locomotive kits 30368's Workbench SR Loco's with a bit of LNER

[30368]

Update on the B9 which continues to go together well providing I can identify the parts! I have an Isinglass Drawing (4/479) for the B9/1 and B9/2 and it's the latter that I am building. A bonus was digging around in my spares box and discovered a set of 21.2 mm wheels which will be fine for this loco. They are 16 spoke with the crank correctly located between spokes.

 

The wheels are a tiny amount too small but not enough to worry about. Those front guard irons will, I'm sure, require trimming!

 

Cylinder and crosshead supports in place. What I hope is the ashpan ready for fitment.

 

Cylinder crossmembers located.

 

Michael (Edge) are these the ashpan pieces?

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[Michael Edge]

They are the brake shaft brackets, ashpan sides are here in the footpate etch.

The small holes locate them on the brake pivots, half etch is for a plain spacer.

Don't bother with the Isinglass drawing for construction, although it will be useful for details, use mine which is drawn from the GA. If you're not sure what any part is try it around the drawing until it fits something exactly - it will somewhere, what you have is the drawing th eparts were created from and it's printed exact size.

[30368]

Thanks very much Michael, much appreciated.

 

Richard B

[30368]

Thanks to Michael Edge's help futher progress has been made with the B9 chassis.

 

Ashpan and associated crossmember soldered into position together with brake hanger supports. 10 thou brass sheet for boiler and firebox provides "backdrop".

 

 

The cylinders and slide bars are at quite an angle on the B9. The frame slots and cylinder crossmembers set this very well. To align the piston rod and provide stiffness to the cylinders, bearing in mind the outer cover will be fairly thin brass sheet, I have cut a piece of brass tubing to size to solder between front and back cylinder crossmembers. This is probably not essential I should add! Piston rod diameter on the B9 is large - 1.1mm.

 

Soldered in place.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

Edited April 5, 2021 by 30368

[30368]

And so onto the connecting rods. The connecting rods themselves are straitforward, two sections that need to be tinned and then soldered together making sure that crankpin holes are aligned. The crosshead consists of two identical etches that need to be very carefully handled. The piston rod (1.1 mm brass rod) fits between the two halves of the crosshead. I flattened the end of the rod and then cleaned it up with a file so that it would provide a good solder land with the two crosshead halves and look prototypical.

 

First rod assembled, parts for the second rod prior to assembly.

 

I used a 16BA screw and nut to nip the two crosshead halves together making sure that they are square.

 

 

The piston rod is just nipped by the two crosshead halves. Leave a 1mm space between the end of the rod and the 16BA screw to avoid solder running into the thread. I used some paint (matt black) to protect the two inside halves of the crosshead and the connecting rod from solder migration, we don't want a solid assembly!! Ensure all is in line before soldering. After soldering, bend over the four (two each side) vertical extentions to the crosshead to create the raised boss at the end of the crosshead (see above).

 

 

Connecting rod alignment with piston and slidebar bracket looks good.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by 30368

[Michael Edge]

That's looking good, glad you're finding it quite easy.

[30368]

Thanks Michael, praise from the praisworthy!

 

Final update today. Michael suggested 1mm square section rod for the slidebars which would be fine but I had some "T" section brass rod that I thought might do the job and used this because I had no 1mm square. I have two sizes and chose the larger section to make the assembly robust.

The lower section rod was used for the slidebars.

 

 

The cylinder end of the slidebars required filing to fit. I tacked the slidebars to the frame support bracket since if the setup didn't work it would be easy to unsolder and think again.

 

In the event, after a little easing of the cylinder tube (I suspected some solder) the set up worked very well.

 

The result is, perhaps, a little "heavt duty" compared to the prototype but I am pleased with the result. I still have to solder the cylinder end of the slidebars.

 

I shall leave the firemans side until tomorrow.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

 

[Michael Edge]

That's not really what the slidebars look like - they are solid flat bars, 1mm isn't wide enough really most slidebars are about 4" - 5" wide. Tender kit should be in the post tomorrow.

