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30368's Workbench SR Loco's with a bit of LNER


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12 hours ago, Jack Benson said:

Beware of assumptions, the interior of the T9 cab differed from the D15

 

Hi Jack,

 

Good advice I agree assumptions not based on any logic are to be avoided.

 

Bradley's book has a series of backplate GA drawings for his 4-6-0s. They are all much the same and much like the T9. Drummonds LSWR engines were driver LH side so that means the vacuum ejector pipe and drivers brake actuator are on that side together with the reverser lever. The regulator handle is positioned facing the drivers side. All of that can be seen in your images of the preserved T9 above (thanks, very good pictures). When you also add that footplate men were very conservative and liked averything to be in its place with no surprises then it is very likely that all of the Drummond 4-4-0 classes had a very similar cab layout. At 4mm scale any slight variations can be ignored, besides there was every likelihood that succesive works visits would produce their own slight variations of which we will never know!

 

I shall be using the excellent backplate casting provided with the T9 kit with some adjustment to allow for the higher pitched boiler.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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Guest Jack Benson
12 hours ago, Blandford1969 said:

How was the D15 different in layout, have you found a GA of the cab as it would be very similar to the L12 and S11?.

 

The only ones I have found are side on in Bradley.

Hi, this point was raised as part of DLT’s D15 build.

Eastleigh did not release GAs of the D15 as was normal practice, possibly due to the death and replacement of Drummond.

 

The only clue to changes with the D15 cab layout is hidden within the text of publications which provide scant detail of the differences in the changes of locations of some controls.

 

StaySafe

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1 hour ago, Jack Benson said:

Eastleigh did not release GAs of the D15 as was normal practice

 

Hi Jack,

 

Page 216 of Bradley's book has a reproduction of the D15 GA and, at least in profile, the cab controls are pretty standard and much the same as the other 4-4-0's.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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Also, remember that although there were various different classes of loco, several of them shared the same boilers, so controls would have been similar.

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Did the Finney 7mm kit ever get finished, the designers 'might' have some information as might the South Western Circle?. None of the Eastleigh drawings listed by the NRM have the backhead although it does include cab windows, automatic reversing gear and bogies all of which were common to K10s and M7s as well. 

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10 minutes ago, Blandford1969 said:

Did the Finney 7mm kit ever get finished, the designers 'might' have some information as might the South Western Circle?

 

Hi Blandford,

 

I will get in touch with SW Circle, I am a member after all! I will let you know if a discover anything.

 

As Dave suggests, with interchangeable boilers things need to be in the same place. If the "LSWR culture" survived into the early 1960s at Eastleigh, and I suspect it probably did, then spending money on unique to class boiler backplate fittings and locations would be a no no. The same was true of SR EMU's re-use if you can or if not adapt the EE507 TM for another application.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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2 hours ago, Blandford1969 said:

Did the Finney 7mm kit ever get finished, the designers 'might' have some information as might the South Western Circle?

 

Hi,

 

I have been in email correspondance with Mike King of the SW Circle re boiler backplate on Drummond L12/S1/T9 and he suggests that there was very little difference between the classes regarding fittings/controls. He has made this assumption with his S11 which is a re-worked L12!

 

Thats good enough for me.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

 

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The specticle plate is now finished and has been soldered to the two cab/splasher sides. I have drilled the Specticle Plate with all the openings for whistle control, steam supplies to cab, handrails and gravity lubrication pipes.

 

The two cab specticle windows were pilot drilled and then enlarged with a selection of broaches from the inside of the cab so that a circular "burr" appears on the outside that forms the brass window frame.

 

Gearbox and motor run well I have not yet located the motor mounting plate which accounts for the steep angle of the motor.

 

Sorry poor picture even by my low standards. Not cleaned up yet.

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Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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4 hours ago, 30368 said:

................

Gearbox and motor run well I have not yet located the motor mounting plate which accounts for the steep angle of the motor.

................

 

2097850190_IMG_6565(2).JPG.e708c99ba741b9ca9972695334c10fa7.JPG

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

I do like the idea of the motor angled as in your pic - I have a couple of 4-4-0s to build some day, and this looks like a good way to sort the perennial problem with 4-4-0s and get adequate weight above the driving wheels, at the back of the firebox.  What motor/gearbox combination are you using ?

 

Alasdair

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A few pictures of my T9 to L12 "conversion" which involved a similar amount of scratchbuilding as the S11 project.

 

Fair bit of greenstuff filling!

