Freelance terminus inspired by the railways of South Hampshire.

[Peter Lord]

I am working on a project for a small layout based on the Southern Railway in the 1920s and 1930s and set somewhere (fictional) in South Hampshire. I am a first-time poster and would be very grateful for any feedback! 

 

Background.

Having grown up on the Solent, there were three railways in the vicinity: the Isle of Wight Railway, the Lee-on-Solent branch and the Hayling Island branch. All vanished decades before I was born! These three railways have their individual features but also share some common features and a "feel" which resonates with me. My layout will emulate the "feel" of these three railways without being in any way a model of any of them. 

 

Specification.

1) The layout must fit within a 6'6"×2'6" area (no prizes for guessing where those dimensions came from!) although track(s) will extend off one end to allow attachment to a second module.

2) The layout should be a small terminus because I like them, because they allow some interesting movements and because they only require one station throat!

3) It should use RTR 00 gauge stock and Peco trackwork. Stock to be mainly LBSC in Southern Railway (olive) livery with some SECR and LSWR items. The railways which inspire me ran small trains of short carriages hauled by tank engines. Terriers will appear as will the E4, the H class (yes, a bit out of its comfort zone but I like it) the 02 (if I can get hold of one in green) and the E1 (when it is produced).

4) Parallel working must be possible. 3 engine movements at a time would be good.

5) If at all possible it should be a junction where two lines converge to meet in the station. I am still scratching my head about this as it is a lot of pointwork to fit in and the platform roads can't be too short.

 

At this point, I can hear several of you shouting "Minories!" at your computer. This does not quite meet my specifications as it does not allow the locomotive to run round. I think I might be able to adapt that basic idea by a) adding a crossover for running around b) having the main line as a single track with a locomotive spur where the second main line would have been and c) turning the headshunt into a second branchline diverging bottom right.

 

Space is tight! My platforms don't need to be long but they have to be acceptable: enough room for four (or even five) four/six wheelers plus the crossover pointwork for the loco to run around.

 

If my primary/main branch has run around platforms, my secondary branch could represent an even smaller line where push/pull is used and locos don't need to be run around. This could have a shorter bay platform with the station building sat at the end. No footbridge needed!

 

Locos so far are Hornby's lovely new terrier -mainland version, H class and E4. I am eagerly awaiting the E1 which will have to be the island version (the only green one!) and I would love an 02 but the green ones seem to be rarer than rocking horse droppings! In the future I will probably acquire an island terrier (long bunker) but that is getting slightly profligate so I will resist the temptation as long as I can.

 

Coaching stock is a real problem; there is currently nothing RTR that fits the bill. I have Hattons' four/six wheelers on order but won't hold my breath. I also need some short bogie coaches. The courage to buy a couple of those lovely SECR birdcages and chop a third out of the middle eludes me!! I would happily build a kit but I know I could not do the paintwork justice. True to the three lines which provide inspiration, the only freight necessary would be coal.

 

So, what do people think? I know I have a lot of ideas but I would really appreciate input. I am already playing around with track but still have no exact plan. 

 

[john new]

No observations on your ideas; however, having built a layout on two old flush doors in the past (your size suggests the base is a door) you need to be very careful regarding the wiring underneath as it can be vulnerable. With hindsight this should have had some extra under board protection but it did survive.

 

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by john new
Punctuation corrected

[Alex TM]

Hi Peter,

 

Welcome to the weird and crazy world of RMWeb.

 

Interesting, and busy, spec for a layout design.  You'll find a few folk on here who have an interest in the same area, especially the Hayling branch,

 

John's point about wiring is an important one, however I wonder if a way round framing may be to see how the 'Mutton' layouts are done (these use shelves from a Swedish firm bent on total world domination).

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[Peter Lord]

Thank you both. I have never heard of Mutton layouts but will do some research. I will upload a picture later but I have already attached the door to a timber wallpaper table, thus providing folding legs! This also provides a little protection for wiring protruding below the board.

