Shunting tank wagons/barrier vehicles

[DSC]

I am building a BR, 1950s-era goods yard - much of the operating interest will be shunting-based. I would like to include a delivery destination for tank wagons, which will contain some kind of oil-based, probably inflammable product. I believe that there was a requirement in loose-coupled trains at that period for a barrier vehicle/vehicles between such wagons and the engine and also perhaps the guard's van; that is, presumably, between the tank wagon and any vehicle containing a fire and/or human beings. 

 

Being of a pedantic nature, I'd like to ask the forum about the following specifics, so that I can get my practice right - a reference to readily-available documentation would be absolutely fine:

1. Were barrier vehicles required to protect both the engine and the guard's van, or just the former?

2. How many such vehicles were required? Did it vary with the number of tank wagons in the consist?

3. Were barrier vehicles required only during transit between points (i.e. on running lines) or also when tank wagons were being shunted in a yard?

4. Did it make any difference that the tank wagons were fulls or empties?

5. Were there any requirements for the type or loading of a wagon that could be used as a barrier vehicle?

 

I would be most grateful for any guidance on this matter.

 

David C.

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by DSC

[Aire Head]

1 hour ago, DSC said:

I am building a BR, 1950s-era goods yard - much of the operating interest will be shunting-based. I would like to include a delivery destination for tank wagons, which will contain some kind of oil-based, probably inflammable product. I believe that there was a requirement in loose-coupled trains at that period for a barrier vehicle/vehicles between such wagons and the engine and also perhaps the guard's van; that is, presumably, between the tank wagon and any vehicle containing a fire and/or human beings. 

 

Being of a pedantic nature, I'd like to ask the forum about the following specifics, so that I can get my practice right - a reference to readily-available documentation would be absolutely fine:

1. Were barrier vehicles required to protect both the engine and the guard's van, or just the former?

2. How many such vehicles were required? Did it vary with the number of tank wagons in the consist?

3. Were barrier vehicles required only during transit between points (i.e. on running lines) or also when tank wagons were being shunted in a yard?

4. Did it make any difference that the tank wagons were fulls or empties?

5. Were there any requirements for the type or loading of a wagon that could be used as a barrier vehicle?

 

I would be most grateful for any guidance on this matter.

 

David C.

 

 

Class A (silver tankers) require a barrier vehicle. This doesn't have to be a dedicated vehicle and if running in a good train this could just be other wagons carrying non-flammable goods.

 

In a block train you would require a barrier. I can't say wether it would be 1 or 2 SLU but someone else may.

 

[hmrspaul]

Barriers aren't required when shunting.

 

Paul

[101]

On 05/06/2020 at 22:09, hmrspaul said:

Barriers aren't required when shunting.

 

Paul

 

 

As Paul says Barriers weren't required when shunting, but to muddy the waters a bit if you are modelling a discharge point, some of those required a reach wagon which you could include for an extra bit of shunting,  they were attached between the loco and train before the train was placed for discharge, and removed again before the train departed.

[Ken.W]

For inflammable products, Class A, then yes barrier vehicles, I believe two, are required, both between the tanks and loco, and also the guards van - don't forget it contains the guard's stove, as well as having paraffin lamps hung on the back of it! Also, if in a mixed goods train then barrier vehicles would also be required between the tanks and any vehicles carrying the likes of steel pipes or girders. Certain classes of dangerous goods were also required to socially distance from each other.

On a delivery destination for your tanks, the yard at Hexham had a fuel distribution depot. As I recall, this was more like a private siding adjacent to, and accessed off, the yard, but fully fenced off with high wire mesh and gated. As 101 has said, reach wagons would probably be used to place and retrieve the tanks, as the loco would not be allowed to encroach within the depot at all.

[Rivercider]

There is a long running thread here on RMweb about disused oil terminals, this includes some photos and links, but also gives many different locations where terminals were located. Some of the locations might give some inspiration for your layout.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/35437-oil-terminals-no-more/

 

My railway career did not start until the late 1970s, so things may have changed a little by then

By the 1970s the barrier requirement would be the same whether there was one tank or a whole train load.

The barrier requirement was by length, so one longer wagon could be used or two shorter ones.

In most  cases a discharged (empty) tank is still dangerous, so the barrier requirement remains the same for discharged tanks.

Tiverton Junction oil terminal was one terminal where a reach wagon was used when berthing tanks in the terminal, 

 

cheers 

[Fat Controller]

3 hours ago, Rivercider said:

There is a long running thread here on RMweb about disused oil terminals, this includes some photos and links, but also gives many different locations where terminals were located. Some of the locations might give some inspiration for your layout.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/35437-oil-terminals-no-more/

 

My railway career did not start until the late 1970s, so things may have changed a little by then

By the 1970s the barrier requirement would be the same whether there was one tank or a whole train load.

The barrier requirement was by length, so one longer wagon could be used or two shorter ones.

In most  cases a discharged (empty) tank is still dangerous, so the barrier requirement remains the same for discharged tanks.

