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DJ Models: company wound-up and liquidation closed


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11 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

You're absolutely right; nothing can be changed but it's illuminating to see the deluded mindset of blaming everyone else for it persisting; from him just as much as anyone else. Although the accounts may be finalised, whilst he points the finger elsewhere it's only balanced that it gets pointed back in case he ever has the temerity to resurface and cause any further losses in some form.

Deluded or simple brushing off any blame, we've had the Narcissistic tendency highlighted before.

 

I doubt he will be back again, he burnt bridges with both potential employers and with customers (twice).

 

But in case he does try again, can I suggest the following names:

  • DeludedDave
  • DismalDave
  • WasntMeDave
  • DebtorDave
  • DeceptiveDave 
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I wonder if a possible creditor could include himself. I know there was 40k in form of a loan to some party, crowdfunders, don't appear to number more than a few hundred, either that or the vast bulk never put a claim in. Lets say 500 at £200 each = 50K, it still leaves a big gap.

It could be what was owed to factories.

 

His business started off with a healthy load of commissions : Kernow, Hattons even some chaps in Dublin to name a few. He could not have asked for a  better start. If he was not making a profit in the first 2 years (not really clear from everything published TBH), then he should have known the business wasn't going to work.

 

He  first came with a huge program, more akin to giant like Bachmann, many had CADS (wasn't it just a few months between leaving Dapol and starting up solo? If so, how did he get his research and CADs done so fast? and why was he so slow later?). But clearly his finances seem limited to just one program at a time (plus the odd wagon). Year 2 saw more announcements and the class 71 Crowd funder. It seems the latter at least went over the line when Hattons added their versions and the orders for the austerity from Hattons and others were not small either. 

Again a healthy situation, his business should have been floating like a dream.

 

Then we hit the years whereby the commissions went away, the programs dragged on, and the locos running qualities (I have 6+ of them) had various issues (only the O2s have been Ok with me, the others just don't like my layout or wore out quickly). And a whole bunch of crowdfunding projects started to appear.  Again the scale was immense, there were never resources to complete the original program, supporting all these crowd funding projects was not going to be easy either.

 

We are now into year 4/5, and clearly something is wrong. It must have been obvious to him that the ship was sinking. But still digs in further, more projects on top of a load of projects which were barely advancing if at all. In the last year, he  very keenly jumps into the APT project. A huge project with no hope of delivery, has all the orders and funds handling transferred away from a shop to him directly (I wonder why?), more woes as the site, paypal, the accountants etc etc cave in.  

 

He planted flags in many lands that he could not hold. Other makes quickly filled them. Leading to the IP story in the final dying days of the company. A last desperate and rather pointless hope to try and show he was in the driving seat and if others wanted to take it, he really believed that all this could make others pay.  Bit like hiring a taxi to take you to the airport only 2 hours later, you have not left your own drive way. Would you pay to drive the car instead?

 

I don't know what to think. He clearly had strong influencing skills until he disillusioned people. But seemed out of touch with reality. Over promising and under delivering and certainly jumping into far too many programs for which he had little chance of delivery. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

You're absolutely right; nothing can be changed but it's illuminating to see the deluded mindset of blaming everyone else for it persisting; from him just as much as anyone else. Although the accounts may be finalised, whilst he points the finger elsewhere it's only balanced that it gets pointed back in case he ever has the temerity to resurface and cause any further losses in some form.

There is an old saying 'once bitten twice shy' but in this case followers of the model railway hobby have so far been bitten twice.  And any sort of reminder which helps folk in the hobby avoid a third potential bite is not to be ignored in my view.

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47 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

has all the orders and funds handling transferred away from a shop to him directly (I wonder why?),

 

IIRC this was after Kernow had to refund deposits at their cost (which would not have been a small amount) for one of the projects which stalled (class 17?)   I think Durham Trains of Stanley saw this and realised they couldn't carry the risk should the APT fail.  Probably one of the best business decisions they will ever make. 

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I think Kernow was the Class 74?

 

Anyway, we seem to be picking over the carcass of this dead horse to the point where there can't be much left now.

