DJ Models: company wound-up and liquidation closed

[Geoff Endacott]

1 hour ago, BWsTrains said:

From reading the sad and sorry end to this drawn out saga I can only conclude that “the man” had such intense and unshakable belief in his own abilities viz. that if he was only given enough time (and money of course), he’d be able to prove same to everyone. The “legend” would be vindicated, he’d show everyone.

 

Just as well he wasn't doing anything important like running a major economy.

 

(I can't mention who it reminds me of because that would be too political.)

 

Geoff Endacott

[AY Mod]

23 minutes ago, CUCKOO LINE said:

Yes they were required to pay before shipment and if I remember correctly to raise some cash they gave the option to pay before shipping offering a discount as an incentive.

 

I feel comfortable saying now that this was a good move by Kernow for the customers of that particular project (Gate Stock) as a means of resolving (yet another) cock-up aggravated by you know who necessitating Kernow taking hold of what he should have already done. I know Chris had a very, very frustrating time of it and we owe him thanks. No wonder DJM lost future work after it.

[Oldddudders]

2 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

I feel comfortable saying now that this was a good move by Kernow for the customers of that particular project (Gate Stock) as a means of resolving (yet another) cock-up aggravated by you know who necessitating Kernow taking hold of what he should have already done. I know Chris had a very, very frustrating time of it and we owe him thanks. No wonder DJM lost future work after it.

And Chris’s approach to those of us who - most unusually in my case - had pre-ordered was courteous and informative. We were told the facts and many of us were happy to respond as he hoped. An object lesson in customer relations when things are difficult. 

[Brinkly]

13 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

No wonder DJM lost future work after it.

 

 

 

[AY Mod]

9 minutes ago, Brinkly said:

 

 

 

 

[Brinkly]

Just now, AY Mod said:

 

 

I'm not even going to ask how you got that photo!!! 

[John M Upton]

I would love to have been a fly on the wall watching Dave when the EFE Rail announcement broke!!!

 

It gives me just a little pleasure to know that soon I can have a Class 17 and he won't see a penny of my money....

[pete_mcfarlane]

4 hours ago, pheaton said:

earlier on though if you took a squinted overview it did look like the capitol from one project was funding the milestones of another...

George Hudson would approve. 

[TomJ]

5 hours ago, John M Upton said:

I would love to have been a fly on the wall watching Dave when the EFE Rail announcement broke!!!

 

It gives me just a little pleasure to know that soon I can have a Class 17 and he won't see a penny of my money....

Crying into his Prime Minister’s cup whilst quarantined on the Galápagos Islands  

[The Johnster]

On 13/08/2020 at 15:24, The Stationmaster said:

I wonder why he had that impression when the factory had not only stopped work on anything else they were doing for him (hence the Class 92 had to be started again with a different factory) plus they were reportedly after a large outsanding debt.  Maybe him talking about another batch of Mermaids was inspired by something like this -

 

Something fishy going on?

[The Johnster]

On 13/08/2020 at 18:48, Colin_McLeod said:

In other words: a wing and a prayer

It is a fact of life that the sort of people who go into business, any business, are optimists who believe they can make a 'go', and a living out of the profits of, it.  They have positive mindsest, are risk takers, (as are those who invest in them) and self belief, or they wouldn't do it.  They have the idea, do as much research and arithmetic as they can to back it up (in some cases perhaps with insufficient critical examination of the results), and take the results to venture capitalist or bank for a loan to set themselves up and start whatever it is that they are going to do.  

 

This point is where future problems can be rooted IMHO,  The venture capitalist is not expert in the business, but he/she is expert in 'business', and the business' owner inevitably regards the fact that he has been given a capital loan as validation of the potential success and profitability of his venture,  So far so good, but there are personalities (and business personalities tend to be strong and assertive ones to begin with) who do not fully understand that the venture capitalist is taking a punt on the success of their venture, not endorsing it with a guarantee of success.  

 

The venture capitalist, has capital invested in more than one business and will thrive so long as his spread is with enough profitable successful businesses to outweigh any that do not come through with the goods; in other words, he accepts a degree of loss philospophically as the result of his having taken a risk; it's just how life is in the business world and he puts it down to experience, noting not to let this particular business or businessman have any more of his money; he is philosophical, not stupid.  

 

But the company owner, who is remember an optimist, takes it personally.  So when things start going wrong. his self belief will not allow him to give up when he should; he becomes a little arrogant, he's got something to prove now.  He takes on more orders, and borrows more money, to get him through the bad patch which is in fact terminal.  As matters gets worse, his arrogance grows and his level of denial of his problems, which are beginning to look even to him like failure (a thing utterly unconscionable to him) increases.  We are now in a self replicating spiral of events in which each event predictably to everybody except the bloke in charge propagates the next and the business has become a money hole, proceeding on a broken wing and an unanswered prayer.  As the navvies used to say, when you're in a hole, stop digging, but people like this do not have that sort of psychological make-up, and can't, and the final collapse is better faced sooner than later.  You can't run anything with 10p in the bank.

 

It will be difficult for socialists like me and for anyone who has lost cash or models, or had their time wasted, but we should feel a little pity for Dave, especially if he accepts at least some psychological responsibility.  The money is gone down the money hole, for ever, proving that money does not in fact exist and is smoke and mirrors, and he will be very unlikely to repay it; if he has any honesty and character to him it will haunt him for the rest of his life.  It is highly probable that he is now just very depressed, bewildered, confused, and completely demoralised, and friendless.  Pity for, not sorry for, mind, and only a little; pity is not a particularly sympathetic thing...

 

Business is a sort of gambling, and as there are problem gambling addicts, so there are problem business addicts.  

