BR Exhibition coaches

[montyburns56]

Technically not an exhibition coach, but interesting nevertheless.

 

Travelling College Mk1 RMB 1815 1990

 

 

[montyburns56]

This picture of the Stiff Tour train isn't very clear, but it looks like it's using a generator strapped to a Carflat!

 

 

By KDH Archive

[keefer]

The generator flat is visible in this pic:

https://urbanimage.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/Stiff-Records/G00005jZtqSvoaSs/I0000E1jKAfIohSc/C0000rdY.ZwU_gYw

 

From the January 1979 R.O. the formation was given as "an unidentified Motorail flat, S38744, S38745, E321E, E13306, E14050, ADM44404."

 

See STIFF Tour Train 1978 thread

[jonhall]

 

 

 

 

[jonhall]

Noticed in the edge of a photo at Reading - is the electriciation exhibition in two ex GWR siphons?

 

 

Jon

 

[montyburns56]

22 hours ago, jonhall said:

Noticed in the edge of a photo at Reading - is the electriciation exhibition in two ex GWR siphons?

 

 

Jon

 

 

I initially thought that they might be the LNER BG's that were mentioned earlier in the thread, but looking more closely I think you're right, they do look like internally braced Siphon Gs. They might make for an interesting modelling project if there are any other pictures of them.

 

[Michael Hodgson]

Not sure an exhibition train is ideal on a model.  You basically dump it in a platform and leave it there for a week, so it ties up one of your platforms for the whole of an exhibition, limiting what else you might one to run!  Might make sense if your layout has a platform that is not connected electrically or is otherwise unusable I suppose

[Tony Cane]

Here is a better picture.

The train consists of two ex GWR sipoon Gs and an ex L&Y coach.

[Halvarras]

On 29/08/2021 at 20:17, jonhall said:

 

 

 

 

 

This was the real DB975073 - the Class 122 imposter, ex-W55001, briefly carried the same number before becoming DB975023. Oops!

[montyburns56]

20 hours ago, Tony Cane said:

Here is a better picture.

The train consists of two ex GWR sipoon Gs and an ex L&Y coach.

 

Nice one Tony and I see that it features our old friend the L&Y coach....

 

 

[Peter A Hall]

On 06/06/2020 at 17:04, montyburns56 said:

Salford Docks 1970 DB975073

 

 

 

 

 

 

Recently in the Carriage Conundrums feature on the RCTS website we have added Exhibition Train Formations - 1970s where we are trying to  compile a listing of the various Exhibition Train formations of that decade.  Only just come across this very interesting topic and as I read through I will post where I can add more.

 

For starters, these two pictures are extremely interesting.  I'm as sure as I can be that these pictures were taken in May 1973 on Number 6 Dock.  During that month the Transpo '73 Exhibition was held there,  This has been mentioned in the Trains in Trafford Park topic.  A visiter records the three vehicles pictured as present (DB975073, DB975074, DW150353) and a magazine report says that three-coach exhibition trains featuring respectively "Electrification" and the "Great British Investment" were present.  I have also seen pictures of DB975073 & DB975074 being shunted prior to the event which match with these pictures.

 

The three-coach "Electrification train is likely to have been that formed of DB975152, DB075153, DB975154 but as yet I have not found any photographs or notes to confirm that. 

[corneliuslundie]

I assume that your colleagues have seen the two articles I published in the HMRS Journal on exhibition trains of that period. Volume 19, 2006, page 71 and volume 20, 2009, page 58.

Jonathan

[montyburns56]

7 hours ago, Peter A Hall said:

Recently in the Carriage Conundrums feature on the RCTS website we have added Exhibition Train Formations - 1970s where we are trying to  compile a listing of the various Exhibition Train formations of that decade.  Only just come across this very interesting topic and as I read through I will post where I can add more.

 

For starters, these two pictures are extremely interesting.  I'm as sure as I can be that these pictures were taken in May 1973 on Number 6 Dock.  During that month the Transpo '73 Exhibition was held there,  This has been mentioned in the Trains in Trafford Park topic.  A visiter records the three vehicles pictured as present (DB975073, DB975074, DW150353) and a magazine report says that three-coach exhibition trains featuring respectively "Electrification" and the "Great British Investment" were present.  I have also seen pictures of DB975073 & DB975074 being shunted prior to the event which match with these pictures.