 

Maybe it is time to give it a decent burial and put it out of our collective miseries?

Edited by John M Upton
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2 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

picking over the carcass of this dead horse to the point where there can't be much left now.

 

Believe me, there's plenty more Findus Lasagnes still in it.

 

59 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

Probably one of the best business decisions they will ever make. 

 

A lucky escape rather than an informed strategy I'd say as it played out in a particular way. It was at this point I absolutely flipped with Dave as I was watching the money trail.

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At the APT stage the alarm bells were well and truly ringing.

 

The losses as recorded by the liquidator are not the whole story as has been mentioned - little or no book keeping, the Paypal saga etc. I believe the total is higher. Lots of money accumulated and very little to show for it in terms of products, pre production samples or toolings.  Others have shown that crowd funded projects can be successful if properly managed. However I still believe there is a huge gaping hole in the accounts. Factories were not paid so where did the money go? I have my suspicions.

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22 hours ago, Markwj said:

Bet you he is reading this thread though!

 

Quite possibly. Should we not perhaps bear this in mind?

 

I hope he isn't reading. There is a rather nasty atmosphere.

 

I appreciate that some will feel aggrieved if they have lost their deposits for those models that they applied to and in my opinion, probably have every right to voice their thoughts on this. I don't understand the business side of things, I have plenty enough to worry about already, and accept that he has clearly made some bad decisions, but I doubt he ever meant any harm when he was trying to produce model trains for us to enjoy.

 

Some of these comments are pretty direct and personal in a way that is usually discouraged on this forum. Given that this man has staked a good reputation of designing models and his own career and finances (yes, again, accepting it affected other people financially too) to try to fill holes in the market that we wanted filling, and seems to have lost it all in a very public way, I'm not surprised that he is acting in a defensive manner. Perhaps he is embarrassed or in denial? He'll certainly be upset about it.

 

I don't know Dave, though it appears that many of you do. I only ever had dealings with him online and he was always swift to reply, courteous and helpful. Perhaps that isn't the same experience that others have had on this forum, and in a way, I hope it isn't because it would go some way to explaining why so many seem so excited to kick a man who has seemingly lost it all.

 

Only a few weeks ago there was vociferous defence of a model advertised as 'museum quality' that didn't quite live up to others' expectations in terms of design or quality control. Those who were not satisfied were told that compromise is to be accepted, and were reminded that the design and production process were difficult, whilst being asked not to point out the errors that had already been pointed out. Yet now there is open mocking of an actual individual human being, with clear hope that he is reading the less than pleasant words. 

 

Something doesn't feel quite right about that.

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4 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

Believe me, there's plenty more Findus Lasagnes still in it.

 

 

A lucky escape rather than an informed strategy I'd say as it played out in a particular way. It was at this point I absolutely flipped with Dave as I was watching the money trail.

Are you suggesting there is more to discover in this particularly sorry tale (lasagne comment)  and what was Dave"s reaction to the 'flip'?

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17 hours ago, AY Mod said:

in case he ever has the temerity to resurface and cause any further losses in some form.

Unfortunately Andy, I think we both know that's more than likely going to happen. This crook has proved it time and time again.

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12 hours ago, Torn-on-the-platform said:

 

Quite possibly. Should we not perhaps bear this in mind?

 

I hope he isn't reading. There is a rather nasty atmosphere.

 

I appreciate that some will feel aggrieved if they have lost their deposits for those models that they applied to and in my opinion, probably have every right to voice their thoughts on this. I don't understand the business side of things, I have plenty enough to worry about already, and accept that he has clearly made some bad decisions, but I doubt he ever meant any harm when he was trying to produce model trains for us to enjoy.

 

Some of these comments are pretty direct and personal in a way that is usually discouraged on this forum. Given that this man has staked a good reputation of designing models and his own career and finances (yes, again, accepting it affected other people financially too) to try to fill holes in the market that we wanted filling, and seems to have lost it all in a very public way, I'm not surprised that he is acting in a defensive manner. Perhaps he is embarrassed or in denial? He'll certainly be upset about it.

