth in the late 80's early 90's. I used to go and watch the Leeds Cougars at Bramely RL Ground on a Sunday afternoon in mid 1980's.  

 

I really like how Crandwell is coming on. It feels familiar with that northern grit, slightly down on it luck that era had. You also manage to get the level of detail usual found in OO and above.

 

After post this it lead me to think about the shopping centre I remember around West Yorshire in the  1980's, This has lead me into another rabbit hole.  I remember the Arndale Centre in Bradford & Merion Centre in Leeds. These date from the 1960's in a Brutailist style. From memory these were the most modern in the area until the more North American style Mall of The Ridings Wakefield opened.  With later out of town complex like Metrocentre & Meadowhall.

Edited February 20, 2022 by Angliacan

[Mark Pelham]

Hi Michael,

 

I like the new rather unattractive, mundane, drab eyesore of a night club - it breaks up from the stylings of the other buildings adding variety, and also breaking the roof line. Would it work to build a slightly under-scale 'ultra-low relief' building for the opposite side of the street to avoid the sudden increase in visible sky? It might be a way to keep the variety of style in that location without it overly standing out.

 

Just a thought...

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[Angliacan]

Michael

 

I'm really liking the way the back of Market Street is developing the 1960's buildings from Dale St Bradford the most recent one  looks a bit like a larger one on Mercury Row Otley. It does really fit in with Pockets as both are like 1960's redevelopment of replacing a couple of Victorian buildings either due to wartime bomb or fire damage or an older Music Hall or Bingo Hall which was unsafe. Looking at the  subject of a possible Mosque or other places of worship in Chandwell following history in Bradford, Kirkless or  Halifax , which could be an image on the backscene, or a model form many older Mosque were 1st in convert buildings including  church or halls or shop, later in new builds. But these might have been in the districts around the city or town centre.  https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/13836029.history-of-islam-in-bradford-explored-in-new-book/

 

That asks the question is the planned  Methodist Church on Market St, is this the Chandwell Central Methodist Church, or is it closed awaiting redevelopment or still a place of worship but for a different Religious Group.

 

I have been looking at various video from around the old Leeds Central Station closed in 1967, it viaducts still remain, but the site of the Station was a large Royal Mail Building from Mid 1970's untill early 2000's. There might be some idea which Chandwell followed. Then some You Tube Videos of Leeds Station in the 1990's came up.

 

 

 

 

I hope this gives some more ideas but also that you are very much on the right track as it wer with Chandwell.

Ian

Edited March 15, 2022 by Angliacan

[Angliacan]

Michael

Really liking how the back of Market St, Chandwell is developing, the latest installment, the building from Liam at Deansgate really fit into the street. It shows it well worth loking to the prototype and real world examples to see how they fit and interact. I really struggle at times with the N gauge it done to such eye to detail you could be mistaken for thinking Chandwell is a 4mm scale layout.

Ian

[Chandwell]

It has been ages since I posted an update on this thread, so thought I'd pop by and add some photos. The back of Market Street is now finished. I've added a signal box inspired by the one that stood at Guiseley, scratch built from card, sticky labels, and cheesecake packaging, as usual. And I've just completed a scratch-built curved hotel based on the Crescent in Ilkley.

 

Class 150 comes into Platform 4 behind the signal box, viewed over the rooftop of the Earl Chandfield hotel:

 

While the morning InterCity service to Plymouth pulls out of Platform 1, seen from just beside the hotel:

 

The same scene viewed from the roof of the department store on the other side of High Street:

 

Some views of the front and back of the hotel:

 

 

[TomJ]

Simply superb - and as a nearby resident the hotel is instantly recognisable 

[simonmcp]

I'd be really happy if I could get to that standard in O Gauge never mind N Gauge. A superb signal box and the hotel is just amazing.

[Chris M]

Congratulations on your article in BRM; it makes a good read. Also well done for building such a great N gauge layout. I say this even though you have a long way to go still. There are a number of great N gauge layouts around at the moment which really show what can be done in that scale and yours is most definitely one of them.  One of the  things you say in your article is that there is no "ground level" at Chandwell.  All too many times some excellent modelling is ruined by the fact that everything has so obviously just been planted on a flat baseboard. Chandwell is a prime example how not laying everything on a flat baseboard makes a much more realistic model.