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Ponts Mill....60's/70's working.


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Hi

 

I'm thinking of starting a layout set in the 60s steam era but maybe as I have the stock to also separately run in the 70's blue diesel era.

The idea is to have a small terminus with a small clay facility on the other end of the layout to hide the fiddle yard which would be accessed from the station by a long siding propelling wagons to the facility which would just have a couple of sidings & no run round loop.

 

Wenford would probably be too big but an adaptation of Ponts Mill seems ideal.....

 

I've found on the internet & have pictures from various publications of more recent stock used ( 80's 'till closure ) but nothing relating to the earlier railway stock having made the assumption it was rail served in the sixties.....That being so I assume that I assume China Clay opens & box vans for bagged clay would be the norm with a Pannier to do the shunting.Maybe coal wagons & the occasional open wagon bringing in stores.

 

Any references to relevant loco's & goods stock used would be appreciated.

The buildings etc. probably didn't change too much until closure.

 

Thanks in anticipation...

 

Bill 

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I think your not far off there Bill but don't forget steam finished in 1962. No doubt you've seen the relevant bits on my thread and the posts by Stocker are well work a look. West Cornwall Mineral Railways by Maurice Dart is worth having too. For possible locos look up  BR Database for St Blazey.

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Hi TrevorP1

 

Thanks for that.

I lived next to a branch line in Somerset which was closed in June '64 & was mainly steam hauled 'til the end so I'd not realised/forgotten that steam finished in Cornwall in 1962.

I've got that Maurice Dart book but never thought to look in there.....Thanks for the heads up.

I'm following your thread & have found Stoker's input most useful & interesting.Indeed  he has commented on my Hendra thread with some very useful info but mainly more recent operations.

Thanks again for the reply.......

I look forward to continuing watching Burngullow Lane progress....

 

Bill

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Bill, I did something similar 40 years ago. It was a little bigger and more complex than I think you have in mind but the concept was the same. Have a look back at page 1 of my Mid-Cornwall Lines topic. There's no plan but the photos should tell you enough - or, if you have it, look in the December 1987 Railway Modeller.

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3 hours ago, TrevorP1 said:

I think your not far off there Bill but don't forget steam finished in 1962. 

Officially it was 03 May 64 for the ex GWR lines when WC 'Salisbury' was rostered on a Plymouth to Penzance 'Farewell to Steam' special

 

The last steam hauled train over the North Cornwall Route was the ACE  which left Padstow on 06 Sep 64 behind WC 'Blackmore Vale'.

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20 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Bill, I did something similar 40 years ago. It was a little bigger and more complex than I think you have in mind but the concept was the same. Have a look back at page 1 of my Mid-Cornwall Lines topic. There's no plan but the photos should tell you enough - or, if you have it, look in the December 1987 Railway Modeller.

Hi St Enedoc

Thanks for the response.....

I've been following your thread for a while now  enjoying your regular updates but never read the start....Have now & very interesting & informative it is too....

As you say possibly too big for my plans as it stands but it was how my first thoughts ran....

One of the reasons I thought of Pontsmill was that the loading of the clay opens would be hidden within  the loading shed....

 

At TrevorP1's suggestion I read Maurice Dart's book last night & it shows the bulk loading facility  loading a Polybulk at the entrance & it looks like that is the beginning of the covered shed.....

 

You have modelled a classic dry where the clay would have been barrowed into the empty wagons & then they would have been sheeted over  & then taken to Fowey or the potteries or Scotland.

What I wanted to do if possible was to have a situation where empty wagons are shunted in & full ones removed without having to show the hand from the sky loading....

An enclosed Linhay was what I was looking for & i was wondering if Pontsmill was like this in real life.

The layout of the site with the works in effect being a siding of a branch to other works means that looking from the pictures I can find this might be the case....

Thanks again for your input & I shall continue to enjoy your regular updates on yourlayout thread

 

Cheers Bill

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I’ve just dug out my copy of John Vaughan’s ‘The Newquay Branchline and it’s Branches’ - my go to for inspiration. 
 

The line used to carry on past Ponts Mill up the Luxulyan Valley - part of which was the route of the original Treffy Tramway. It carried on to quarries and to Trevanny Dry, which was shut in the early 60s. At one stage a petrol loco took the wagons to BR at Ponts Mill. As it wasn’t very powerful loaded wagons were often run down under gravity. Later lorries took the clay to a loading wharf for transshipment. 

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3 hours ago, treggyman said:

Hi St Enedoc

Thanks for the response.....

I've been following your thread for a while now  enjoying your regular updates but never read the start....Have now & very interesting & informative it is too....

As you say possibly too big for my plans as it stands but it was how my first thoughts ran....

One of the reasons I thought of Pontsmill was that the loading of the clay opens would be hidden within  the loading shed....

 

At TrevorP1's suggestion I read Maurice Dart's book last night & it shows the bulk loading facility  loading a Polybulk at the entrance & it looks like that is the beginning of the covered shed.....

 

You have modelled a classic dry where the clay would have been barrowed into the empty wagons & then they would have been sheeted over  & then taken to Fowey or the potteries or Scotland.

What I wanted to do if possible was to have a situation where empty wagons are shunted in & full ones removed without having to show the hand from the sky loading....

An enclosed Linhay was what I was looking for & i was wondering if Pontsmill was like this in real life.

