Sommerfeldt Masts for RhB

[MichaelE]

Are the Sommerfeldt masts, #380, #389, and #381 the only masts suitable for Rhb catenary?

 

There are several part numbers that look very close to the above, but I'm afraid they may not be the correct height.

 

Has anyone used any other part numbers for RhB, or has anyone used Viessmann masts for RhB?

[MichaelE]

I received an email from EuroLokShop here in the States. They had 19 of the #389 masts in stock so I bought them all.

 

I'll get the #381 later for the curves. That mast has the pull-off.

 

Does anyone here know what the average spacing on straight sections of track is for the RhB masts?

Edited May 28, 2020 by MichaelE

[warbonnetuk]

Assuming you are not going to make your own catenary wire then you are going to be restricted to the max length wire sections that Sommerfedt do.

 

I would really recommend that you invest on the Sommerfedt manual as what you spend on that you'll save on not buying excess masts and wire

[Joseph_Pestell]

On 28/05/2020 at 17:48, MichaelE said:

I received an email from EuroLokShop here in the States. They had 19 of the #389 masts in stock so I bought them all.

 

I'll get the #381 later for the curves. That mast has the pull-off.

 

Does anyone here know what the average spacing on straight sections of track is for the RhB masts?

 

As Warbonnet says, the real distance in reality may not be possible on a model. You can gauge what the real-life distance is by looking at photos of RhB stations and counting the number of coaches between each mast. I have not done this exercise for metre-gauge models but on standard gauge, the typical distance between masts is about 75 metres, 862mm in HO, which is way longer than any model catenary wire produced. Apart from any production issues, it could not be made with enough tension to prevent the pantograph from pushing it upwards.

 

In my view, as much as one wants catenary wires on a layout, it may actually be more realistic to leave the wires out and put the posts at a proper distance from each other. This is especially true on curves which are much tighter on a layout than in real life.

 

A possible compromise is to have the wires but set the pantographs so that they do not touch the wire. That way you can have longer straight sections between posts and on the curves the wire can deviate from the track centre more than in real life.

[Joseph_Pestell]

On 28/05/2020 at 17:32, MichaelE said:

Are the Sommerfeldt masts, #380, #389, and #381 the only masts suitable for Rhb catenary?

 

There are several part numbers that look very close to the above, but I'm afraid they may not be the correct height.

 

Has anyone used any other part numbers for RhB, or has anyone used Viessmann masts for RhB?

 

I have not checked what the height of RhB catenary is but the masts and gantries don't look much lower than on standard gauge railways. This is logical enough as they still need to have the same clearance at level crossings and on the long stretches of railway that run along streets.

 

Some of the Sommerfeldt range don't come as complete masts, but post and arms separately. So you can set the height of the arms to suit you (within reason).

[MichaelE]

I have the longest interval on the HO portion of my layout at 280mm. This seems like a good distance and I guess I will use it too for RhB mast spacing. Except on curves of course.

 

I have thought about not using the wire at all, but I think it might be too much of a contrast with the HO catenary I have that does have wire.

 

Those HO locomotives have their pans fixed just below the wire. The illusion is there but not the contact.

 

I'm going to try and get my hands on that Sommerfeldt manual if I can find one here in the States. US Customs is taking way too long.

 

Thanks for the replies.

[Re6/6]

I bought one of these. https://www.euromodeltrains.com/products/Marklin/70011

 

I haven't used it yet but it does look to be very useful.

 

 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Re6/6

[Kevin M]

Michael,

 

I have had excellent service from Eurorailhobbies.com in British Columbia.  They drive their US orders to a Post Office on the Washington side of the border.  No customs problems to deal with.  Although I'm sure the virus shutdown is causing them problems getting supplies from Europe. 

[MichaelE]

I've ordered from them several times.

 

Their hours are erratic as are their business days. Shipping takes days, or weeks in some cases. 

 

I try not to order from them if I can help it. MSL is faster and cheaper and they are 3,500 miles away.

[Joseph_Pestell]

5 hours ago, MichaelE said:

I have the longest interval on the HO portion of my layout at 280mm. This seems like a good distance and I guess I will use it too for RhB mast spacing. Except on curves of course.

 

I have thought about not using the wire at all, but I think it might be too much of a contrast with the HO catenary I have that does have wire.

 

Those HO locomotives have their pans fixed just below the wire. The illusion is there but not the contact.

 

I'm going to try and get my hands on that Sommerfeldt manual if I can find one here in the States. US Customs is taking way too long.

 

Thanks for the replies.

 

I think that 280mm is horrendously short and will, of course, require a great many more masts/gantries. But if that is what you have on the HO part of the layout, it would definitely look wrong to have a longer gap on the HOm.

 

The longest commercially made wires that I know of are 420mm. But they are compound catenary which makes them a bit stiffer.

[JimFin]

Beware that the Marlikn tool is set for HO not HOm, it might not work too well.

 

Attached are a set of tools for Sommerfelds HOm I made up if you can get anyone locally to print them off for you.

 

3 height guides and 3 mast positioning guides. You need to add pins to the mast positioning guides to give you the limits of the alignment of the overhead wire. They clip into the track and set the mast position correct distance for the side.

 

Go for the longest wire lengths your track alignment allows - Sommerfeldt go up to 500mm but allow a few mm less than that for fixing.

mast alignment tool.stl

Edited May 30, 2020 by JimFin

[Joseph_Pestell]

If you stop that video at the right place, it gives the height measurements in a pic from the manual.

[MichaelE]

I have the Viessmann mast gauge. I'll have to see if it gauges HOm. It has two sets of holes on each side.

[MichaelE]

I was just at the Sommerfeldt site and discovered I could download the manual and print it out for €10 so I did. 

 

I'm still waiting for them to process the order so I can download and print it. This will be a valuable aid for this project.

[MichaelE]

And the #389 masts showed up in the post today...

 

 

40 days now in US Customs for my new Allegra...

Edited June 2, 2020 by MichaelE

[MichaelE]

I think I'm in need of some guidance here.

 

I have the entire manual now, and have been through the HOm section backwards and forwards and still cannot find any information about the pull-off's used for tight radius curves on the RhB.

 

The pull-off's I think I am referring to are pictured here. The catenary wire assembly is on it's side going around the outside of the curve. The manual is not showing this is any photo nor is it referenced in the text. 

 

I have no idea what parts I need to replicate this catenary going around a tight curve. Is this something that cannot be modeled due to physical restraints of the wire?

 

This is what I'm talking about:

 

[JimFin]

I believe that the arrangement at the Montebello Curve is a special case hence not covered in the book. The diagram at the top of page 139 shows mast 381 and 382 being used to pull off the catenary in a standard configuration.

Edited June 3, 2020 by JimFin

[MichaelE]

I did a test placement of RhB masts on the mountain line yesterday. They are not spaced correctly for the wires, but I did measure 35mm from the track centerline for placement.

 

I wanted to make certain the standard gauge locomotives would pass under the wire with an acceptable margin.

 

 

I also saved the piece of wood I cut out of the center of the (now RhB) upper loop while building the sub-roadbed, and cut out the center with an 8" margin all around. This will allow mast placement and some scenery building on the upper level. THe snow shed will be located farther down the track on the left of the photo.