DJ Models: company wound-up and liquidation closed

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, TomJ said:

Don’t stop please! I’m on lockdown at home and this is provide today’s reading. Keep it coming!

Regrettably you can't see some of what really mattered - such as his posts of his photos of aircraft or at various events which clearly showed that he wasn't where some people implied he might be (or indeed where he said he was) and that he wasn't doing what he said he was going to do on a particular day.  Alas I can't now find online his holiday pictures either however I can readily conclude that not a lot of people, even those with pretty good above average salaries, could afford a holiday in the Galapagos Islands which was one place he definitely visited on holiday.  Of course the fact that he took very expensive holidays is not an indication of where the money was coming from and should not necessarily be taken as such.

 

Never forget that with very little effort it is not difficult to ascertain quite a lot from the trail people (inadvertently?)  leave on readily accessible websites which are open to anyone who cares to look at them. 

[Oldddudders]

6 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Never forget that with very little effort it is not difficult to ascertain quite a lot from the trail people (inadvertently?)  leave on readily accessible websites which are open to anyone who cares to look at them. 

Particularly those for whom adulation is a drug, so being in swanky places and being seen achieving great things are a must. Social media encourage and enable such recognition. My previous reference to narcs refers. 

 

I met the man once, at an RMweb Taunton Day. He breezed up and offered me a loco to examine. This was the Class 71, which on first look seemed full of detail and just fine - as most contemporary models do if you haven't got a photo of the real thing alongside. But the cab handrails looked basic - like extended staples - so I mentioned them. He said they would be sorted out for the final version. They were not. Glib liar. 

[spamcan61]

4 hours ago, CUCKOO LINE said:

It does make you wonder though if he really had all the commitments he claimed to APT, but I guess we will never know.

I doubt it; heck a full fat APT available in a multitude of variations in two scales, that must be several hundred thousand bucks in development costs I should think, that would've taken a heck of a lot of commitments.

[AY Mod]

3 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Particularly those for whom adulation is a drug, so being in swanky places and being seen achieving great things are a must.

 

Combining these traits I received a pearler via email* back in 2017...

 

Quote

Can you do me a favour please? I dont have internet access* or I'd post myself. Am currently on holiday in the Caribbean visiting amongst others Cuba, Mexico, Grand Cayman, and Jamaica**.
We now have official word that 3 hurricanes are now about, 1 heading west from Mexico, Irma that will hit Cuba Friday when we arrive there, and another following Irma from the east. Flights are being cancelled, shipping re-routed etc etc and apart from destination changes we are unsure when some of all this will hit us. So could you please let rmwebbers know I'm not going to be able to reply to questions for at least another week when hopefully I'll be home?

 

I explained, bluntly, that I wasn't his PA.

 

*Never one to notice the material inconsistencies.

 

** Maybe the promised book was a travel guide?

 

 

[Torn-on-the-platform]

2 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

I appreciate that if you're on the fringe it may seem somewhat brutal but the strength of feeling is because this was not just an instance of misfortune, adverse circumstances and best efforts being insufficient to succeed. 

 

Thank you, Andy. My reply to the other replies (Legend and blueeighties) was going to touch on this point before you acknowledged it. Indeed, I am very much on the fringe and do not know the ins and outs of it. My comments were based on my reading and interpretation of the information within the thread as well as my previous experience of DJM.

 

There are clearly contributors to this thread who are party to more detail, as has been reference frequently but rarely evidenced. I assume that this information would not necessarily be appropriate for publication on the forum and it is therefore understandable that it remains outside of the public domain. However, it does leave those of us without insider knowledge trying to draw conclusions from the innuendo and riddles, so please forgive my initial scepticism.

 

I still stand by my point that we need to be careful how we talk about individuals on a public forum. In my line of work, I am looking after an ever increasing amount of anxiety and other mental health conditions. I have seen the damage that internet comments can do.

 

Edit: since I started typing this, more info about holidays/aircraft shows have been mentioned, providing useful context.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Torn-on-the-platform

[atom3624]

I remember Irma hitting Mexico - we've an office site there ... hit quite hard!!

 

Al.

[pheaton]

17 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Combining these traits I received a pearler via email* back in 2017...

 

 

I explained, bluntly, that I wasn't his PA.

 

*Never one to notice the material inconsistencies.

