New Ankh Station Planning Exercise

[Edwardian]

This is a bucket list project - so no time soon - so a theoretical exercise for the time being.

 

We have a town station in, say, the 1850s.  It's freelance, to say the very least, and liberties can be taken. I am struggling to evolve a plan that is satisfactory.

 

The idea is for an 'L' shaped layout. The components I want to evolve a track plan for are a terminus with:

 

- 2 platform faces for long-distance trains - stop blocks at the right end of the layout

- 2 platform faces for suburban trains - stop blocks at the right end of the layout

- Station building at right angles to the track at the platform end

- A line coming in from the right, probably at the front of the layout. 2 platform faces and needs to connect with the main lines.

 

So, 6 platforms, the two at the front are through lines and the rear 4 have the station building across their ends.  These 6 lines will ultimately have to converge as a double-track mainline and cross a wide river bridge.

 

The through lines need to serve not just their platforms but a fish depot.

 

There needs to be a goods facility, but this can be some way off, across the river. 

 

Also across the river, and in the corner of the L will be be the MPD.  All 6 lines need easy access to a turntable, as all locos are assumed to have tenders and most traffic on the through lines will terminate and return the way it came. The turntable should also serve the shed.  In a homage to Mike Sharman's shed and the latter shed on Buckingham, it will be a roundhouse affair (not an enclosed one, as was generally UK practice, but like St Blazey).  Also, I cannot image any other project where I,m likely to get a chance to model such an arrangement.

 

 

We can be quite generous in length, perhaps 12-15'. I hope that will be enough.  Most coaches will be only around 20' long given the period. There needs to be room for some town, including a square in front of the station, station hotel etc.  I thought the fish depot might be on a kick back in front of the through lines, disguising their exit on the right.

 

So, I have a broad idea of the elements I want, but am struggling to come up with a workable track plan.

 

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.    

 

[sir douglas]

ive been doodling an early terminus also, my main research and inspiration is by studying the early termini on the old OS maps online.

 

With also reading about early termini, some stations had a arrival and departure platform arrangement, where by certain platforms only handled either arrival or departure, so the point work in the throat is arranged so an incoming train cant go to a dep' platform, similarly there isnt a straight connection between an arr' platform and the outgoing track

 

this is what ive been messing with for ages, i'm not happy with it yet but its the basics,  i still havet  firgured out the track paln for the goods yard

[Edwardian]

Thanks, Sir Douglas, that's the sort of thing I'm trying to think up.

 

Yes, I had thought of arrival and departure platforms with, perhaps, a central loco release road.

 

I hadn't thought through the idea of the departure roads configured so as to not accept an incoming train.  I'll study you plan to see if I can work out how to operate it; this really isn't a strength of mine. You must be able to get the departing stock into the departure road, however that is done.

 

It's a good looking plan.  I feel if I can understand it I will be some way towards being able to devise my own!

[Paul H Vigor]

Re designs for early railway termini:

 

Don't forget to include coach turntables in platform roads and wagon turntables in goods yards. I would suggest such turntables are an essential element when placing an historic  railway station 'in period'.

[Paul H Vigor]

BTW, Durham??

[melmoth]

Here's a link to an image on Flickr showing all kinds of early arrangements at Bristol Temple Meads:

 

https://flic.kr/p/48JhSP

 

Temple Meads (and Euston, for that matter) also had at least one traverser at the town end in the 1840s. There's a small image at the link below:

 

http://www.mybrunel.co.uk/buildings/templemeads.html

[Old Gringo]

Have you considered the original station at York, after the addtional platforms were added between the town walls?  There was also a line down to the river outside the walls.  To fit your proposed site, it would require some reduction and either the exit modified to curve to the left, or flip the whole image.

 

The station is covered in some detail in 'George Townsend Andrews of York, The Railway Architect' by Bill Fawcett, published by the North Eastern Railway Association.

 

The original engine shed was outside the town walls, first at Queen Street and later a roundhouse and more straight sheds, which became York South sheds.  Another much simpler idea would be to use something like that at Kyle of Lochalsh, or as you have suggested modify St. Blazey, with the added bonus of the small works buildings as a backdrop.  (My friends Damian and Chris created a version of St. Blazey - see the 'Diesels in the Duchy' topic in the Layouts area).

 

Hope this helps to give you some ideas.

All the very best in these trying times,

John.

 

Edit:  Having now read your O.P. properly!  Originally, the Scarborough line came into York outside the walls and trains had to reverse into the station, but you could bring the line into the station inside the walls. 

[Rivercider]

Bristol Temple Meads has already been suggested. There were loco sheds for the GWR and MR to the east, and for the B&E to the west.

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=18&lat=51.44945&lon=-2.57992&layers=117746211&b=1

 

cheers

[Grovenor]

I don't think "Suburban" existed in 1850.

