Post lockdown easing...... Rubbish!

[MR Chuffer]

@NearholmerHold on, who wants to enter into a full fledged debating session? I don't.

 

Why am I looking to persuade anyone? Someone seemed to infer that littering was a post Covid phenomenon, this is clearly incorrect, we've had littering and bad behaviour from long before Covid.

 

This is not about railway modelling, not even remotely, so your point is? FB awaits your views... I don't.

Edited June 2, 2020 by MR Chuffer
Predictive txt, again..

[APOLLO]

We (as a family) have written 2020 off as far as holidays and day trips etc are concerned for obvious reasons. No fun if nowt's open & full of riff raff (all ages). 

 

During the recent fine weather I (we) have taken the opportunity to have daily local walks & bike rides. There's lots of canals round Wigan, the local country park (Haigh Hall) just a mile away, Also there's are lots of disused railways now mostly public footpaths and cycleways - no mud either these last few weeks. Not seen much in the way of litter etc, just folks old and young doing what we are doing, keeping to the rules also - we do miss the ice cream van after the slog up to the hall though !!!

 

Brit15

[Nearholmer]

Chuffer

 

You made an assertion which is at odds with the advice we are all asked to follow by the government, and if incorrect, has the potential to mislead people into dangerous behaviour.

 

On the other hand, If it is correct, it has the potential to open our eyes in a new and useful way.

 

All I’m asking is that you support the assertion.

 

I haven’t got to the bit where I ask you to withdraw it because you have failed to support it yet.

 

Kevin

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pirouets]

Not hard to find. Found a telegraph article but needed to sign up to read it all so is straight from him on C4 news. 

 

https://www.channel4.com/news/coronavirus-risk-to-young-people-like-a-weeks-worth-of-driving-prof-sir-david-spiegelhalter

 

 

[phil-b259]

29 minutes ago, MR Chuffer said:

@NearholmerHold on, who wants to enter into a full fledged debating session? I don't.

 

This is not about railway modelling, not even remotely, so your point is? FB awaits your views... I don't.

The Wheeltapper section of the forum exists precisely so members can discuss (or debate) non railway modelling topics if they wish.

 

Yes RMweb itself might well have been primarily set up host railway modelling chats - but it’s members do have other interests / concerns in common and its childish to insist they go elsewhere when the keep such discussions to the appropriate section of the website - particularly as you are under no obligation to read threads you dislike.

[Nearholmer]

12 minutes ago, pirouets said:

Not hard to find.

 

That is precisely what I recall Prof Spiegelhalter saying, and it bears no resemblance to the twin assertion made by Chuffer. All it says is that, if you are young, you have a low probability of dying from COVID-19, and there is astack of evidence to support that. Unless I am missing something in the newspaper reports, or Prof Spiegelhalter's blog where he explains it more clearly and at greater length, it does not say that the young have a low probability of catching it, or a low probability of passing it on.

 

Some reports do suggest that there is tentative evidence that children (up to about 12yo, when the immune system changes) might not pass it on very actively, because when they catch it their immune systems deal with it quite quickly and efficiently.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Crisis Rail]

1 hour ago, john new said:

Not only that but apparently the beach crowd egged on the idiots about to jump. I find that more worrying than the fact the jumpers went up there in the first place.

 

 

 

See post regarding nitrous ox. There may be a link. At least they will be well anaesthetised to help the NHS putting them back together. 

[MR Chuffer]

17 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

You made an assertion

It seems I have lost my first response to this post, which in essence said:

 

The government lies - 100,000 tests? Nope, in the post doesn't count.

 

14 days quarantine when arriving into the UK? When many people travel from the airport by public transport - farce.

 

Track and trace? I have a friend in the programme, total fiasco.

 

Late to testing, late to lockdown, we need leadership, not flannel: massive death numbers, compare to Germany.

 

Total lockdown? Nope, not for some, ask DC.

 

I've had Covid, why should I be imprisoned? Because the government can't manage it.

 

Spiegelhalter or Hancock, you believe what you want, I'll believe what I want, it's the modem world. 

[AY Mod]

Final warning...

 

Debates about stats and opinion will be removed and/or access to the topic removed.

 

Let's get back to rubbish.

[John M Upton]

It has to be said it has made a refreshing change not to see takeaway litter all over the place lately.  Unfortunately that won't last.

 

It really would help if the press stopped banging on about getting football back on and McDonald's et-al reopened, lately this is the issue that has come to the front whilst the virus has become yesterdays chip wrapper..

[newbryford]

Time for one of these.

 

[JDW]

35 minutes ago, MR Chuffer said:

 

I've had Covid, why should I be imprisoned? Because the government can't manage it.

 

 

Surely this is part of the problem that leads to people doing as they please, go out, socialise, and ending in scenes like the above. Too many people with an "I'm fine" attitude, coupled with too many wanting to get their opinions in about everything, leading to people becoming fed up with it all, or deciding that the rules are "wrong" so shouldn't apply. At the end of the day, you might not like or agree with how it's been done, I might not, he or she over there might not, but someone somewhere had to make a choice and reach a decision based on the information available at the time (and as much as I dislike certain politicians, I genuinely doubt that they sit around and say "well, yes, that would be the best option but actually lets do this instead").

