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RevolutioN Trains looking for EOI for a BR Class 89 in N gauge


MGR Hooper!
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2 hours ago, MatP said:

Brilliant news - I remember seeing this loco at Crewe and Stafford in the 80's, though never at my 'home' station, Lichfield TV. I've expressed an interest in the 'original' liveried version.

 

I hope somebody with deep pockets (i.e. not me) and sufficient courage to renumber a RevolutioN 89 builds a layout set on the WCML (or ECML) c.1990 or later, set in an alternative universe where the Class 89 had been approved and a whole fleet of them built. 

 

89022 with a 12-coach Up train would pass 89017 in the loop at LTV with the morning direct service to London (picking up a mutinous-looking party from Lichfield Cathedral School), and then, shortly afterwards, 89031 would be seen heading north with a Speedlink trunk freight...

 

Time to take out a second mortgage on the cat?

 

Mat P

 

Wasn't 89031 renumbered to 89131 when it's ETH was isolated, and it was repainted into Railfreight General livery? :D

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1 hour ago, Stuey said:

 

Wasn't 89031 renumbered to 89131 when it's ETH was isolated, and it was repainted into Railfreight General livery? :D

 

Yep, good point - I think that was at the same time as they isolated its TDM system, meaning it could no longer work with the cab-end-like-an-89 driving van trailers (designated Mk3-BS).

 

Slightly more seriously speaking, the Class 89 appeals to me (a) as an underdog and (b) because it was the basis of an idea to make WCML trains longer and (hopefully) cheaper rather than any faster.

 

Mat 

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  • 1 month later...
On 27/05/2020 at 14:43, Ben A said:

 

Hello all,

 

Thanks to anyone who’s expressed an interest so far.  To say we are surprised at the uptake is an understatement - but it’s early days!
 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

 

On 27/05/2020 at 23:44, red death said:

 

Fortunately things are looking pretty positive - we got a third of the expressions of interest we'd need for it to go ahead in 24 hours and that is without any real opportunity to get it fully out to as wide an audience as possible!

 

Cheers Mike

 

Any update of the EOI and how far we have reached?

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Hello all,

 

We are giving the 89 and Caroline until July 31st to succeed or fail.  This gives the project time to be featured in the magazines and the N Gauge Journal, but means we won’t have either project hanging around indefinitely.

 

If you know anyone who might want one please let them know.  We aren’t looking for any financial commitment so there is no point in delaying.

 

At the moment neither has reached the minimum threshold, but I think the 89 is closer.  However my view is that both of these are *very* marginal models in N, and while I would love us to be able to offer both it is quite possible neither will make the cut.  

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

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1 hour ago, Ben A said:

 

Hello all,

 

We are giving the 89 and Caroline until July 31st to succeed or fail.  This gives the project time to be featured in the magazines and the N Gauge Journal, but means we won’t have either project hanging around indefinitely.

 

If you know anyone who might want one please let them know.  We aren’t looking for any financial commitment so there is no point in delaying.

 

At the moment neither has reached the minimum threshold, but I think the 89 is closer.  However my view is that both of these are *very* marginal models in N, and while I would love us to be able to offer both it is quite possible neither will make the cut.  

 

cheers

 

Ben A.


If it gets closer, will you consider extending the deadline by a month?

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2 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:


If it gets closer, will you consider extending the deadline by a month?

 

Hi there,

 

No, otherwise it wouldn’t be a deadline!!  Honestly, with so many projects on the go right now, and plenty of other ideas for the next 12 months, this one has to force its way into the programme.  Much as we’d love it!

 

I am hoping that the news that it’s returning to mainline use on charter trains - so can, plausibly, end up on any electrified route - will give it a boost.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

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9 hours ago, Ben A said:

 

Hi there,

 

I am hoping that the news that it’s returning to mainline use on charter trains - so can, plausibly, end up on any electrified route - will give it a boost.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.


Indeed, but even the real Class 89 is just making the headlines as it nears completion, so will a week be enough?

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I have an expression down for both a single 89 and Caroline. If it wasn't for the biggest down turn in recent years I may have been happy to get two (in different liveries). Perhaps bump them down to next year?

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8 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:


Indeed, but even the real Class 89 is just making the headlines as it nears completion, so will a week be enough?

 

I agree. Given that this news has come relatively late in the day, I would have thought it warranted a small extension for it to spread, sink in, and inspire a few more modellers.

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20 hours ago, Ben A said:

 

Hi there,

 

No, otherwise it wouldn’t be a deadline!!  Honestly, with so many projects on the go right now, and plenty of other ideas for the next 12 months, this one has to force its way into the programme.  Much as we’d love it!