[tomparryharry]

May I respectfully suggest a 'menage a homage' to both Brighton, and Crystal Palace High Level?

 

Please excuse my French, I 'ave a cold..... No, not really....

[Nearholmer]

I wonder whether you might need to do some research from primary sources to get this right, because the 1850s are a real “dark age” so far as general railway literature, maps, and photos are concerned.

 

The trouble is that, as with any young technology, designs progressed very rapidly, so that what was recorded in engravings when things were very new (1830s and 40s) and what was recorded in photographs and captured in detailed maps (mainly 1860s onwards) Might not typify what existed in between.

 

Some individual line histories have good detail - the history of the LNWR Aylesbury branch (too small for your wants, but you could multiply i suppose) has plans for several early dates.

 

I think that ‘ticket platforms’ were quite common outside termini, and that locos were sometimes unhitched there, and the train either shunted or gravitated to the stops.

 

Also, I somewhat share Grovenor’s doubts about “suburban”. There were railways to places that we would now consider suburbia (London and Greenwich being the first), but the distinction wasn’t quite the same as now - it might be two different railways with two different stations, next to one another. Thinking about that, maybe London Bridge is very close to what you want, but it might have sprouted too many appendages by the 1850s when the London and Croydon set-up camp alongside. Bricklayers Arms? That was briefly the L&C and SER terminus, so again short and long distance.

 

 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Rivercider]

53 minutes ago, Grovenor said:

I don't think "Suburban" existed in 1850.

Good point.

How about 2 platforms for regular use, and 2 excursion platforms?

 

Now I think about it an amalgamation of the layout in Weston-super-Mare 1866/1884 might provide inspiration. The 1866 terminus station was replaced by the 1884 through station, and became the goods depot, the two stations are side by side

 

edit - at W-s-M a very long excursion platform was added to the north side, extending as far as the signal box, there was a refreshment room built alongside Locking Road just to the north. 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=51.34575&lon=-2.97358&layers=117746211&b=1

 

cheers 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Rivercider
add link

[Nearholmer]

Banbury Merton Street and Oxford Rewley Road were stations that opened at the right date, then fossilised, and the structure of the latter is preserved as the main part of the Bucks Railway Centre. Books are available.

 

The 1881/85 25” OS map shows a good early plan of Banbury, with lots of wagon turntables! The single island platform there was originally very short, the same length as the train shed, and the way the TTs are arranged, I suspect that the platform roads may originally also have had TTs, but rather than being at the stops, they were just outside the train shed ....... how they would be used I can't quite fathom, maybe they were there to aid adding things like horseboxes and carriage trucks to trains prior to the engine backing down for departure, or maybe goods trains were marshalled in the passenger departure road.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Caley Jim]

This 1856 map of the original Glasgow Queen Street Station shows some of the plethora of turn tables.  Those on the line to the left allowed coaches to be stored in underground 'bays' to avoid the need for them to be taken back up the, then, rope worked incline to Cowlairs.  That track was itself accessed by wagon turntables under the roof.

 

Trains were worked up and down the tunnel by rope haulage.  At first locos were attached at the top of the incline, but later they reversed down into the station and brought the train up with assistance from the rope.  A special coupling on the front allowed the rope to be dropped at the top without stopping.

 

Jim

[wagonman]

As has been suggested, two platforms, one each for arrivals and departures, separated by a number of carriage sidings and joined by turntable, possibly at both ends, would seem to be the way to go for the 1850s. The old Bishopsgate terminus of the Eastern Counties was another that fitted that template – for a while at least.

[Edwardian]

Great suggestions and references, and some good food for thought.

 

If I were doing a real 1850s terminus it would probably be Barnard Castle or Saltburn. I'm not. Even relative to Castle Aching, this layout idea is Silly.  It may offend some, and for that I apologise. I work from the principle, however, that the more outrageous the fiction, the greater the need for a credible period feel to lend verisimilitude.  To do a silly thing well, you have to take it seriously! But, then, I'm a great fan of the Tudor Mouse Layout.

 

I'll come clean, it isn't a serious railway and it isn't even pre-Grouping, at least so far as this universe is concerned.  If and when I do something about this, it will have to find a home outside this section of the forum.

 

It's New Ankh Station, terminus of the Ankh-Morpork & Sto Plains Hygienic Railway.

 

I have always wanted to do this, and, every so often, I come across a bit of railway kit or accessory and think "that would be perfect for an AM&SPHR layout.

 

One recent opportunity was a private sale of this ....

 

 

It looks like a LNWR Crewe type.  Unfortunately, it has the appearance of a small one but the dimensions of a large one, so can never be made into an historically accurate model.  With a splasher that could probably accommodate an eight-footer, it has that degree of exaggeration that suits it to the fantasy world.