 

** Maybe the promised book was a travel guide?

 

 

if he had no internet......

 

how did he send you that email?

[cctransuk]

1 minute ago, pheaton said:

if he had no internet......

 

how did he send you that email?

 

*Never one to notice the material inconsistencies.

 

John Isherwood.

 

[Widnes Model Centre]

2 hours ago, TomJ said:

Don’t stop please! I’m on lockdown at home and this is provide today’s reading. Keep it coming!

 

If we can help you in anyway, l am thinking maybe a box of popcorn, soft drink, comfy seat near the aisle?

[two tone green]

‘I still stand by my point that we need to be careful how we talk about individuals on a public forum. In my line of work, I am looking after an ever increasing amount of anxiety and other mental health conditions. I have seen the damage that internet comments can do’.

 

Do you think DJ thought about the impact his actions were having on others. I suspect not. 
 

Why should we consider his state of mind in that case. 

[Colin_McLeod]

3 hours ago, petethemole said:

 

Your post appears to have been removed.

 

I am interpreting that as the answer. 

 

If it annoyed him enough to ask to have it removed then that's a result in itself.

[woodenhead]

10 minutes ago, two tone green said:

‘I still stand by my point that we need to be careful how we talk about individuals on a public forum. In my line of work, I am looking after an ever increasing amount of anxiety and other mental health conditions. I have seen the damage that internet comments can do’.

 

Do you think DJ thought about the impact his actions were having on others. I suspect not. 
 

Why should we consider his state of mind in that case. 

Actually we should, for our own good as all we are doing on this thread is going round the same points we did 12 months ago and not really moving on, it's like a sore we cannot help but pick.

 

We don't know his motivations and I am happy to sit on the fence whether or not his actions were deliberate or accidental, whether he was scheming or incompetent in the absence of any proof either way.

 

The only thing we need to remain vigilant of is another attempt by him to set up a business as he doesn't appear to be fit and proper to run another one.

[Clearwater]

10 minutes ago, two tone green said:

‘I still stand by my point that we need to be careful how we talk about individuals on a public forum. In my line of work, I am looking after an ever increasing amount of anxiety and other mental health conditions. I have seen the damage that internet comments can do’.

 

Do you think DJ thought about the impact his actions were having on others. I suspect not. 
 

Why should we consider his state of mind in that case. 

 

Merely because one person does not consider the views of others doesn't mean that other people should stoop to his level and not consider feelings.  Words about kicking a man when he is down come to mind... 

 

I'm not defending DJ, never knowingly met him.  I feel a huge amount of empathy for the likes of @AY Mod et al who had to put up with way more than most. 

 

To me, there is a difference between analysing DJM's business practices and failings and attacking him personally.  Let's stick to the former and hope our small industry learns from it and applies the lessons in the future.

[Colin_McLeod]

23 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

 

The only thing we need to remain vigilant of is another attempt by him to set up a business as he doesn't appear to be fit and proper to run another one.

 

If there is another one then various threads such this one could be used to inform.

[irishmail]

21 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

Luton?

Was never warm and sunny when I lived there.  lol...   

[tomparryharry]

1 hour ago, Widnes Model Centre said:

 

If we can help you in anyway, l am thinking maybe a box of popcorn, soft drink, comfy seat near the aisle?

 

A big bucket of toffee popcorn please, and a couple of hot dogs.

 

Diet Coke though; gotta watch my weight.......

[Mel_H]

1 hour ago, two tone green said:

‘I still stand by my point that we need to be careful how we talk about individuals on a public forum. In my line of work, I am looking after an ever increasing amount of anxiety and other mental health conditions. I have seen the damage that internet comments can do’.

 

Do you think DJ thought about the impact his actions were having on others. I suspect not. 
 

Why should we consider his state of mind in that case. 

 

I think that this thread is proving very helpful for those who lost money etc, and our chatter is helping to provide some closure, perhaps?  I was fortunate and after the PayPal fiasco on the APT, didn't order direct. And, I only ordered the APT because of Durham Trains' involvement as I thought that would provide a degree of 'safety' as they would keep Dave Jones on the 'straight and narrow' and focussed. Sadly, they weren't able to.

 

As I said some pages ago, Dave was the architect of his own misfortune in many ways - a big one being his refusal/denial - of accepting help when offered.