 

The three-coach "Electrification train is likely to have been that formed of DB975152, DB075153, DB975154 but as yet I have not found any photographs or notes to confirm that. 

 

 

Thanks for that Peter it adds a lot of new info to the topic. I notice that the RCTS site says that Rovex even had an Exhibition train in 1978 which is interesting.....

[montyburns56]

I forgot to mention that I've previously posted some pics of the Transpo 73 event in this thread....

 

 

[Peter A Hall]

17 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

I assume that your colleagues have seen the two articles I published in the HMRS Journal on exhibition trains of that period. Volume 19, 2006, page 71 and volume 20, 2009, page 58.

Jonathan

Personally I have not seen these two articles but others have mentioned them.  In another group where they have been mentioned I asked whether they detailed formations and storage locations or were focused on the vehicles themselves, design, modification and similar yet so far no one has responded.

 

Are the articles available on line?

[corneliuslundie]

They are not available on-line as it was the days when before PDFs were created, but I attach the MSS sent to the Editor.

I still have all the illustrations, either as prints or as scans, except the transparencies mentioned at the end of the second article, which I never did get back.

Jonathan

ex trains final draft.doc Exhibition trains in the 1970s.doc

[Peter A Hall]

These two articles are fascinating.  Very many thanks for making them available.  Please bear with me for a few days whilst I cross reference with the information I have compiled.   It will now be possible to match the observations with the train details and know by painted number which carriages were actually in the formations.  

[Tony Cane]

On 31/10/2021 at 10:18, Peter A Hall said:

 

The three-coach "Electrification train is likely to have been that formed of DB975152, DB075153, DB975154 but as yet I have not found any photographs or notes to confirm that. 

Is the infromation here sufficient confirmation?

https://www.departmentals.com/departmental/975154

[montyburns56]

On 01/11/2021 at 11:01, corneliuslundie said:

They are not available on-line as it was the days when before PDFs were created, but I attach the MSS sent to the Editor.

I still have all the illustrations, either as prints or as scans, except the transparencies mentioned at the end of the second article, which I never did get back.

Jonathan

ex trains final draft.doc 36 kB · 16 downloads Exhibition trains in the 1970s.doc 39.5 kB · 10 downloads

 

Wow, thanks for that exhaustive article. Everything that you wanted to know about Exhibition coaches, but were afraid to ask!

[Peter A Hall]

This paragraph from the article I found particularly interesting.
 

Quote

 

Also during this period occurred the most expensive single venture of all: the three year visit to

Eastern Europe by a five or six coach train (John Cocking lists six coaches as used but describes five and other evidence is contradictory). This travelled some 7000 miles in the first year and a half, visiting some 60 towns in Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Poland, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, Italy and Austria. A planned visit to Russia did not come off – in any case bogie changing might have posed some headaches on stock not designed for it.

 

Until I started compiling the RCTS feature I had it in my mind that 99621-99625 were the 'continental set' and had spent a long period abroad.  If the August 1974 Carnforth reference to these is dismissed (see below) my suspicion is that it was these that were abroad for three years. Possibly from conversion in 1973 to late 1976 when they are first recorded at Salisbury.  I have a recollection of a magazine reference to them returning published during the winter of 1976/77 which caused a lot of excitment among local carriage spotters as at the time no one had seen them.

 

I did visit the Locomotion '74 Exhibition at Carnforth in August 1974 but did not record the Exhibition carriages present.   If any one did that would be very helpful.  The brochure does though say the three coach ehibition visited by H. M. The Queen on 7th May 1974 was present.  I'm presuming this was DB975152-4.  Also, that the Corporate Image Exhibition Train that had visited most countries in Europe would be present.  Initially I thought that referred to M99621-5 but having closely looked at the photographs taken at Transpo '73 now suspect it was DW150353+DB975073+DB975074.  The brochure also mentions a Cinme Coach but that could have been part of the latter formation.    