 

Now, the thing about the Disc World is everything has its most archetypal appearance.  E,g. the guards clank around in armour, the Wizards dress like Renaissance Burgomasters, Heroes carry magic swords and wear scanty leather, and vampires, of course, wear evening dress, capes and widow's peaks.

 

So, the 'period' is confused and the style eclectic, but, in general, as the books progress, Ankh-Morpork becomes less like something imagined by Robert E Howard, and more like the London of Dickens. Film and other visualisations tend to the early Victorian look.  

 

And then Dick Simnel, with his flat cap and his sliding rule, invents a viable steam railway locomotive. 

 

I had thought long and hard about an appropriate 'look' for the Disc World's railway and concluded that a broadly 1850s appearance would be a good basis, so there we are, that lead to my pondering over the station layout. 

 

"Suburban" is, indeed, a misnomer; it is intended to refer to the nearer at hand places to which stopping services run; the Sto Plains line, with its terminus at Big Cabbage.  There are through platforms at Big Cabbage, as the line extends much further to Uberwald and beyond.

 

The through platforms at Ankh come from Quirm.

 

As we intend to have arrival and departure platforms, there are 3 departure platforms:

 

Platform 1: For the express services to points beyond Big Cabbage, e.g. Lancre and Bonk.

 

Platform 2: Stations on the Sto Plains Line

 

Platform 3: Effing Forest, Aix en Pains, Quirm etc.    

 

I realise the station is on the seaward side of the city and that, viewing with the city on the backscene, I confused left and right in my initial post. 

 

I sincerely hope no one feels cheated that they have contributed to a discussion that turns out to be motivated by such a trivial idea, however, as you all know, I am also genuinely interested in the Victorian railway, so the examples cited will add to my store of knowledge, and, hence, happiness, quite independently of the needs of the bizarre fantasy project. 

 

Please feel free to discuss either real 1850s arrangements or adaptations for the Disc version.  or, indeed, both.  Some very interesting content has emerged.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Edwardian
spelling!

[tomparryharry]

You 'could' model Barnard Castle, but with all of the publicity, is it wise? Mind you, I'm told there are good opticians in Barnard Castle.....

 

Naughty, Naughty, Naughty!

[Joseph_Pestell]

1 minute ago, tomparryharry said:

You 'could' model Barnard Castle, but with all of the publicity, is it wise? Mind you, I'm told there are good opticians in Barnard Castle.....

 

Naughty, Naughty, Naughty!

 

I suppose that it must have been a terminus for a while but quite soon became a through station. It had one of those bay platforms that some people seem to be so opposed to as well as an interesting layout for a through station.

 

Would be a lovely location to model but would need a lot of space even in N.

[Rivercider]

I have never been to Disc World, so of necessity my geography is off. But I totally get your point that  the 'laws' of getting trains safely in and out without delay applies wherever in the universe the station is.

 

cheers

Edited May 30, 2020 by Rivercider
clarification

[Joseph_Pestell]

1 minute ago, Rivercider said:

I have never been to Disc World,

 

Somewhere near Wincanton. So probably served by the S&DJR.

[Edwardian]

14 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

I suppose that it must have been a terminus for a while but quite soon became a through station. It had one of those bay platforms that some people seem to be so opposed to as well as an interesting layout for a through station.

 

Would be a lovely location to model but would need a lot of space even in N.

 

[wagonman]

For Ankh Morpork I suggest you up your wagon/coach turntable quota by a factor of two at least. I'm sure young Master Simnel would see the benefit.

[Hroth]

2 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Platform 3: Effing Forest, Aix en Pains, Quirm etc.    

 

Are you going to have a goods bypass line for the Fruits De Mer expresses?

It might not be a good idea to send them through the main station, a bit fishy, if you get my drift....

Edited May 30, 2020 by Hroth

[Schooner]

3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

I'll come clean, it isn't a serious railway...

 It is if you make it so  It's an admirable goal to be serious about what is done without being serious in the way it is done...

 

3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

....it will have to find a home outside this section of the forum.

Say it isn't so!

 

3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

It's New Ankh Station, terminus of the Ankh-Morpork & Sto Plains Hygienic Railway.

I couldn't love this idea more. Looking forward to what develops in this thread (wherever it ends up) immensely

[Edwardian]

32 minutes ago, wagonman said:

For Ankh Morpork I suggest you up your wagon/coach turntable quota by a factor of two at least. I'm sure young Master Simnel would see the benefit.

 

Would love to, but how to operate?!?

 

35 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

Are you going to have a goods bypass line for the Fruits De Mer expresses?

It might not be a good idea to send them through the main station, a bit fishy, if you get my drift....

 

Au contraire mon ami, it's Fragrant Ankh-Morpork, after all!

 

I expect a pair of sidings serving the premises of Bowden Jeffries Purveyor of Fine Seaford to the Gentry to be right by the station!

 

I also want to find room for Harry King's compound and the the Heisenberg Brewery.