 

I am hoping that the news that it’s returning to mainline use on charter trains - so can, plausibly, end up on any electrified route - will give it a boost.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

I can certainly understand the reasoning, but I would offer the following observation.

I quickly registered my EOIs for both the Cl89 and Caroline in N, and although if either fail to make the numbers I might be disappointed I am sure there are others who might have greater feelings about the missed opportunity.

There is an excellent prompt in the current N Gauge Journal (Jul-Aug 4/20) which arrived today with a 4 page round-up of RevolutioN N projects and a back cover advert, but I do note that the news coverage in the 2 monthly magazines I get – Model Rail and Railway Modeller – seems to me a little bit lost.

In MR 275 (July) there is a heavy emphasis on these as OO announcements, with the N EOIs as brief bullet points at the end of both.

In RM (July) Caroline gets the same treatment without a bullet point to hopefully draw any attention to it, and I guess because it refers to Rails of Sheffield there is no mention at all about N Cl89 EOI that I can see.

I can’t help feeling that those N-gaugers who browse the monthlies for their main information sources, at least in these two cases, and are not NGS members or followers of the RMweb/NGF forums may not be aware because the OO emphasis might have meant they’ve glossed over these magazine news items altogether.

I don’t intend this as a criticism, just as an observation if the EOIs fail to reach sufficient levels.

 

Regards, Gerry.

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I have shared the link to the EOI in a couple of places and told others to copy-paste it and share it elsehwere. Our own team members have also shared links. In all we've shared the link in at least 8 places that may be of some use. But as others have said, the news of the real Class 89 has come in a bit late.

No offence to CJM, but this is our only chance at getting a high spec and accurate Class 89 in N gauge at a price many can afford. I think if it doesn't make the cut, it will be a missed opportunity for Revolution.

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But how long do you give it before saying no more, end of August, end of the year......

 

Although

 

I have just skimmed through the last few Rail Express Modeller and I cant even see a single mention of either the class 89 or Hastings car in N gauge. Not sure if it would make any real difference though - just an observation. 

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55 minutes ago, steve1023 said:

But how long do you give it before saying no more, end of August, end of the year......

 

Although

 

I have just skimmed through the last few Rail Express Modeller and I cant even see a single mention of either the class 89 or Hastings car in N gauge. Not sure if it would make any real difference though - just an observation. 


This was announced on 26th May, that's just under two months ago. IMHO I think 2 months is too short a time period for an EOI for a Class 89. And if many people have come forward and said they've not seen any adverts in magazines, I think Revolution are letting go of a model that could've had some more interest.

I know they have a lot of projects in the pipeline, but if it were up to me, for such a locomotive, I'd have had the EOI up for 3-4 months.

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2 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

I know they have a lot of projects in the pipeline, but if it were up to me, for such a locomotive, I'd have had the EOI up for 3-4 months.

 

Personal opinion.

 

Revolution is no longer a company just starting with no presence in the hobby.

 

At this point they are known in the hobby and have a growing range of products.  A side effect of this is that they can no longer keep projects around for long periods of time in the hope that enough people will show interest.

 

While it is unfortunate for those who may want these particular models 2 months is a long time for people to express interest - if the interest isn't there it is unlikely it will magically change with another month or 2.  Better instead to move on to the next potential projects.

 

And while not related to Revolution, there have been far too many crowd funding / EOI announcements from other suppliers that have their deadlines constantly extended in the past - at some point that does more harm to everyone than benefit as customers learn deadlines are meaningless.

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That is a lesson we've learnt from previous expressions of interest ie you can leave expressions of interest open too long. We're asking for interest at this stage not deposits. 

 

We completely understand that people might be wary given the coronavirus situation, but we won't be putting everything on sale at once! 

 

Like others said we'd rather give people clarity on what is happening than for projects to drag on.

 

Cheers Mike

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6 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

Personal opinion.

 

Revolution is no longer a company just starting with no presence in the hobby.

 

At this point they are known in the hobby and have a growing range of products.  A side effect of this is that they can no longer keep projects around for long periods of time in the hope that enough people will show interest.

 

While it is unfortunate for those who may want these particular models 2 months is a long time for people to express interest - if the interest isn't there it is unlikely it will magically change with another month or 2.  Better instead to move on to the next potential projects.

 

And while not related to Revolution, there have been far too many crowd funding / EOI announcements from other suppliers that have their deadlines constantly extended in the past - at some point that does more harm to everyone than benefit as customers learn deadlines are meaningless.


Well let's agree to disagree. I personally think that 2 months isn't long enough when you factor in the current world situation where you have to rely mainly on print and online ads for getting the word out and adding to that, like many others have said, there's been little or no proper ads for the Class 89 in the print media.

