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Getting beyond a joke now.

4th loco to bite the dust...All Bachmann.

Class 24: On top speed will muster only a snails pace.

Class 25: Exactly the same.

Standard 5MT 73049: Dead. Just stopped and gave up the ghost.

Standard 3MT 82001: No speed at all & then gives up entirely.

 

All out of warranty, possibly 5/6 years old but none have been hammered.

Hornby/Lima etc running a dream.

 

Started to wonder whether it's because they are on my out doors railway...and too much sun?

 

Anyone else succumbed to this with Bachmann?

Chatted with Hattons where they were purchased, they advised sending them off for repair (possibly motor or electrical problems)

 

Rossi (Canary Isles)

trains.jpg

IMG_20170419_140611.jpg

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I wouldn't expect heat or sunlight to be much trouble for the mechanisms, unless regular relubrication hasn't been attended to. My experience with OO outdoors predates these Bachmann products, but Hornby mechanisms wore through the tyre plating to the brass casting, but kept going. My indoor layout has both the class 24/25 and 5MT on it, alongside other near contemporary introductions such as the WD and A1, which have accrued approaching 20 years regular operation. On some of the driven wheel tyres there's a hint of copper where they contact the railhead.

 

Operation outdoors causes significant mechanical wear because of the ever present stone dust which is abrasive. How are the driven wheel tyres? If you have worn right through the plating to the pot metal they are cast from, and there is significant wear to the pick up arrangements - both the rear of the wheel and the wipers - the electrical pick up may be very poor indeed. Just a guess on my part, but worth a look.

 

Have you tried applying power directly to the motor terminals to see if the motors are OK when they get power?

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Controller is H&M Duette.

All locos DC.

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Having been to the Canaries on a few occasions, I have noticed depending where you are on the islands north/south or east/west, some parts are very dusty. Could this have affected the Bachmann mechanisms more than the Hornby ones? I do know there can be extremes of heat especially if winds come from the western sea-board of Africa - 38° at night in mid-October - how do I know?

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

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The H&M Duette, whilst an excellent controller back in the day, is not ideal for modern can motored locos which draw less current and work much better with modern electronic controllers. Modern motors are sealed for life and need to be swapped out when the brushes are worn so it is possible that the combination of controller and plenty of running has simply worn the motor out. 

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Posted (edited)

It may be if the layout is extensive and locos can run a big mileage they are simply wearing out. Its a different world to an 16 X 2 BLT or a typical room layout when you have 25 yards plus between stations and heavy trains.  My Lima Diesels used to wear their wheels away and Hornby Coaches wore the pin points off their axles in the garden until Triffids and lesser weeds invaded and closed the line.The Duette is old school but a lot kinder to motors than the PWM types.   

I'm not that surprised the 5MT has packed up, we have one and it is so embarrassingly low geared that it  has to go everywhere flat out as its top speed is barely a scale 60MPH

The 3MT is surprising they are non split chassis and not that powerful so I can only suppose the poor thing has simply worn out, brushes possibly but I don't believe the brushes can be changed. 

 Many Hornby locos have brass bushes on the axles and replaceable brushes which give a lot longer life expectancy than many Bachmans  plated Mazak on Mazak or Steel axles on Mazak .   Probably best to stick them on eBay for spares and repair and buy some more.  Maybe change to Hornby chassis for the 24 and 25, and flog the dead chassis and Hornby body on eBay.

Edited by DavidCBroad
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One loco dying - unfortunate.

Two locos dying - unfortunate coincidence?

Three or more dying - probably something else other than the locos at fault - especially as the locos concerned are different types (albeit same manufacturer). 

Even if other locos from different manufacturers are still running, then it could still point to external influences.

 

At the end of the day - you've had 5/6 years running from them.

The 5MT and 3MT do look very dusty around the chimney base.

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I have half a dozen Bachmann Ns. All bought secondhand at least a decade ago. They are kept in an unheated stone barn all year. When it is possible in cold seasons to spend time in there to run trains, they, despite only having pickups on the drivers, are the locos that just work. Most others struggle, but not the Ns. 