 

He accepted the risk when he went into business.  I have never gone into business and don't invest in businesses because I don't accept the risk, and if I ever did so, it would be on the basis that I have lost that money forever, so that any increase in it's value or dividends paid out would be purely bunce.

Edited August 22, 2020 by The Johnster

[spamcan61]

7 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

 The money is gone down the money hole, for ever, proving that money does not in fact exist and is smoke and mirrors, and he will be very unlikely to repay it; if he has any honesty and character to him it will haunt him for the rest of his life.  It is highly probable that he is now just very depressed, bewildered, confused, and completely demoralised, and friendless.  Pity for, not sorry for, mind, and only a little; pity is not a particularly sympathetic thing...

 

 

Didn't seem to be much 'haunting' after the N-thusiast mess ended in a similar fashion.

[The Johnster]

5 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Didn't seem to be much 'haunting' after the N-thusiast mess ended in a similar fashion.

Good point.  If Dave behaves like this, then less pity is going to be available to him!  But for now I'll give him the benefit of the doubt; perhaps I shouldn't, because in a sense it is people giving him the benefit of the doubt that got him in this mess to start with.  All the same, there is a human element to be borne in mind here, and not only the victims are the victims, the perpetrator is as well.

[rab]

3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Something fishy going on?

I knew he had plans on some rolling stock,

but I didn't realise one was a mermaid!

[PMP]

3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

 All the same, there is a human element to be borne in mind here, and not only the victims are the victims, the perpetrator is as well.

It must be an awful feeling for the poor victim in the United States, Canada, Galápagos Islands, or behind the wheel of a hundred grands worth of sports cars on track days. Did I miss anywhere out?

[The Johnster]

Such people are unadulterated scum, but do we know that DJM Dave is in fact having grapes peeled for him by dusky maidens in the Seychelles or Mustique?   He can rot so far as I'm concerned if he is, but if he's more like that poor sod ensconced in a crumbling hut on the Somerset Levels with the Coopercraft stuff, then he is very annoying indeed and a criminal, but one must recognise that he is also terrified of opening the door which the ivy is growing over, and almost certainly quite seriously mentally ill.  As someone who has mental health issues myself, I am bound to see things from more than one side...

 

I am not trying to argue that mental illness or incapacity should ever be used as an excuse for fraudulent or exploitative behaviour, or for criminal activity; a psychotic murderer is still a murderer.  DJM Dave must face up to the consequences of his failure, for which he alone is responsible; he will get no sympathy from me if he attempts to blame others or hide behind an illness.  I don't hide behind mine, and expect others to behave similarly.  DJM is a failed businessman who owes money to people that he cannot pay, and has been liquidated in that sense according to the law, not a thief and arguably stupid rather than overtly dishonest, and now can't cope as the chooks come home to roost.

 

His subsequent actions will determine what sort of man he is, and the level to which I will criticise him.

Edited August 22, 2020 by The Johnster

[spamcan61]

13 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

 DJM Dave must face up to the consequences of his failure, for which he alone is responsible; he will get no sympathy from me if he attempts to blame others or hide behind an illness. 

I think you'll find every one of the many screw ups during the DJM era was blamed on somebody else e.g. his accountant, various Chinese factories and so on.  I can't see that pattern changing, it didn't last time.

Edited August 22, 2020 by spamcan61

[The Johnster]

Just now, spamcan61 said:

I think you'll find every one of the many screw ups during the DJM era was blamed on somebody else e.g. his accountant, various Chinese factories and so on.

Is there any credence to this?  Or is it arrogance and blame shifting/responsibility deflection?

[spamcan61]

20 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Is there any credence to this?  Or is it arrogance and blame shifting/responsibility deflection?

I don't see how that much misfortune could happen to anybody competent.

[PMP]

24 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Is there any credence to this?  Or is it arrogance and blame shifting/responsibility deflection?

Clearly you’ve not followed the story. It’s all there, read it. 

[PMP]

41 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Such people are unadulterated scum, but do we know that DJM Dave is in fact having grapes peeled for him by dusky maidens in the Seychelles or Mustique?   He can rot so far as I'm concerned if he is, but if he's more like that poor sod ensconced in a crumbling hut on the Somerset Levels with the Coopercraft stuff, then he is very annoying indeed and a criminal, but one must recognise that he is also terrified of opening the door which the ivy is growing over, and almost certainly quite seriously mentally ill.  

Well if you follow the entire Dave Jones story you’ll find a number of inconsistencies to your ‘poor Dave’ depictions. The eye picture. Why was there a comment ‘where’s our/the money?’  on the comments following publication on the newspaper site it appeared on? 

 

There is much information not in the public domain, regarding the actions of DJM models quite a bit that can’t be substantiated, but nevertheless those ‘rumours’ seem entirely plausible based on recent events. A bit like where tens, possibly in excess of a hundred thousand pounds or more has gone? No one knows for sure, except one person.

 

Ivy growing over Coopercrafts door, a crumbling hut and ‘almost certainly’ mental health problems. Please confirm you’ve visited the property and discussed ‘Coopercraft’ with the owner.

[Philou]

I think The Johnster was merely painting a picture on the canvas that is life .......................................

[grahame]

8 minutes ago, Philou said:

I think The Johnster was merely painting a picture on the canvas that is life .......................................

 

A fanciful abstract or impressionist one?

 

;-)

 

[petethemole]

14 minutes ago, Philou said:

I think The Johnster was merely painting a picture on the canvas that is life .......................................

He might have been on Google Streetview.  Not exactly a hut, but a bit crumbly.  Assuming of course that's the correct address.... 

[Colin_McLeod]

6 hours ago, The Johnster said:

 It is highly probable that he is now just very depressed, bewildered, confused, and completely demoralised, and friendless.

 

He appears quite happy on the aircraft display forum. He may have a thicker skin than you think.