The more people question it, start debates about how or why or when or what, the more people are going to start ignoring it. I don't much like the situation, but am staying home, not going out socialising or meeting friends (not that I'd ever be doing like some of the disgraceful and disrespectful souls above), and that message needs driving home to these idiots who are out as if there's nothing wrong. It's great that we're all entitled to an opinion and can have our say, but sometimes all that does is dilute the message, which right now really needs to be "look, you might be ok, I might be ok, but that's not going to stop you passing it on without knowing it" and we all need to step up and take a bit of responsibility for that. The cynic in me thinks that when these beach-going idiots and the others lose an elderly relative to it, they'll most likely be the ones saying that "the government" should have done something, "it's the government's fault", "it's the NHS's fault" and so on.  

Too many people seem to be moaning about their rights to go out, socialise and do as they please, too few seem to realise that with those rights come responsibilities.

Edited June 2, 2020 by JDW
Clarity

[newbryford]

Apologies to Andy Y for creating another monster. (If he doesn't have enough to do)

 

Please lock if you feel the need to do so - as subsequent Covid discussions were not the intention of the OP.

 

 

[JDW]

What has shocked me though is how many people seem so desperate to not only go to a beach or wherever, but to go to McDonalds, KFC, etc, and sit in a queue for hours to get served. I'm not sure what the answer is when it comes to the resulting rubbish, do we accept that people will do it anyway, so provide more bins etc in places they're likely to go to? Or do we not do that, because it might be seen as tacit acceptance that it is  ok to do it? Likewise toilets, do we leave them shut and have people using every bush and wall, or open them and place sanitation (and the repercussions poor sanitation has for health) above transmitting the virus?

[96701]

2 minutes ago, JDW said:

What has shocked me though is how many people seem so desperate to not only go to a beach or wherever, but to go to McDonalds, KFC, etc, and sit in a queue for hours to get served. I'm not sure what the answer is when it comes to the resulting rubbish, do we accept that people will do it anyway, so provide more bins etc in places they're likely to go to? Or do we not do that, because it might be seen as tacit acceptance that it is  ok to do it? Likewise toilets, do we leave them shut and have people using every bush and wall, or open them and place sanitation (and the repercussions poor sanitation has for health) above transmitting the virus?

It's difficult to work that one out, because it isn't just about opening facilities, it is as much about protecting those who have to service / maintain those facilities. Another first world problem is that I can't fit my car in my garage because it is filling up with rubbish that I cannot get rid of because charity shops and the local skip is shut.  At least I have a garage to store my rubbish, without one, would I employ somebody to get rid of it for me?

[JohnDMJ]

9 hours ago, Simon G said:

I got sent this photo, as a way that they try to prevent litter etc in New Zealand.  Some locals near me are planning to ask the Parish Council to erect something similar around the beach areas.

 

Generally, notices tend to be useless.

 

At my local station, a notice on the waiting room door proclaims "Waiting Room, open 06:30 to 12:30". After 12:30, people go to the door and try to open it, find it's locked, read glance at the notice then try it again just to make sure!

 

I'd half expect the above notice to be knee-deep in rubbish soon after its placement!

 

[eastglosmog]

On the theme of this thread (and on a railway theme, too). In case anyone thought littering was a recent issue, here is one from 1959 https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-i-am-a-litter-basket-1959-online

We are a messy lot.

[TheQ]

More than one Broads hire boat has returned to the yard with the burn marks on a flat surface from a portable barbeque... The only flat surface other than the deck?   The top of the gas locker....

 

We often see them floating down the river where they are thrown overboard when finished. 

There used to be rubbish bins placed round the broads, then two things happened. The Broads Authority was invented, spliting resposibility of the land side of the broads between the Authority and the local councils.

Then the definition of boat waste was changed to being industrial (the waste from a boat hire business) So the local authoriies removed most of the bins, saying it was the broads Authorities  / boat yards  responsibility.. so now we have bin bags dropped onto river banks or floating down the river..

 

Note that the age group of those hiring boats is generally higher, (except for stag and hen parties) normally parents with children and grand children.

 

Similar for fly tipping the local council introduced limits (originally 1 bin bag a week!!!_) and charges on the dumps.. it could cost over £200 if I took my landrover loaded with stuff for the dump.. Hence a massive increase in fly tipping..

 

The fault is not always 100% the people but assisted by the Authorities..

Edited June 3, 2020 by TheQ

[rockershovel]

17 minutes ago, TheQ said:

More than one Broads hire boat has returned to the yard with the burn marks on a flat surface from a portable barbeque... The only flat surface other than the deck?   The top of the gas locker....

 

We often see them floating down the river where they are thrown overboard when finished. 

There used to be rubbish bins placed round the broads, then two things happened. The Broads Authority was invented, spliting resposibility of the land side of the broads between the Authority and the local councils.