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It is very old (transformer) and wondering maybe a problem using the resistance/wave switches.

I'll test out the motors with direct connections (if I can access them!)

 

PS. Yes, we do get winds from Africa, causing loads of dust, but trains never run in those times.

transformer.jpg

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On ‎01‎/‎06‎/‎2020 at 10:33, Rossi said:

It is very old (transformer) and wondering maybe a problem using the resistance/wave switches.

I'll test out the motors with direct connections (if I can access them!)

Same model that I have got as my 'vanilla DC' test supply. I keep the high resistance switched in for operating modern can motor mechanism (mainly so that they can be assessed - and worked on if necessary - for dead slow running with no feedback assistance before decoder fitting.). Leave them switched to 'full wave', typically pointless using half wave with small can motors.

 

Very easy to access the motor feeds on the diesels and 5MT. Look at the diesel circuit board, and the motor terminals are either side of the board, and you will see the wires going down to the motor. On the 5MT just apply the supply to the end terminals of the 8 pin blanking plug. (Also applicable to the diesels if they are the older 8 pin plug mechanisms.) Never had a 3MT tank to fool about with, so on your own there!

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Got into the innards of class 3MT 82001.

Direct contact onto motor and it does the same as on live track...small spurt of slow movement and then stops, maybe 2 seconds at most.

Thinking of getting a replacement motor & see what happens.

Hate these "new" motors but it looks like just a couple of soldering points to release it and exchange.

Anyone ever done one?class3MT4.jpg.0e6933b4835a3229ce49f82e5c1ca9e9.jpg

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Mmmm...:

///C:/Users/User/AppData/Local/Temp/VID-20200605-WA0001-3.mp4

 

Released motor from its holding & attached live wires. Motor runs like a dream!

Results:

wires attached to motor....perfect running.

wires attached to circuit board....perfect running.

wires attached to wheels....perfect running, then motor slows down!!!!

 

(Not sure if video is downloading correctly)

If any one is on Whatsapp I can share a video of the scenario

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Motor OK, something else causing the trouble in short.

 

Top suspect, mechanical drag. Does the motor heat up noticeably as it slows? The mention of heat in your location, I feel you need to have the keeper plate off and look at the lubricant on the axles and drive line. All gummed up with dried grease might be the trouble.  Just guesswork at a distance...

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Hi Rossi

 

I just tried the link to view the video but I then get the message saying this video is private with another message saying this action is not allowed.

 

Youtube is fully up to date on my device but will not play the video.

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Posted (edited)

Possible answer to the problem of the Standard 3MT.

Did this Youtube  video (when I say "cog" I mean "worm!")

New motor?

 

Edited by Rossi

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Tes!!!!

Me and techno stuff.

Listed as private, forgot to go public. Done now, plus next video with a possible answer to the troubles.

Stripped everything down and bit by bit got to this stage. (previous note)

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Posted (edited)

Hi Rossi

 

Just viewed both videos and from what I can tell it sounds like the bearings need some oil as they are dry

Edited by 313201

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A lot of play on the spindle and worm.

Copper terminal wants to be pushed in to increase speed.

class3MTworm.jpg

class3MTworm2.jpg

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New motor , bearings gone and the brushes worn out. Bachmann normally offer a good price and excellent service.

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Posted (edited)

Cheers micklner, resigned myself to that.

Postage to and from Canary Isles is pretty high, might just tackle the job myself.

 

Can you believe? rain stopped play...here in the Canaries.

Wall to wall blue skies an hour or so ago.

Needed the dust shifting off the railway anyway!

Edited by Rossi

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Ask them for a quote via email ,and take it from there .

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I had forgotten about the bearing.  On at least one of my Bachmann locos over the years I remember it sounding like a milling grinder and all it took was a little oil on the bearing.  Another thing I have seen reported on the forum and have experienced it myself is a faulty DCC pin board.  I cannot remember the characteristics but one solution that works for some was to cut the capacitor leads and the other, which is how I solved my particular problem was to eliminate the board and hardwire the pickups to the motor.  This has actually become my standard practice now.

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