 

His IP 'rant'*  - which was deliberately poking the tiger to prompt a reaction - at the end was a classic.  If he does indeed suffer from mental health problems, then the all undertakings he took on were more than even the most capable in our business could manage.

 

The underlying problem was his failure to deliver.

 

The brand's launch was a success as it rode on the coat-tails of the 4mm Dapol Western - which he gave the impression that he 'designed'. Clearly, we now know that he didn't 'design' anything, but acted as a [mercurial] project manager for those who did (in China). 

 

Sadly, despite claiming to be 'setting higher standards' his attention to detail was poor, right from the off when the wagon he 'designed' for FTG (Filling The Gap) Models had incorrect couplings, which meant it derailed. Happily that was fixed on later runs, and the tooling is still available, it appears.

 

Worse, he refused to accept any failings with his models.

 

We will never know the full story (and if he ever wrote the book, it would need a 'translator' given his poor command of written English, another area on which he was helped, accepted it, but then promptly ignored the assistance), but this thread is helping us to piece it together.

 

For those who have lost interest and think this thread should be wound up, there are many other threads on RMweb to enjoy (certainly hundreds, maybe even thousands?). Nature takes its course on RMweb threads - eventually people stop posting. I think that's what shoudl happen here.

 

Finally....

 

It was Dave Jones who decided to set up on his own. It was Dave Jones that made lots of promises in return for people's cash. It was Dave Jones who wasn't transparent. It was Dave Jones who denied all claims of 'vapourware'. It was Dave Jones that people put their trust into. No-one asked Dave Jones to do this.

 

Happily, the gaps are being filled, with the party being filled by many new suppliers. One day, we'll get a 74 etc... (and the other promises) from someone else, I'm sure! Maybe, one day, even RTR 3mm.

 

* The IP rant was where he claimed that anything he had 'designed' to his super-high standards, he therefore owned all IP, meaning no-one else could make a model. You can imagine the swift reaction that came from Hornby.  Now that's a letter for the archives!

[adb968008]

On the way into London Bridge, there is some graffiti painted onto the wall, on the right hand side as you approach the station from the south. it was painted there on overnight of April 8th / April 9th 2013...

 

it reads..

 

The witch is dead but the spell remains.

 

Some how it resonates here..

[spamcan61]

1 hour ago, irishmail said:

Was never warm and sunny when I lived there.  lol...   

Nor me, and I was born and bred there ;-)

[Chris M]

A friend of mine paid some cash up front for a class 17. When that project went belly up he naturally wanted his money back. DJ persuaded my friend to use that cash as deposit for the king instead of having a refund. Sounded reasonable at the time.....

[spamcan61]

The way I look at it the longer this thread is, and the more his name is mentioned, the more chance there is that future Googlers may find it before investing in his next venture. It may confuse those researching early David Bowie or The Monkees but nevermind.

Edited June 9, 2020 by spamcan61

[Widnes Model Centre]

6 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

The way I look at it the longer this thread is, and the more his name is mentioned, the more chance there is that future Googlers may find it before investing in his next venture. It may confuse those researching early David Bowie or The Monkees but nevermind.

 

Now I’m a Believer..... not a trace of doubt in my mind...

[Willie Whizz]

3 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

If there is another one then various threads such this one could be used to inform.

 

Given the number of people who still surface from time to time having fallen for the lures of the Coopercraft website despite the threads in the 'Smaller Suppliers' section on RMWeb, I wouldn't put too much money on that hope ....

[BR Blue]

Definitely Spamcam61. The more Dave Jones is mentioned in connection with this matter the better. I have heard a few things from multiple independent people who had dealings with Dave Jones. I cannot prove any of it but I believe it to be true. There are too many similar stories.  As well as the snake-oil sales man there was a nasty side.  The narcissist label does appear to fit.  I can definitely see him doing  something like this again. I spoke to him a few times and I always felt uneasy about him. I only learnt of his past exploits in his N gauge resprays more recently. As regards his holidays, there were multiple annual holidays which were illustrated for all to see on various photography sites. For most of the time DJM was running he had no other employment so ....

I wonder how much a prime-ministerial award winning modeller would earn in a year?

[-missy-]

58 minutes ago, BR Blue said:

I wonder how much a prime-ministerial award winning modeller would earn in a year?

 

That has always intrigued me. Can anyone shed any light on that statement he made? I have never found anything related to it.

 

M.