How do you number points?

[ITG]

Soon to start laying track for new layout, which will have some 30+ points, split between those on a twin circuit (eg crossovers, loops etc), those in a double-ended fiddle yard, and those in a terminus station (about half of the total number).

I’m just pondering how best to sequence the number identifier for each point for DCC.

Perhaps for the circuit, start somewhere and go clockwise?

But of particular interest is how to number in the terminus:

- numerically from throat to end in a linear fashion (or the other way), or, 

- linear into the main platform roads from throat, and then linear again from throat into bay/ goods yard etc (ie two parallel sets of linear numbers).

Or number in blocks, eg all the twin track crossovers are 11 upwards, fiddle yard are all 20 something, terminus all 30 something  (even if that means some numerical gaps)

 

I’m only asking from a practical viewpoint, as obviously the number is only an identifier, but which way is easiest to recall? how do other folk do it?

[NinOz]

I give each area or group of points a different base value (say 100,200,300,etc) and then number points that are typically used together with sequential numbers (201,202... and 210,211....) so that is easy to dialup sequential numbers when needed.

Label track plan or mimic panel with the number of the point so I don't have to remember the number.

[JimFin]

You need to factor in the programming protocol of accessory decoder(s) you are going to use. e.g. The ESU switch Pilot can only be programmed in blocks of 4 and must start with a multiple of 4 - so the first groups available begin 1, 5, 9, 13 etc. Same applies with Gaugemaster, maybe others. Gaps in the sequences cost nothing so long as you always use all the available outputs and leaving gaps in multiples of 4. 

 

From a practical standpoint, but my layouts are less complex than yours, I number from left to right looking at the layout from the front. As I use computer software and a touch screen mimic board, the numbers are only relevant during the build and programming parts of the job but do keep a written record and diagram for trouble shooting.

[ITG]

JimFin, I’m using both Gaugemaster PM10D and DCC Cobalt point motors, each with built in decoders, so I think the blocks of 4 issue doesn’t apply. On the current layout, I just numbered them as I laid and connected each point, so there is a kind of natural sequencing to it. But as I’m starting all over again (having learnt so much about every aspect of this hobby on my first layout for 50 years), I’m trying to be a little more considered in my planning ahead, and less impatient to get something running. Hence the question.

[JohnDMJ]

9 hours ago, JimFin said:

You need to factor in the programming protocol of accessory decoder(s) you are going to use. e.g. The ESU switch Pilot can only be programmed in blocks of 4 and must start with a multiple of 4 - so the first groups available begin 1, 5, 9, 13 etc. Same applies with Gaugemaster, maybe others. Gaps in the sequences cost nothing so long as you always use all the available outputs and leaving gaps in multiples of 4. 

 

From a practical standpoint, but my layouts are less complex than yours, I number from left to right looking at the layout from the front. As I use computer software and a touch screen mimic board, the numbers are only relevant during the build and programming parts of the job but do keep a written record and diagram for trouble shooting.

 

IIRC, this only applies to the DCC30.

 

DCC32 can be programmed to individual numbers on each of the 4 channels whilst the GMC-PM10D, GMC-PM20D and DCC81 and BPDCC81 are individual decoders.

[Edward]

Also using the Dcc point motors (about 50) now.  I started numbering by area ie station 1 , station 2 etc leaving a gap in the numbers in case of future changes.  Very clever I thought till I moved to control using the Alpha switches.  Of course these work in batches/sequence of 6 and you can't change the individual numbers in the sequence.  So I found annoyingly unused gaps .  Could have gone under the boards yet again and reprogrammed the Cobalts but just couln't face it! Mind you I give the system full marks especially the " one wire" approach.

Sorry got rather off topic. 

I have an AnyRail plan on the switch board at the operator's position plus I use the macro function on the NCE PowerCab for the non-Alpha groups.

 

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

26 minutes ago, Edward said:

Also using the Dcc point motors (about 50) now.  I started numbering by area ie station 1 , station 2 etc leaving a gap in the numbers in case of future changes.  Very clever I thought till I moved to control using the Alpha switches.  Of course these work in batches/sequence of 6 and you can't change the individual numbers in the sequence.  So I found annoyingly unused gaps .  Could have gone under the boards yet again and reprogrammed the Cobalts but just couln't face it! Mind you I give the system full marks especially the " one wire" approach.