Tiverton Junction oil terminal was one terminal where a reach wagon was used when berthing tanks in the terminal, 

 

cheers 

Langley, near Slough, was another location where reach wagons were used (not that they stopped it going up in a lot of flames in 1973) . Through-piped Plate wagons were a popular choice for Reach wagons, presumably because the low body gave the driver a good view of the position of the tanks. When not in use, they'd normally be stabled just inside the terminal gates.

[hmrspaul]

Plates were common Reach wagons  and usually had vacuum and/or airpipes https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brplatereach

One of these was used as prototype for one of the Plate wagons produced by TMC https://www.themodelcentre.com/38-851z-Bachmann-oo-gauge-reach-wagon-tdb931937

[DSC]

Firstly, my apologies for not having previously acknowledged all these very useful responses; a minor but time-consuming domestic plumbing incident intervened.  

 

Your kind replies have  given me an excellent basis for thinking about shunting sequences and train make-up, especially the use of reach wagons as the unloading area is on a private siding just off the yard itself. In essence there need to be barriers at each end for fulls and empties - probably two smaller wagons, and paying attention to the wagon loads of the barrier vehicles. Certainly gives me a reason to increase the wagon fleet a bit.... I also need to beef up the distribution point 'security' a bit, though I suspect that there was probably a more relaxed H&S attitude in the early '50s (for better or worse). 

 

Thanks to Rivercider for the link to the thread on oil terminals, which I will look at carefully. The terminal I had in mind, or at least the one on which I had most information, was that for bitumen unloading at Whimsey in the Forest of Dean, covered in the excellent books by Pope and Karau. To my surprise when doing a bit of research, it seemed that these trains didn't have barrier wagons, presumably because the contents were non-volatile or possibly because the stub of the branch that the terminal was located on was considered itself to be a siding. It seemed likely that for 'lighter' hydrocarbon products there would have been quite strict guidelines on safety, and indeed it is now clear that this was the case.

 

Thanks to everybody for their much appreciated assistance.

 

All the best

 

David C.

 

[Aire Head]

While I am sure this has been covered before in other threads I am having difficulty finding them.

 

What are examples of Class B fuel? Would Diesel be class A or B?

 

Can Class B tankers be used as barrier vehicles?

 

If a train is a block working to a single destination would all the class A be Marshalled together and all of the Class B be the same or could they be mixed on the rake?

[Aire Head]

While I am sure this has been covered before in other threads I am having difficulty finding them.

 

What are examples of Class B fuel? Would Diesel be class A or B?

 

Can Class B tankers be used as barrier vehicles?

 

If a train is a block working to a single destination would all the class A be Marshalled together and all of the Class B be the same or could they be mixed on the rake?

 

If all the tankers are unfitted what would be the appropriate headcode for the 1950s?

[Fat Controller]

Into the 1950s, many country goods depots didn't have specific facilities for unloading petrol. Tank wagons would be emptied by means of mechanical pumps, and siphoning , into containers. There might be a shed to keep empty containers in, but little else. I have seen photos of Newcastle Emlyn in the mid 1960s where fuel was still handled like that. Diesel (a Class B liquid)was handled in a similar fashion, but there was no need for pumping, as the tanks had bottom discharge.

Class B tankers could be used as barrier wagons; Class A and B wagons would appear in portions of a few wagons, due to the arrangements at the loading racks in the refineries.

[PenrithBeacon]

On 07/06/2020 at 00:36, 101 said:

 

 

As Paul says Barriers weren't required when shunting, but to muddy the waters a bit if you are modelling a discharge point, some of those required a reach wagon which you could include for an extra bit of shunting,  they were attached between the loco and train before the train was placed for discharge, and removed again before the train departed.

What's the difference between a reach and a barrier wagon, please.

Regards

[The Pilotman]

A barrier wagon is to provide some separation between a loco and/or wagons conveying something unpleasant while a reach wagon allows a loco to shunt wagons without entering an area where having a running engine is not a good idea (explosives depot or somewhere with flammable/volatile substances etc.).

Edited June 10, 2020 by Western Aviator

[Aire Head]

14 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

What's the difference between a reach and a barrier wagon, please.

Regards

 

A reach wagon is used for shunting into areas that a locomotive cannot or should not access.

 

For example you don't want your dirty great steam engine inside the goods shed covering all your goods in soot. Likewise you don't want a spark belching monster right next to the fuel unloading point. So you use another wagon between the loco and what it is shunting.

 

A barrier wagon is used when you want to keep vehicles separate from each other. This could be the loconotive and flammable goods or flammable goods and explosives for example.

[Derekl]

Presumably the barrier wagon/s could be used as reach wagons when placing the tanks in the unloading facility?

[Aire Head]

13 minutes ago, Derekl said:

Presumably the barrier wagon/s could be used as reach wagons when placing the tanks in the unloading facility?

 

I don't see why not, not everywhere would have a suitable vehicle I would have thought.