712451261_IMG_4272(2).JPG.1b65553a1195b2cb78e690d35a20880c.JPG

 

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Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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26 minutes ago, AJCT said:

I do like the idea of the motor angled as in your pic

Hi Alastair,

 

Yes agree, they are quite a problem.

 

The gearbox is a Branchlines 2 stage box (53:1) but I have used the most accute axle position to move the weight accordingly and then removed the unecessary section of the gearbox to minimise the incursion into the boiler and firebox space. The motor is a 10/20 Mashima. Not a very powerful combination but fairly low gearing to help getaway and top speed really not important given the role these loco's performed in the early 1950s.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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On 16/06/2021 at 19:01, Jack Benson said:

For a few people’s delight, Paul also plans to release a T14…….a real loco with wow factor..

 

 

Just to reinforce what Jack has said about PDK. I emailed Paul at PDK and he confirms that he is planning a T14 4-6-0 kit and will update his website with a few details. I am sure Jack would have been lobbying Paul for a T14 since we share an interest in these ugly but interesting locos. I have made it clear to Paul that I will buy one.

All very good news, I have wanted a model of these Drummond/Urie hybrids for some time. They worked Waterloo - Basingstoke and Waterloo - Salisbury stoppers so should fit in well with late 1940/early 1950s Basingstoke.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard

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Brief S11 update - fitting splasher tops - made from 5thou brass sheet and soldered to cab assembly. Very fiddly but appearance is pretty good.

1898906664_IMG_6566(2).JPG.5a7fa9cfd327096333b48fea1fa7de4b.JPG

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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Cab and splashers assembly now soldered to running plate. Boiler being prepared for fitting.

I think the next step is to make and fit the front frame that forms the support for the smokebox. This will overlay the whitemetal section at the front of the running plate.

 

The solder run onto the running plate has been roughly cleaned up, more work needed. I am pleased with the appearance.

1938593381_IMG_6567(2).JPG.42d6434c841024efb0b5a774edff689c.JPG

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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I have been a bit busy on other things but have at last managed to make the mainframe section that supports the higher S11 smokebox. There where a failure or two due to using N/S of too thick a section that then had a 5 thou overlay for the rivet detail. It was all too thick so I re-made using 10 thou brass sheet offcuts which were thin enough to take the rivet detail without using an overlay.

 

I must apologise for the picture quality I usually manage better "snaps" than these!

 

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Next step will be to trial fit the boiler and smokebox.

 

I have been advised to used sticky tape for the boiler bands so I will fit those onto the boiler before fitting to the loco body.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

 

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I have now fixed the boiler to the smokebox casting. You will see that I had to extend the boiler slightly with an insert. A wooden dowl was inserted into the boiler prior to marking out and drilling boiler fittings and handrail knob holes to minimise the risk of a dimple around the hole due to drilling pressure.

 

The boiler/firebox end will require sections to be inserted to fill the gaps due to the differences in T9 and S11 boiler pitch and wheel diameters.

1070199239_IMG_6572(2).JPG.d047889c0f13daaae8917dfc3042b5e3.JPG

 

 

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Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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Boiler now united with running plate.

 

Used sticky tape boiler bands for the first time, apart from being a bit too wide they are fine and so easy to do! Thanks to Michael Edge for finally convincing me!

217195339_IMG_6581(2).JPG.4925b9b5fc10a2c64d03d9da74e6b579.JPG

 

 

Gap at base of firebox will be covered by firebox mounting plate.

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Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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Today's update. I have fitted the correct pattern Drummond dome and fabricated the tall original Drummond chimney from a couple of chimney white metal castings. The GA has its hight as 1ft 10.5in or just under 8mm. The picture of 30398 on Basingstoke has this style of chimney fitted.  My chimney is a smigeon under 8mm so ok but looks a little too tall. I can reduce still further. The firebox support brackets that are located between the splashers are made from white metal offcuts and help weight distribution as does the (too narrow) cab splasher/cab seats casting, which will be modified with sheet brass.

 

Starts to look like an S11 I think/hope!

 

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Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

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Very impressed with the quality of the cast whitemetal boiler fittings/pipework between the two injectors and the boiler. The boiler feed to the clack valve is particularly good. I wonder what happened to the moulds? I havn't found anyone producing Drummond LSWR fittings as good as these, I don't mind being corrected!

 

The sand boxes for the leading wheel, tucked away inside the frame are also high quality.