[30368]

15 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

That's not really what the slidebars look like

 

Hi Michael,

 

Will check it out prototype photographs again tomorrow. The illustrations of GC outside cylindered 4-6-0's in V22 of Yeadon's suggests a "T" section slide bar with the top of the "T" removed beyond the maximum stroke of the piston to the cylinder face. The slide bar fitted is 2mm wide at the top of the "T" and 1mm wide below. It is a compromise. Drawings don't help!

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

Edited April 7, 2021 by 30368

[Michael Edge]

This is a flat bar, tapers to both ends from maximum thickness at the slidebar bracket. Many of the photos in Yeadon show a prominent oil mark along the length of the piston stroke which may have deceived you. Incidentally this shows the splash guard behind the slidebars quite clearly but there's usually enough difficulty with clearances behind crossheads/slidebars without adding these!

[30368]

3 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

Many of the photos in Yeadon show a prominent oil mark along the length of the piston stroke which may have deceived you.

 

Hi Michael,

 

I have looked again at all the images I have of the B9 and they are not of ideal quality - not a surprise given that they had all gone by 1949. I hope you don't mind, after all you designed the kit!, but I beg to differ. I have changed my version of the slidebars in the light of your comments namely:

 

1. Reduced the width of the top of the "T" section along the section of the slidebar that is coincident with the stroke of the crosshead.

2. Removed the top section between the end of the stroke to the cylinder chest making it a flat bar.

 

I accept that I have overdone the taper at the end of the slidebars and they are too deep but I wanted them to be robust.

 

This is how they now look:

 

And fitted to the mainframe:

 

 

 

The best example I could find is:

 

 

Your help on this build is much appreciated.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by 30368

[Michael Edge]

Still wrong I'm afraid, the surface the crosshead slides on is flat all along, in the case of the B9 it runs almost to the back end of the bars as the oil marks show. All the taper is on the face away from the crosshead, i.e. top and bottom.

This photo of the preserved O4 shows it better, the B9 slidebars and crossheads are more or less identical. The width is apparent here and the shiny area shows how far back the crosshead runs. T section slidebars were found in GW, LMS and BR locos but not common elsewhere.

 

[30368]

I submit Michael!

I will do the best I can - I'm not sure that the crosshead would survive dismantling since it is not wide enough to bridge a 2mm or so wide slidebar. There does seem to be some variation (not unkown in locomotive classes!) in the slidebar images, some, I agree, are flush to the side view but some are "T" shaped BUT reversed with the wide section forming the sliding surface. Blast! It all works very nicely too.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

 

 

[Michael Edge]

I can't see T section slidebars on any GC loco, I think you may be looking a the oil marks where the crosshead runs.

[t-b-g]

I would agree with Mike Edge on this matter. The slide bars are rectangular in section and tapered.

 

What looks like a T section is just the difference between shiny metal where the crosshead makes contact and the dull part where it doesn't.

 

 

[30368]

I have reversed the slidebars, they now look much closer to the O4 illustration above, i.e. a wide slidebar and the crossheads fit well.

Gents, have a look at the picture of 6112 on page 119 of V22 of Yeadon's Register, it suggests strongly that on this B9 the slidebar is indeed of "t" section. I agree though that most examples display a square section with a bright line due to the crosshead.

I have a B7 kit to build too chaps and I promise never to use "T" section slidebars again, ever!!*

 

Thanks for the debate, I've enjoyed it and learnt a great deal.

 

I am going to run with this...

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

* On an ex GCR Loco.

[Michael Edge]

Yes, I've looked at all the photos, that line is present on many of them but much more pronounced on 6112. I think what's causing it it that where the crosshead is running is shiny and oily, where it doesn't run there is a build up of gunk. This might even build up into a ledge on the bottom of the bar if it gets thick enough. Look at the photo of 6105 on the opposite page, you can see this effect quite clearly - the crosshead runs right to the back of the slidebars (unlike the O4 I illustrated this with) and you can see where this "ledge" stops at the forward limit of crosshead travel.