[Peter A Hall]

On 02/11/2021 at 10:48, Tony Cane said:

Is the infromation here sufficient confirmation?

https://www.departmentals.com/departmental/975154

All sightings of DB975154 are post its preservation.   Thus, doesn't really help with where the Electrification Train  visited in the 1970s.  It does though the appear from earlier posts in this topic and references elsewhere that the train travelled widely and it was at both Transpo '73 and Locomotion '74., so far though I've not come across a picture or other conclusive evidence of it at at either.   Any sightings of the train in the early 1970s would be welcomed.

[Peter A Hall]

On 16/05/2021 at 18:58, montyburns56 said:

Royal Journey coach at Nottingham London Road Low Level 1953

 

 

My thoughts are that this pair are 6513 (ex 13244, ex L&Y 2389) & 6533 ( ex 12160, ex L&Y 604), see  LMSR/BR Exhibition Vans .

If I'm correct they they were presumbly  subsequently used throughout the 1950's & 1960's in exhibition train formations.  If I'm correct then other pictures surely exist but probably of the "also in the shot" variety rather than specifically of these.  Then in c1970 they were displaced by the first Mark I conversions.  However, although 6513 went for scrap, 6533 was substantially rebuilt and renumbered DB975154 for use in the Electrification Exhibition Train.

 

Any pictures or references to 6513 & 6533 in the 1950s & 1960s would be most welcome in proving or disproving my theory. 

[Peter A Hall]

On 05/06/2020 at 14:07, corneliuslundie said:

There was another private operation, Rea Mobile Marketing, and Ron introduced me to the owner, who also gave me some photos. His trains were based on older stock, as shown below.

The two businesses were taken over by BR.

Kensington Olympia, where the Be Stiff Tour train is seen above, was a place where the trains were often photographed.

Jonathan

I would agree that the three LNER design carriages in the picture were once the Rea train.  However, the photo I'm sure was taken in the second half of the 1970s.  By then the three were numbered ZDB975399/400/401 and in use as 'the Safety train'.  This I believe toured the country and was used to assist in staff safety training.  As such it was not visited by the general public which would explain the BR departmental series numbering.

 

As Cornelius mentions, these were purchased from Rea by BR in 1974 and strangely took the next available numbers in the BR design Exhibition van series, 99626/27/28, rather than numbering them as LNER design vehicles.  Not of course unprecedented as  CCT(E) Car Carriers  96200/01/02/03 were similarly so numbered.   M99626/27/28 would not have been carried for long though as 975399/400/401 were also allocated in 1974.  Presumably though they did see use in public exhibition trains whilst in BR ownership in 1974.  Details and photographs of such use would be welcomed.

 

Whilst in Rea ownership they were numbered MM3021/22/23.  However, going further back did they see use with BR as exhibition vans in the 1960s or was their first use as such in Rea ownership? 

 

[corneliuslundie]

There is a note at the end of one of Table 3a in the article: "All purchased from Rea Mobile Marketing 1974, used an a BR internal exhibition train, withdrawn Nov 1980." That tables gives all the numbers allocated to the vehicles.

The photo above was not one I was given by Bill Rea and I cannot date it but presumably it is pre 1980. I do have from an unknown source a photo of the same train at Tunbridge Wells West dated 4 May 1976.

Rea bought his coaches from BR shortly after The Builder Group set up its company in July 1969 (see the MS). 

I described the three vehicles in my article as "former LNER full brake/pigeon vans", which would have been Bill Rea's description. This suggests that they had not previously been used for exhibitions.

It is a very long time since I wrote the articles. The first one was written two decades before it was published. So my memory is hazy, though I still have all the source material. Sorry to be so vague.

Jonathan

[Peter A Hall]

I broached the possibly of the Rea carriages having previously seen exhibition use prior to purchase as a result of seeing the pictures up post of the Coal Utilisation Council exhibition train at Swindon in the early 1960s.  The vehicle closest to the photographer is  a 'Gresley' era brake so wondered perchance it was one that which was in the Rea train.  The other two carriages in that formation look to have been of LMS pedigree.

 

Until reading the articles I had never understood why, when in private ownership, the trio were prefixed MM, obviously Mobile Marketing, but why not RMM?   That would be more logical, especially as the Chipmans owned carriages were prefixed CWT.

 

Rea being based at Kensington Olympia would explain why vans were often to be found there.  Rea staff fitting them out as Trainex staff did at Wimborne / Salisbury.