Sorry got rather off topic. 

I have an AnyRail plan on the switch board at the operator's position plus I use the macro function on the NCE PowerCab for the non-Alpha groups.

 

 

 

And what about operating signals?

[Grovenor]

All this just convinces me that I was wise to keep point control out of the DCC, switches on a panel are much easier and quicker to use.

[JST]

39 minutes ago, Grovenor said:

All this just convinces me that I was wise to keep point control out of the DCC, switches on a panel are much easier and quicker to use.

 

Horses for courses. My layout is 30ft long and I have about 60 sets of points on it so I use Railmaster, a wireless mouse, monitor screens at three locations and an office chair on wheels so I can operate the whole layout from multiple locations! 

Works for me! 

On a serious note, all the points have their number written next to the motor on the underside of the baseboard as do the associated decoder ports.

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

1 hour ago, Grovenor said:

All this just convinces me that I was wise to keep point control out of the DCC, switches on a panel are much easier and quicker to use.

Switches on a panel can be used to control points (and signals) by DCC as well.

No need to remember addresses when flicking a switch or pressing a button, as the system does it for you.

The points can then be named or labelled however you want.

You can also have separate DCC control of points regardless of whether your trains are controlled by DCC or DC.

For a layout with lot of points, this would be far simpler to install and set up.

 

As for the numbering of points, on some computer control software packages and even on some DCC systems, the points can be named with any name or number you like (subject to the number of characters available).
With this facility, the actual address becomes less relevant in normal day to day operation of the layout.

 

.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Ron Ron Ron

[Edward]

20 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

And what about operating signals?

I've only got 7 Dapol semaphore signals at present. I use the Train Tech black box thingy to operate their servos.  And with more Alpha Switches  red and green to move the arms. Works well (except for one pesky Home signal that insists on going the opposite way .  Will only come off to the red button not the green one. Have rewired it again & again.  I nearly fixed it once: went the correct way. Then on next press of Alpha switch , it just made a noise, didn't move.  Next press it happily reverted to Red to pull signal off.  Unbelievable !)

[Vistisen]

Not wanting to appear to be plugging my own very sporadic blog But I have three posts on building an DCC concepts ALPHA based control panel. Which may help you avoid all the mistakes I made.

[ITG]

Vistisen - any ideas and suggestions are most welcome. I read nothing as a plug, only as suggestion and advice. I shall read and digest.

[Butler Henderson]

I use 7x numbers for semaphores only having a handful

[jpendle]

You don’t say which DCC system you will be using.

If, for example you use a Roco Z21 then you don’t need a point numbering/ addressing scheme as point and signal control is done from a mimic diagram or through route setting.

 

Regards,

 

John P

[ITG]

2 hours ago, jpendle said:

You don’t say which DCC system you will be using.

If, for example you use a Roco Z21 then you don’t need a point numbering/ addressing scheme as point and signal control is done from a mimic diagram or through route setting.

 

Regards,

 

John P

Thanks John, it’s currently a Gaugemaster Prodigy Advance 2.
As an alternative, I’m exploring using JMRI to construct an in-screen mimic diagram, and to operate points from there.

But that’s an interesting suggestion you make about the Z21; I’m not averse to changing systems if that in effect kills two birds with one stone.

I take it you use Z21? Can you suggest an useful thread or source of info so I can get an overall understanding.

ian

[jpendle]

Hi Ian,

 

There’s a thread on here “Z21 New App” or something like that. It covers a lot of detail on how the App works with the system. There’s also the Roco Z21 web page, but it is a bit basic and “salesy”, if that’s a word.

 

If you have an idevice or Android then you can download the app to take a look, it’s free.

Be careful as there are two apps available from Roco.

I would recommend the new App, Z21 on a black background, versus the older App, red DB loco, for point control, as it has better mimic diagram features.

 

Regards,

 

John P