 

It is potentially a lot of trackwork which is slightly contrary to the feel I was aiming for. I have toyed with the idea of the secondary branch being completely stand-alone with no direct connection; this could produce a lovely visual effect (wedge-shaped platform perhaps) but would (I fear) be completely unbelievable to the observer. 

 

This is supposed to be a rural operation, antiquated even in its heyday (such was true of the railways of South Hampshire) so I am not looking to fill the space with track, have any industrial scene or mainline features like station pilots or similar.

 

Why the door? I decided in a fit of lockdown frustration to get on and remove the nasty flat white doors which some tasteless previous owner had fitted and replace them with proper solid panelled ones. The upshot was a pile of flat doors and the tip is still closed...

[Harlequin]

Hi Peter,

What are you thinking about a fiddle yard?

 

[JohnR]

Iain Rice did his version of Minories that might be worth looking at. His was the station at the other end - the suburban terminus. Even if its not exactly what you're looking for, it might give you some ideas.

 

[Peter Lord]

Thank you John. That is certainly interesting. Still a slightly more developed area than I was envisaging but definitely food for thought. I definitely want the "destination" end terminus rather than the suburban one. Think Lee-on-Solent or a smaller version of Ventnor or one of the other island terminii.

 

No fiddle yard on the main board Harlequin; the idea is that a second module can be attached (not to be constructed in a hurry) which will provide somewhere for trains to go.

 

Does anybody know of any examples of stations shared between two lines with no connection? Even Bodmin and Smallbrook have a physical connection if memory serves.

[john new]

35 minutes ago, Peter Lord said:

Thank you John. That is certainly interesting. Still a slightly more developed area than I was envisaging but definitely food for thought. I definitely want the "destination" end terminus rather than the suburban one. Think Lee-on-Solent or a smaller version of Ventnor or one of the other island terminii.

 

No fiddle yard on the main board Harlequin; the idea is that a second module can be attached (not to be constructed in a hurry) which will provide somewhere for trains to go.

 

Does anybody know of any examples of stations shared between two lines with no connection? Even Bodmin and Smallbrook have a physical connection if memory serves.

I think there is one in Merseyside or on the Wirral. Two services arriving from opposite ends but unlinked these days. However, the reason is a modern one, IIRC it was an electrification issue.

[Nearholmer]

That Rice plan has a lot going for it, and would benefit from being spread out a bit, to allow the siding to get a decent distance from the runaround, which your door would permit.

 

Given your locale, you might want to look at Ryde Pier Head station, which was, before falling from grace, a very intensively worked terminus on a naturally very restricted site. Oddly enough, it almost meets your "two railways" want too, in that the pier tramway terminated right alongside. No goods though, so maybe look to the other island termini.

 

 

 

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

8 minutes ago, JohnR said:

Iain Rice did his version of Minories that might be worth looking at. His was the station at the other end - the suburban terminus. Even if its not exactly what you're looking for, it might give you some ideas.

 

 

I always wonder what Iain Rice's intention was with regard to departing freight trains. Do they shunt along the Down before reversing into the station before departure? Or is there a second crossover beyond the bridge (New Brighton)? Of course, 6'6 is always going to difficult with double track. It would make all the difference to have 8' in length.

56 minutes ago, Peter Lord said:

 

 

Does anybody know of any examples of stations shared between two lines with no connection? Even Bodmin and Smallbrook have a physical connection if memory serves.

 

I suppose that Ealing Broadway meets this brief with what was three stations effectively merged into one. Even here, I think that there are connections via sidings between the two LUL lines.

 

There were various locations with High Level and Low Level platforms, sometimes like Tamworth or Builth with just a connection for freight.

[Joseph_Pestell]

24 minutes ago, john new said:

I think there is one in Merseyside or on the Wirral. Two services arriving from opposite ends but unlinked these days. However, the reason is a modern one, IIRC it was an electrification issue.