TBH even the homepage on their website shows precious little information on their various new projects.

 

You might enjoy an excellent reputation amongst the modelling community and I regard Revolution as one of the best, but that still doesn't mean everyone knows you and the moment you announce something, everyone will hear about it. 5 people have responded to my posts online about it saying they were never aware.

Anyway...it is what it is! I hope the project succeeds.

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I have just signed up for a GNER Class 89. I suppose that because this is piggybacking on the Accurascale 00 gauge model, it needs to move in step with it to gain “scale of project” benefits. Hopefully in a week’s time we will know whether it is a runner.

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Hi Gang,

 

As I put an EOI in for a Swallow livery plus the latest repaint, it would seem that instead of two, my vote may be downgraded to one from two....so I think I may have to pop another EOI in for a GNER...hopefully with silver grey lettering?

 

Later,

Stu from EGDL.

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Out of curiosity here, I am presuming the target figure for EOI is based on selling X units at a specific cost to at least cover the costs? On the chance it fails is there potenmtial to look at the price to see if all those interested would cover the cost increase to get the model produced

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2 hours ago, Ed-farms said:

Out of curiosity here, I am presuming the target figure for EOI is based on selling X units at a specific cost to at least cover the costs? On the chance it fails is there potenmtial to look at the price to see if all those interested would cover the cost increase to get the model produced


Have to agree with that. 2 months IMHO is far too short for EOIs, I'd happily pay 10-20 quid more if it helps cross the line.

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I think that the timescale for the EOI could well be kept short to focus minds on whether it is a wanted model or not. Revolution have plenty of projects to occupy their time.  The way I see it, there is a window of opportunity to run the N version alongside the 00 gauge version which disappears if there is no commitment from Revolution. Over the past 5 years or so I suspect they have acquired a good knowledge of the rate at which orders come in over the EOI, early bird, pre-order cycle based on their channels of communication. I am sure they are not expecting the EOIs to cover 100% of a production run, but rather to give them confidence to spend time on the Class 89 rather than something else.  The confidence they need will be derived from the number of EOIs, based on their expectation that the final orders will meet the production number needed for viability (or not). I would like an 89 but there needs to be enough takers at this EOI/no money spent moment if I am going to get one from Revolution.

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So for fun I followed the link in the OO Caroline topic and did some counting.

 

Revolution (which I believe is a 2 person operation - albeit with lots of contracted help but a lot of the work and approvals/decisions still comes down to the 2) has the following currently in progress:

 

In production (so hands off until arrival, at which point lots of work shipping out) - 5 items

 

Works in progress - (EOI, CAD, samples, paint diagrams, etc) :

  • O - 1
  • 4mm - 3
  • 2mm - 10
  • plus the EOI in 2mm for Caroline & Class 89
  • plus the ongoing (and perhaps a lesson) EOI APT-E since September 2017
  • EOI for Pendolino second run starting

That is a lot of work for a small company - and that only includes the public stuff.  They have indicated that there is other stuff in the works, and realistically with that workload then a never-ending EOI deadline simply means something else would need to get dropped (otherwise you could end up with too many things meeting thresholds all at once, or perhaps more likely too many items splitting people's potential budgets so nothing ever reaches the minimums).

 

 

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3 hours ago, mdvle said:

So for fun I followed the link in the OO Caroline topic and did some counting.

 

<snipped>

 

...a never-ending EOI deadline simply means something else would need to get dropped (otherwise you could end up with too many things meeting thresholds all at once, or perhaps more likely too many items splitting people's potential budgets so nothing ever reaches the minimums).

 

 

 

Hi there,

 

I’d just add that In theory EOIs shouldn’t worry people financially as we aren’t asking for a financial commitment, and generally we do try to space products out.  We also offer differential pricing (EarlyBird, then Pre-Order, then Final MSRP) to help those on a budget.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

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On 01/08/2020 at 08:19, Ben A said:

 

Hi there,

 

I’d just add that In theory EOIs shouldn’t worry people financially as we aren’t asking for a financial commitment, and generally we do try to space products out.  We also offer differential pricing (EarlyBird, then Pre-Order, then Final MSRP) to help those on a budget.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Morning Ben,

I agree with your comments. The pricing structure is certainly reasonable and rewards those who made an early definitive commitment. Those that come on board later still benefit from the 'early birds' as they too have access a great model.

Since the EOI dates have passed for the N scale 89 and Caroline coach can you say if either target has been reached? If not can you tell us how far short you are on numbers?

If these are not mow going into production the info would help as I can divert funds into some of your other projects.

Cheers

Duncan

 

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