The layout of the site with the works in effect being a siding of a branch to other works means that looking from the pictures I can find this might be the case....

Thanks again for your input & I shall continue to enjoy your regular updates on yourlayout thread

 

Cheers Bill

Thanks Bill. I know you follow life on the Mid-Cornwall Lines - you sent me some very useful photos of trap points a couple of years ago.

 

Good luck with this layout! I look forward to progress.

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Hi Bill, good to hear that you're contemplating a new layout. Are you intending to swap open (unloaded) wagons with sheeted (full) wagons then? Before the 'Clayhoods' were introduced (about 1973), the empty wagons were usually unsheeted, with the sheets either folded up inside the wagon or, I believe, sometimes in an accompanying van. The obvious advantage of the Clayhoods being that full & empty look the same!

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ramblin Rich said:

Hi Bill, good to hear that you're contemplating a new layout. Are you intending to swap open (unloaded) wagons with sheeted (full) wagons then? Before the 'Clayhoods' were introduced (about 1973), the empty wagons were usually unsheeted, with the sheets either folded up inside the wagon or, I believe, sometimes in an accompanying van. The obvious advantage of the Clayhoods being that full & empty look the same!

 

 

Hi Rich

Thanks for the above comment.....

 

The answer to your question is yes....

 

But as I have intimated I am hoping to do this off scene......

Doing the loading  / unloading in the full view of the public at an exhibition would I feel detract from the scene.

The idea is to have the fiddle yard hidden by the Clay works buildings ( as is the case with Hendra ) but if the wagons disappear from sight into a building the wagons can either be swapped over or loads added out of sight......

As you say permanently sheeted / covered wagons are a relatively new concept in the scheme of things.

 

Cheers Bill

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54 minutes ago, treggyman said:

Hi Rich

Thanks for the above comment.....

 

The answer to your question is yes....

 

But as I have intimated I am hoping to do this off scene......

Doing the loading  / unloading in the full view of the public at an exhibition would I feel detract from the scene.

The idea is to have the fiddle yard hidden by the Clay works buildings ( as is the case with Hendra ) but if the wagons disappear from sight into a building the wagons can either be swapped over or loads added out of sight......

As you say permanently sheeted / covered wagons are a relatively new concept in the scheme of things.

 

Cheers Bill

My friend @RudderC of this parish has the folded sheets permanently glued to the floors of his clay wagons, so they are visible when "empty", and detachable sheets to cover them when "loaded". The change between loaded and empty takes place off stage. If you are making the change in a hidden area that should work for you too, Bill.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

My friend @RudderC of this parish has the folded sheets permanently glued to the floors of his clay wagons, so they are visible when "empty", and detachable sheets to cover them when "loaded". The change between loaded and empty takes place off stage. If you are making the change in a hidden area that should work for you too, Bill.

That's a good idea, would be good to see but I don't think @RudderC has posted much on here?

(Can't get the @ function to work :unknw_mini:)

Edited by Ramblin Rich
@
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8 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

My friend @RudderC of this parish has the folded sheets permanently glued to the floors of his clay wagons, so they are visible when "empty", and detachable sheets to cover them when "loaded". The change between loaded and empty takes place off stage. If you are making the change in a hidden area that should work for you too, Bill.

Hi

Thanks for the suggestion....It certainly is a good idea....

The other option I had thought of was having some permanently loaded & some permanently empty & swapping them over......

I know they're wrong but I have about 20 of the Backmann clay wagons already from years ago so it won't cost a fortune to have so many wagons.......

Thanks again for the suggestion

 

Cheers Bill

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5 hours ago, Ramblin Rich said:

That's a good idea, would be good to see but I don't think @RudderC has posted much on here?

(Can't get the @ function to work :unknw_mini:)

He hasn't Rich - he's a reader rather than a writer.

 

For those who follow the Mid-Cornwall Lines, he is the alter ego of W C Wolseley, the well-known railway photographer and cinematographer.

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Hi,

 

Strathwood have published a book called "Tales from the Clay Country working with steam in Cornwall". Might be worth picking up for some inspiration and prototypical workings.

Good luck with the layout.

 

Best regards and stay safe,

 

Jeremy

 

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3 minutes ago, cornish trains jez said:

Hi,

 

Strathwood have published a book called "Tales from the Clay Country working with steam in Cornwall". Might be worth picking up for some inspiration and prototypical workings.

Good luck with the layout.

 

Best regards and stay safe,

 

Jeremy

 

That's odd. I've a book with exactly that title, written by Philip E Rundle MBE, that was published by Irwell Press in 2011.

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2 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

That's odd. I've a book with exactly that title, written by Philip E Rundle MBE, that was published by Irwell Press in 2011.

 

 

It's in my latest Strathwood catalogue. Just checked and it has Philips name at the bottom on the cover. Same book then.

 

 

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Just now, cornish trains jez said:

 

 

It's in my latest Strathwood catalogue. Just checked and it has Philips name at the bottom on the cover. Same book then.

 

 

In that case it has indeed some very good photos in it, of all aspects of the Western in Cornwall, not just clay working.

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2 hours ago, cornish trains jez said:

It's in my latest Strathwood catalogue. Just checked and it has Philips name at the bottom on the cover. Same book then.

 

Strathwood now sell Irwell press publications, they come out of the same warehouse.

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H

 

Thanks all for the above book suggestion & comments....

Now on order & hopefully here in a few days time....

 

Cheers Bill

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