Then the definition of boat waste was changed to being industrial (the waste from a boat hire business) So the local authoriies removed most of the bins, saying it was the broads Authorities  / boat yards  responsibility.. so now we have bin bags dropped onto river banks or floating down the river..

 

Note that the age group of those hiring boats is generally higher, (except for stag and hen parties) normally parents with children and grand children.

 

Similar for fly tipping the local council introduced limits (originally 1 bin bag a week!!!_) and charges on the dumps.. it could cost over £200 if I took my landrover loaded with stuff for the dump.. Hence a massive increase in fly tipping..

 

The fault is not always 100% the people but assisted by the Authorities..

 

This is a general comment on privatisation, though. Do you not recall the chaos a few years ago, when the country came to a dead stop after a light dusting of snow overnight, because the contract structure made no effective provision for calling out the gritting and snowplough services? 

[TheQ]

2 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

 

This is a general comment on privatisation, though. Do you not recall the chaos a few years ago, when the country came to a dead stop after a light dusting of snow overnight, because the contract structure made no effective provision for calling out the gritting and snowplough services? 

Nope because that's still yellow council gritters round here..

[Ben B]

Have to agree; I'd already noticed an increase in fly-tipping during the worst of the lockdown (I live in the Worth Valley, and people seem to treat the Worth as a flowing tip at the best of times, and just drop crap over the walls into the river).  But last week I took the kids for a walk to Damems, and on top of the fly-tipping (including a whole bloody bed, complete with mattress!) there were burn-marks from campfires, loads of ditched cider and vodka bottles, mini gas cylinders... at least no syringes (they're usually in the churchyard near their primary school in 'normal' times).  Some poor sod is keeping the place tidy though; we didn't have any bags with us, but thought we'd come back with a bin liner on the next day, but when we did someone had beaten us to it and cleaned it up.  The who'd been there trashing the place only have one path to access the riverbank where the campfire had been, and you have to pass a bin to get out of the place.  Same mentality I suppose as to why the Worth Valley is dog-crap city, a messy minority just cannot be arsed cleaning up.

[Crisis Rail]

1 hour ago, JohnDMJ said:

 

Generally, notices tend to be useless.

 

At my local station, a notice on the waiting room door proclaims "Waiting Room, open 06:30 to 12:30". After 12:30, people go to the door and try to open it, find it's locked, read glance at the notice then try it again just to make sure!

 

I'd half expect the above notice to be knee-deep in rubbish soon after its placement!

 

 

Back to domestication issues.

 

I have booked an appointment online from 11:30 to 12:00 at my local council recycling depot  - council as in council tax funded and paid by us.

A few bits to get rid off  -  and no half finished disastrous attempted layouts for a refreshing change

As a side note in that half hour  - apparently  - only one type of refuse is permitted and users will not be assisted by staff or free to

"wander around the site" to recycle other types of refuse into different skips.

 

Like most I dislike fly tipping there is enough on the rural roads near us at the moment.

 

Yes the well being of employees of course - all 3 of us in this household are "key workers"  (and hardly haven't had a "day off")  But the council creates the temptation and is there any wonder why we see the pictures like the one above?

 

Ian

 

 

Edited June 3, 2020 by Crisis Rail

[Killybegs]

It was probably not surprising that when the free rubbish disposal centres in Northern Ireland closed during the lock down, the amount of fly tipping in the border counties in the Republic rose dramatically. It's amazing how much more you notice when out on the bike, travelling slower, higher viewpoint and time to look around.

 

I look after litter collection at our local beach on behalf of Tidy Towns. We have bags into which most people put their litter, as we gave up on them taking any notice of the Take Your Litter home signs. A couple of years ago,  instead of clearing up at the end of the day or the following morning, I started collecting litter while people were still there. Not only did I receive a lot of comment, not all of it pleasant, but people were surprised when I explained that it was done on a voluntary basis as it was not down to the council to clean up after them. Since then things have generally got better. Those using the beach during the day now clear up nearly all of their litter. Our biggest problem are the evening revelers who leave their bottles, disposal barbecues and discarded clothing for us to pick up. 

Edited June 3, 2020 by Killybegs
correction

[big jim]

Our tip Is open in crewe and I’ve been past it a few times and found no queue, they have set up a set of traffic lights on the road outside and if your going into the tip you wait inside the cones while normal traffic passes by through the lights 

 

they have a system of odd and even numbers on your reg no, going by your last number on your reg plate,  today for example is odd numbers, so I can take my 53 or 55 plate car

 

a few weeks back I actually bought myself a small high sided trailer off eBay for £120 that I’ve been slowly filling with bigger bits of junk that wouldn’t go in various collected bins such as odd cuts of wood, broken office chair, polystyrene from appliance deliveries, old paint tins etc and I’m just waiting to go to the tip when i can be bothered, ive has to apply for a free permit to allow me to take the trailer there but I think it’s actually just below the size I need one for but better to be safe than sorry than be turned away

[APOLLO]

Anyone else got this book ?

 

Brit15