 

Yes, indeed. Ormskirk.

 

Going back a long time in history, Gospel Oak.

[Zomboid]

Kirkby is the same as Ormskirk I think. And there's only one platform at Southport which is accessible from both Liverpool and Preston. That kind of thing is quite common though - Inverness and Brighton immediaetly come to mind as similar.

 

No rail connection at Smallbrook though. Nor Cholsey - I wouldn't be especially shocked if joint NR/ Heritage stations without rail connections were more common than those with.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Zomboid

[Peter Lord]

Thank you Nearholmer.  Yes, I had thought of that, I think my layout will take inspiration from all of the places mentioned.  Hopefully an observer will take a look at the stock and small simple station and realise that they are looking at a Solent area layout! The secondary branch (no mainline here) is not absolutely essential but I would really like to fit it in; a push/pull train could come and go without interfering with the main station business. I don't necessarily want coal traffic; it is more that coal would be the limit of any goods traffic.

[Nearholmer]

A thought: what about making it the junction for a branch, rather than the outer terminus?

 

Someone else on here is building the Hayling Branch bay/junction at Havant in N, which is a near-ideal configuration, and there are other sources of inspiration available.

 

You don't have to model more of the "main" than enough to let you know its there, not even the actual junction point-work......... thinking about it, hasn't Mr Rice published a plan for something like this too?

 

The advantage of this is that it allows for the odd "too big for the branch" loco to appear on stage.

 

[Harlequin]

Quick sketch idea:

 

I tried to make it simple, loose and a bit frayed round the edges.

• There's a connection from branch to main line for operational interest.
• The high release crossover also makes life interesting and a bit more varied.
• Run round loop is completed in the fiddle yard so that you can have 4-5 six wheelers and the platform is (plenty) long enough for them.
• Very deliberate separation of branch line and main line exits.
• Room for a bit of scenery beyond the buffer stops.
• Can't justify 3 simultaneous loco movements, though! Only 2...

 

Is this too simplified or is it deceptively simple?

Edited May 27, 2020 by Harlequin

[Peter Lord]

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

A thought: what about making it the junction for a branch, rather than the outer terminus?

 

Someone else on here is building the Hayling Branch bay/junction at Havant in N, which is a near-ideal configuration, and there are other sources of inspiration available.

 

You don't have to model more of the "main" than enough to let you know its there, not even the actual junction point-work......... thinking about it, hasn't Mr Rice published a plan for something like this too?

 

The advantage of this is that it allows for the odd "too big for the branch" loco to appear on stage.

 

I have already thought of this! In fact I did a few sketches before realising that the temptation to have trains running through the station would be too great and I would end up with a railway empire by accident.

 

I do see the appeal: tender locos and mainline bogie coaches could make a static appearance. In the end, I want to deliberately restrict myself to parochial operations.

[Peter Lord]

42 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Quick sketch idea:

 

I tried to make it simple but loose and a bit frayed round the edges.

• There's a connection from branch to main line for operational interest.
• The high release crossover also makes life interesting and a bit more varied.
• Run round loop is completed in the fiddle yard so that you can have 4-5 six wheelers and the platform is (plenty) long enough for them.
• Very deliberate separation of branch line and main line exits.
• Room for a bit of scenery beyond the buffer stops.
• Can't justify 3 simultaneous loco movements, though! Only 2...

 

Thank you very much for putting the time and thought into doing that. I have sketched something quite similar myself (pencil and paper method!) The differences to your design were a) no goods siding or loco shed b) the crossover slightly closer to the buffers c) the loop completes on scene with just enough room for the loco to complete the run around on the baseboard d) because of c I am struggling to work out how to fit the connection to the smaller branch! A double slip or a three-way point (depending on whether the crossover is facing or trailing) should just allow it all to fit...

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Harlequin said:

Quick sketch idea:

 

I tried to make it simple, loose and a bit frayed round the edges.