 

I don't know Dave, though it appears that many of you do. I only ever had dealings with him online and he was always swift to reply, courteous and helpful. Perhaps that isn't the same experience that others have had on this forum, and in a way, I hope it isn't because it would go some way to explaining why so many seem so excited to kick a man who has seemingly lost it all.

 

Only a few weeks ago there was vociferous defence of a model advertised as 'museum quality' that didn't quite live up to others' expectations in terms of design or quality control. Those who were not satisfied were told that compromise is to be accepted, and were reminded that the design and production process were difficult, whilst being asked not to point out the errors that had already been pointed out. Yet now there is open mocking of an actual individual human being, with clear hope that he is reading the less than pleasant words. 

 

Something doesn't feel quite right about that.

I'm sorry, but you are way off the mark with your assumptions. This character has proved time and time again  through failed projects, pie in the sky promises, and many many other failings that these are not just unfortunate errors or poorly timed business decisions. He knew what he was doing. Believe me there are many in the trade who would like some time alone in a locked room with this individual. 

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14 hours ago, Torn-on-the-platform said:

 

Quite possibly. Should we not perhaps bear this in mind?

 

I hope he isn't reading. There is a rather nasty atmosphere.

 

I appreciate that some will feel aggrieved if they have lost their deposits for those models that they applied to and in my opinion, probably have every right to voice their thoughts on this. I don't understand the business side of things, I have plenty enough to worry about already, and accept that he has clearly made some bad decisions, but I doubt he ever meant any harm when he was trying to produce model trains for us to enjoy.

 

Some of these comments are pretty direct and personal in a way that is usually discouraged on this forum. Given that this man has staked a good reputation of designing models and his own career and finances (yes, again, accepting it affected other people financially too) to try to fill holes in the market that we wanted filling, and seems to have lost it all in a very public way, I'm not surprised that he is acting in a defensive manner. Perhaps he is embarrassed or in denial? He'll certainly be upset about it.

 

I don't know Dave, though it appears that many of you do. I only ever had dealings with him online and he was always swift to reply, courteous and helpful. Perhaps that isn't the same experience that others have had on this forum, and in a way, I hope it isn't because it would go some way to explaining why so many seem so excited to kick a man who has seemingly lost it all.

 

Only a few weeks ago there was vociferous defence of a model advertised as 'museum quality' that didn't quite live up to others' expectations in terms of design or quality control. Those who were not satisfied were told that compromise is to be accepted, and were reminded that the design and production process were difficult, whilst being asked not to point out the errors that had already been pointed out. Yet now there is open mocking of an actual individual human being, with clear hope that he is reading the less than pleasant words. 

 

Something doesn't feel quite right about that.

 

I'm sorry but the maker of the "nasty atmosphere" is the person  who took folks money and didn't provide the goods .

 

BR Blue in the post pretty much states it as it is . Inadequate bookkeeping . The liquidator did his bit to satisfy his legal obligations , but I suspect this is not the full story . We really still don't know how much money in totality was involved and more importantly where it went.  I'd have hoped he would have been reported for failure to keep proper books and records , but this hasn't been done. Maybe there's just not enough proof . Still have this feeling he got away with it

 

 

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18 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

IIRC this was after Kernow had to refund deposits at their cost (which would not have been a small amount) for one of the projects which stalled (class 17?)   I think Durham Trains of Stanley saw this and realised they couldn't carry the risk should the APT fail.  Probably one of the best business decisions they will ever make. 

 

It was the class 74, I had one or order. But was very relieved the day Kernow did us all a big favor after so many years of little action. Partly from the money point of view (they really did not need to give us  extra points to spend... but what integrity the shop has) and partly because the 71 was not really a practical loco on the layout (DJMs 71 constantly derailed with the stiff no down play bogies, while Hornby's would run anywhere and romp away with anything, even the complex Kernow Bulleid diesel runs flawlessly on my layout).  And I was not keen on having 2 useless models.

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19 minutes ago, petethemole said:

 

Your post appears to have been removed.

 

Very quickly... It wasn't there Monday when I looked for it.

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