Weaselfish Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 Good evening. Does anyone know what type of motor this is please? It's 4cm long, 1.5 cm deep and 1cm wide. There are no identifying marks on it at all. Any advice gratefully received. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Brit70053 Posted May 29, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 29, 2020 From the photo and the dimensions you give, I'd say that this is a classic Tri-Ang/ Hornby Xo4 or perhaps one of its derivatives. If the armature has 5 pole pieces, then its almost certainly an Airfix (MW005 I think?) which was an almost drop in replacement for the X04. The slightly chunky appearance of the brush pieces does incline me to think it is the Airfix motor. The real experts in this field will doubtless be along shortly to give you a definite ID. Regards, John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted May 29, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 29, 2020 (edited) It has an underslung brush holder so not an X04 It looks like the Airfix 5 pole variant. Something to watch out for with these X04 lookalikes is that there used to be a slot car version which was nigh on identical apart from the gauge of wire on the armature which was thicker. They were real screamers but would burn out most DCC decoders in a flash as they took up to 3A current at full pelt. The one I had I binned a while back but I still have the train version. Edited May 29, 2020 by melmerby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 (edited) Its an Airfix MW 005. Direct drop in 5 pole replacement for the X04. Just fit a worm and play. The brush diaphragm is under the pole piece on the MW 005 and over on the X04 which means the XO4 brushes won't fit but the armatures interchange. MW 005 is usually not as powerful as the XO4 but smoother. XO4 and Triang TT single start worms fit the MW 005 as do a range of Romford gears. I have an XO4 with an MW005 armature for a deliberately gutless banker and a MW 005 with an XO4 armature where there was no room for the longer XO4 brushes but I needed more power.. Edit. It looks like the same motor was sold as an MW 005 and as an Airfix MRRC 1001. Melmerby's motor is interesting, the brush diaphragm is held by a screw, and the spring is very unusual. There seems to have been a 1003 which was similar and a double ended unit which may have been a 1002. Edited May 29, 2020 by DavidCBroad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted May 29, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 29, 2020 This is my 5 pole X04 lookalike (Which I always thought was an Airfix motor but not a MW005 Note the full length brushes which are harder material than Triang's and the different spring arrangement to put more force on the brushes: This motor is more powerful than an X04 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weaselfish Posted May 29, 2020 Author Share Posted May 29, 2020 Thank you everyone, this is all very useful to know. It came with a part built Cotswold/Nu-Cast 16xx with the old solid brass chassis. I'm building it with the original chassis so I know now that the motor will at least be powerful enough to move it around. Thank you again. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 (edited) I had a bit of a dig and It looks like the Airfix MRRC 1001 was previously the M.W Developments MW 005. The shaft is the same size as the XO4. The Airfix MRRC 1002 was double ended, there was a version for 4 wheel drive racing slot cars! It looked very much like the rectangular pole piece Ks double ended motor (Mk2?) but had ugly brush gear on one side instead of the plungers of the K's. I have one of these and I thought it was a K's. The shaft is the same as the XO4 and H/D 1/2" and the armature can be used in Triang Power bogies and the H/D 1/2" motor if you trim the shaft very carefully. I did one for a H/D R1 chassis 30 odd years ago and it works very nicely. The Airfix MRRC 1003 looks like it is the Airfix Prairie motor, It has XO4 style brush gear. The Airfix N2 takes a similar motor. The 14XX motor is the same except the brushes are coil springs and plungers. These motors have a smaller shaft and I believe a larger diameter armature than the XO4 so finding gears is a pain, The magnets very crudely finished. The end housing is plastic the bearings are obviously smaller, the front bearing comes loose in the plastic housing the end float control is very poor and IMHO its pretty useless, unless used with a driveshaft and gearbox a la the 14XX.. Edited May 30, 2020 by DavidCBroad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 It can be one of two/three makes if it is a 5 pole motor with the X03 fitting If the rear mounting plate at the rear is angular (not round) then its likely to be a Romford Bulldog motor If the rear mounting point is small and round then its MW Developments 005 motor Or an Airfix- MRRC 005 motor The Airfix brushes were more shaped than the MW ones Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted May 30, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 30, 2020 OK then what's that motor I posted then? Doesn't meet any of those descriptions The other one I had was very similar but was a higher current version for slot cars and had two mounting lugs at the rear (top and bottom) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Exactly what I was wondering. Both the spring and the insulated plate which holds the brushes are different, I guess its from the same originating source to a different specification As most of the parts in all 4 types are either the same or similar, I would imagine they would come from the same source and in fact may have been used for different applications than model railways. Lets face it, the motors we use in our locos originate from other uses, and or are adapted from what it was designed for to be suitable for our purposes. Many years ago motors were rewound to either repair or improve them. Chris Gibbon (High Level) told me he sourced motors that had the correct characteristics we require, then had holes tapped to suite his gearboxes/ worms with the correct diameter size holes produced Triang/Hornby have constantly altered the motors they use as more appropriate units become available, as have other companies Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted May 30, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 30, 2020 (edited) Some more motors. From top to bottom: Genuine Triang X04 Hornby Dublo R1 Motor (this was provided with end thrust adjustment. Large motor for "K"s kits (70s series) Small motor for "K"s kits (this was in my 14XX kit and got really hot from new!) On the last two the magnets and pole pieces are glued together and the bearings are in the magnets. As mentioned there was a slot car version of the last two which was longer still, had a double ended shaft and had brass plates with the bearings in and brushes mounted on the side. This was most strange as mine still had holes punched in the side pieces where the brush mounts would have gone if it were in a K's kit! The magnets were just an interference fit and could be removed. Edited May 5, 2023 by melmerby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted May 30, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 30, 2020 17 hours ago, melmerby said: This is my 5 pole X04 lookalike (Which I always thought was an Airfix motor but not a MW005 Note the full length brushes which are harder material than Triang's and the different spring arrangement to put more force on the brushes: This motor is more powerful than an X04 It is an oddity. The frame looks 100% X04. Maybe someone in the distant past has replaced the spring gear & brushes with something else? Or perhaps it is an American Pittman motor? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted May 30, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 30, 2020 10 minutes ago, kevinlms said: It is an oddity. The frame looks 100% X04. Maybe someone in the distant past has replaced the spring gear & brushes with something else? Or perhaps it is an American Pittman motor? There are some US open frame motors listed on this site. A bit of searching by model (sorry!) might identify. http://slotblog.net/topic/53782-vintage-open-frame-motor-list-help/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted May 30, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 30, 2020 12 minutes ago, kevinlms said: There are some US open frame motors listed on this site. A bit of searching by model (sorry!) might identify. http://slotblog.net/topic/53782-vintage-open-frame-motor-list-help/ A useful list is here. http://slotblog.net/topic/41186-pittman-motors/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted May 30, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 30, 2020 I bought in new the 1970/80s probably from Bob's Models in Small Heath, where my couple of K's kits came from and some other motors and gears. The brush springs are original. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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