• There's a connection from branch to main line for operational interest.
• The high release crossover also makes life interesting and a bit more varied.
• Run round loop is completed in the fiddle yard so that you can have 4-5 six wheelers and the platform is (plenty) long enough for them.
• Very deliberate separation of branch line and main line exits.
• Room for a bit of scenery beyond the buffer stops.
• Can't justify 3 simultaneous loco movements, though! Only 2...

 

Is this too simplified or is it deceptively simple?

 

I can see 3! Branch train arrives or departs from bay. Passenger train arrives or departs in main platform. Goods shunts on loop, using off scene headshunt. I doubt, in real life, that 3 would ever happen together and if there is only one operator on a model railway with such short distances to run, driving 3 trains at once is a recipe for disaster!

[Nearholmer]

This all heading inexorably in the direction of Berrow and East Brent https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/131447-the-berrow-branch/

 

One way to justify the usually difficult to justify ‘twig off the branch’ in your context might be to make it serve some sort of Royal Navy facility, which rather messes-up the motor train idea I admit.

 

How about we add a RN branch to the topology of Bembridge? The siding now serves primarily as an exchange point, with the meagre coal traffic dealt with near the stops.

 

The dotted track is an alternative to the slip, but I think the slip is better.

 

Clearly the RN trains have authority to work within the station.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Nearholmer]

It has just occurred to me that the LSWR operates the Stokes Bay branch by reversal at Gosport, so there is almost a prototype in your area, if a slightly grand one for the back of a door.

[Alex TM]

Hi again Peter,

 

Sorry, but I should have included this link in my earlier post; it'll save you some searching.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/94613-the-sheep-chronicles-dipping-ones-hoof-into-an-industrial-backwaterthe-continuing-adventures-of-norman-lockhart/

 

Enjoy!

 

Alex.

[Peter Lord]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

This all heading inexorably in the direction of Berrow and East Brent https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/131447-the-berrow-branch/

 

One way to justify the usually difficult to justify ‘twig off the branch’ in your context might be to make it serve some sort of Royal Navy facility, which rather messes-up the motor train idea I admit.

 

How about we add a RN branch to the topology of Bembridge? The siding now serves primarily as an exchange point, with the meagre coal traffic dealt with near the stops.

 

The dotted track is an alternative to the slip, but I think the slip is better.

 

Clearly the RN trains have authority to work within the station.

 

 

 

 

 

Do I spy a sector plate? Does anyone produce one in 00 gauge? Yes, I have been mulling over the connection between the primary and secondary lines. My instinct is to keep the branch separate with a connecting cord rather than requiring the branch trains to use the primary line to exit the station.

[Peter Lord]

Here is a sketch that I started, showing the features I have (more or less) decided on. Blank area in the middle is where I need to fathom out how to join up the dots!

Key:

1) more than ample room for a large tank engine to release itself via the crossover.

2) Locomotive spur

3) room (plus clearance) for five six-wheelers between the crossovers

4) room for a terrier and three four-wheelers in the bay platform

5 &6) primary and secondary lines disappear off scene.

 

What I have drawn so far measures up and fits. If I go with this configuration, a three-way point at the right crossover might suffice to join the dots in conjunction with a Y-point. If I am wildly mistaken then please let me know!

[Nearholmer]

Without knowing the detailed geometry of all the points, yes, it should.

 

You might even use two three-ways, and put the loco-spur between the two exit roads to the FY.

 

I rather like the one platform arrangement that I sketched, because it fits with the ‘never busy’ nature of a lot of these lines, and creates vast amounts of shuffling about to achieve a very sparse service. I think Roco make a small diameter TT; I had one about thirty years ago and it was blooming excellent.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Peter Lord]

Nearholmer, I was wondering about my justification for the two branches. The primary one comes from a suburban centre where it itself is a branch off the main line. The secondary branch potters along the coast. Maybe one side of my baseboard could be a beach...