[30368]

Whilst I wait for the motor and gearbox for the B9 I will push on to the loco body so I have cut out the running plate. I need to order bogie and tender wheels too. Will use Alan Gibson wheels.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

[30368]

Well that's typical! just as I start on the running plate the motor and gearbox arrives, but I'm not complaining thanks DJH.

 

So I have changed my priorities somewhat given that I will wish to complete the chassis it seemed sensible to roll the boiler so that I could locate the motor with the minimum interference with the boiler barrel.

The instructions with the kit provide a very good template for boiler and smokebox inner and firebox which should both be made with 10 thou brass sheet.

 

I have marked the boiler centre line and boiler band locations. Spent some time ensureing that the sheet was square.

 

I don't have a set of rollers so I use a section of copper pipe and wooden dowel. As you can see, the pipe is much smaller in diameter than the 21mm diameter of the boiler. Making sure that the sheet is parallel to the pipe (we don't require one of those GW taper boilers!) I progressively bend the sheet around the pipe applying pressure as equal as possible along the legnth of the sheet. Small steps seems to work fairly well.

 

Ready for soldering.

 

Soldered and ready for fettling.

 

Doesn't look too bad!

 

And it is mostly round!

 

Located on the chassis in roughly the right place, dome position drilled and motor/gearbox in the picture too.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

Edited April 8, 2021 by 30368

[30368]

Moving on with the boiler assembly.

 

Surprised that the kit does not contain a firebox former but then it was very reasonably priced. It does though have a template.

 

Using the same sheet from which the boiler was cut I marked out the firebox former taking care to get the various radii correct.

 

The former is almousr complete, I will have to cut out clearance for motor and gearbox that mostly resides in the firebox. Note that the former is slightly smaller than the outside dimention to allow for the thickness of the sheet that will cover it.

 

Blu tacked to the boiler.

 

Side view

 

That is enough for today!

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[Michael Edge]

The B9 wasn't designed as a kit, I didn't have any thought of selling it when I drew it up, it was just for my own use. These "etch only" ones came out of selling off surplus etches on here when I'd built enough for myself - it just snowballed from there and more recent ones have been designed more like kits. Your boiler looks good, thanks for pointing out that it's not too difficult to roll brass without rolling bars - I did for many years before I acquired any.

[30368]

37 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

The B9 wasn't designed as a kit,

 

Many thanks.

Ah, that makes sense, in which case its a really good etch and I can't recall how much it cost but not very much. Irrespective of that, I am enjoying the mix of "kit" and scratch build. The templates make life much easier and at the end of it, hopefully, a model of one of Mr Robinson's many 4-6-0 types. He was one of the great CM&EE's, he was offered the LNER job first I think but turned it down. I wonder what a Robinson pacific would look like? Wide firebox?

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

 

 

 

[30368]

Today I mainly worked on the running plate which, rather like a Urie H15, has a "bridge" over the cylinders making construction a little more complex but in all honesty it goes together very easily except for my error!

 

The section of the running plate running over the cylinders extends back towards the leading splasher to create a sandbox mounted on the running plate. Michael Edge very helpfully advised me not to do that but I had already done so! It is easily recoverable but a silly mistake on my part!

 

Sorry, a poor picture. DO NOT REMOVE the section marked in red!

 

 

 

You can see the offending parts below!  All will be well.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

[John Tomlinson]

Really motoring with this now, Richard, I'll be very interested to see the final outcome. Not sure I've ever seen a model of a B9 before.

 

John.

[Michael Edge]

They should be easy to put back anyway.

Three pictures of mine, 61475 was the last survivor of the class. It has been expertly weathered by BarryO since these were taken.