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Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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I have pressed on with body detail. Gravity oil feeds that run alongside the boiler are made from 0.31mm grass wire, the two pipes are soldered together from the back of the wire and then fixed to the boiler using 5 thou brass clamps as on the prototype. The cab floor is made from 10 thou brass scribbed to represent the wooden planks. a brass LSWR style whistle has been fitted, this came with the kit as did the cab operated valves on either side of the whistle.

 

Cab roof in early stages of construction - made from 10 thou brass sheet . Unlike the D15 4-4-0 which had a high arch to the roof, rather like Drummond and Urie's 4-6-0s, the S11 had a flatish roof profile much like the T9's and all the other Drummond 4-4-0s.

608766208_IMG_6590(2).JPG.5be3239aca79dbf91d2c11d2aa8cbbc7.JPG

 

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Note that at each end of the roof the profile is slightly flatened.

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View of the cab, the splashers/seat assemblies are too wide a downside of 00 gauge I'm afraid.

1610250725_IMG_6593(2).JPG.b4d9f0d376357b980a1a0ced65bccb3f.JPG

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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HI,

 

Cab roof is now complete. It took about 5-6 hours to build, it is a fairly complex shape as you can see from the images. I used various extruded brass sections for the edging and reinforcing strips. The rear edging being particularly tricky with all those curves and then the need to bend up the ends to match the roof profile. Still, worth the effort I think.

 

I have looked carefully at all my S11 pictures and can find no trace of the Drummond style steam reverser cylinder. Both T9 and L12 have them mounted high up on the frames in front of the L/H front splasher. Eventually looked at the GA drawing again and it seems to show the reverser cylinder mounted much lower in the frames so it is not realy visable which explains a lot!

 

The original narrow bodied T9 cast roof compared to my effort.

761399732_IMG_6594(2).JPG.ba9fe26eb919c4db82cd0695e021d541.JPG

 

Roff fits very well with virtually no gaps between specticle plate and roof. It takes careful filing to match the two profiles and meet drawing diamentions.

1359677464_IMG_6597(2).JPG.4dbb4d81d5e6e5141dffa226a1e4bb76.JPG

 

I need to re-position a few of the clamps securing the oil feeds!

1607363849_IMG_6598(2).JPG.234287f32f18f7047df1617a7745b0f0.JPG

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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Today I worked on the chassis. Brake support rods fitted and wheel crankpins - Markets deluxe pins. The coupling rods fitted with no adjustment necessary - free running. I needed to remove the running plate between the splashers to clear the coupling rods. Now looks like an S11.

 

This model has been built with a live frame so pick-ups (wiper) only on the insulated wheel side. I will consider fitting pick-ups on the tender bogies but could be tricky!

1578734641_IMG_6599(2).JPG.4c464c721fedbad3ebf84ad3cec7e0c8.JPG

 

I need to re-fit the reverser rodding I had to remove it to gain access to remove the running plate for coupling rod clearance.

728948815_IMG_6600(2).JPG.cb91792db9e3de94bfaa8f2fb926ba04.JPG

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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I have been running in the chassis - it runs very smoothly until fitted to the body! Clearances around the mechanism needed to be increased and the chassis ride hight adjusted to compensate for the lost 2mm or so due to 6' drivers instead of the 6' 7" of the T9. The latter helped with the clearance issues. All is now well and I await the delivery of six 14mm 10 spoke Gibson bogie and tender wheels ordered yesterday. Incidently, I'm sure you LSWR buffs will know but Drummond used the same wheel diameter for both bogie and tenders so that used bogie wheels could be re-cycled on the tender. Another example of early standardisation.

 

While I await the wheels I have started to detail the body further using 5 thou brass sheet for the (removed) snifting valve covers on the smokebox. These disapear when a new smokebox is fitted but 30398 was scrapped before needing a new smokebox.

 

Mechanism running at top speed, patented "heat sink" to avoid any undue heat build up after extended running.

888320594_IMG_6601(2).JPG.fd4537ee76f9b4f7f51f86195508a4ec.JPG

 

Cover over cylinder end covers/slide valves a little ill fitting but thin sheet covers took a bit of a bashing in service.

894881469_IMG_6602(2).JPG.77d498d530ff2904cae60b0c7c75b3db.JPG

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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Working on the handrail today, always fiddly especially those of the wrap around type as fitted to the S11. I usally fit the boiler and spokebox handrail knobs ensuring that they are all square. I then slide the smokebox front handrail knobs onto the wire and then thread the wire through the smokebox and boiler knobs.

 

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Wire needs some final adjustment and straitening up.

1955791828_IMG_6607(2).JPG.eb1cd1b1eebdee82d8377225b1aaf67b.JPG

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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