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A return to Nantford Spinney


AndyB
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Hi Andy, thought crosses my mind looking at the photo above - is there sufficient room for a horse and cart / lorry to come alongside the Goods Shed and turn round?  Even if a horse and cart is no longer being used by your era, I guess the Goods Shed would have most likely been built with that as a requirement.  There may be plenty of room - just can’t tell from the angle of the photo.  Just a thought, Keith.

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37 minutes ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

Hi Andy, thought crosses my mind looking at the photo above - is there sufficient room for a horse and cart / lorry to come alongside the Goods Shed and turn round?  Even if a horse and cart is no longer being used by your era, I guess the Goods Shed would have most likely been built with that as a requirement.  There may be plenty of room - just can’t tell from the angle of the photo.  Just a thought, Keith.

 

That's a good point, Keith.

At scale it's about 20' at the narrowest point and 40' at its widest. Allowing for the small loading platform that is yet to be added to the goods shed kit.

Andy

 

I don't know what the turning circle of a horse side cart is. But this video suggests it can be done in the width of a road.

So we should be OK.

 

20210912_174124.jpg.720d13732ca56eca8edc8506e0ef1839.jpg

 

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I spent some time this morning adding cardboard strips on top of the profile formers and later on covered those with patches of blue J cloth soaked in dilute PVA.

I'll dig out a fan later to get it all to dry quicker and ready for painting.

 

Until its been painted and had a rock face and grass added it's going to look quite odd. Hopefully it won't look odd afterwards! :D

But if it does I can always think again and try something else.

 

Thanks for your recent ideas and comments. They're most welcome and helpful. Andy

 

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In one of his books on layout design Iain Rice talks about designing for visual effect (Chapter 5, p 28 for anyone who has a copy).

 

20210914_081413.jpg.25890dd1844638465347c5c005cdd322.jpg

 

Here he talks about unbalanced, balanced and divided scenes. I rather suspect that this hill may divide the station scene. Certainly it acts as a significant view blocker if sat down operating the layout.

 

One of my other hobbies is cleaning the children's fish tank out ;). When placing plants in the tank one idea is to put the plants towards the rear so that the fish are for the most part, displaying in plain sight. I'm wondering if I should do the same with my scenery. 

 

Anyway let's see how it looks after painting and take it from there.

 

LBJR thanks for the reference to Trinity house models. I can certainly see a lighthouse adding context to this hill.

 

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24 minutes ago, AndyB said:

In one of his books on layout design Iain Rice talks about designing for visual effect (Chapter 5, p 28 for anyone who has a copy).

 

20210914_081413.jpg.25890dd1844638465347c5c005cdd322.jpg

 

Here he talks about unbalanced, balanced and divided scenes. I rather suspect that this hill may divide the station scene. Certainly it acts as a significant view blocker if sat down operating the layout.

 

One of my other hobbies is cleaning the children's fish tank out ;). When placing plants in the tank one idea is to put the plants towards the rear so that the fish are for the most part, displaying in plain sight. I'm wondering if I should do the same with my scenery. 

 

Anyway let's see how it looks after painting and take it from there.

 

LBJR thanks for the reference to Trinity house models. I can certainly see a lighthouse adding context to this hill.

 


Hi Andy - good point to consider, particularly if your normal operating position is seated, whereas you are more usually standing when working on the layout?  What you see when building the layout may not be the same as it looks later?
 

I attended a gathering of railway modellers over the weekend, and one thing I noticed was that most of the layouts on display (it wasn’t a formal public exhibition as such) were being operated from a seated position, while those watching - including me - were standing.  It gave us very different perspectives at the same time.

 

The question of layout height comes up a lot in discussions about exhibitions, but for a home layout is more often simply stated as what the owner decided - less often is there the need to consider both seated and standing viewing positions, but what I saw on Saturday reminded me it does make a difference, Keith.

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3 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:


Hi Andy - good point to consider, particularly if your normal operating position is seated, whereas you are more usually standing when working on the layout?  What you see when building the layout may not be the same as it looks later?
 

I attended a gathering of railway modellers over the weekend, and one thing I noticed was that most of the layouts on display (it wasn’t a formal public exhibition as such) were being operated from a seated position, while those watching - including me - were standing.  It gave us very different perspectives at the same time.

 

The question of layout height comes up a lot in discussions about exhibitions, but for a home layout is more often simply stated as what the owner decided - less often is there the need to consider both seated and standing viewing positions, but what I saw on Saturday reminded me it does make a difference, Keith.

Hi Keith, 

At present I'm in "layout construction" mode so the majority of the time I'm stood up, also the case when I operate it to see if trains run OK.

And this is the view I get. Not too bad but...

 

20210914_112108.jpg.2384fbd106e3ba88eaae2d12bf861da5.jpg

 

... at some (glorious) point in the future it may be that I get to sit down in the middle and watch trains make their way round the layout. Unfortunately this is what I may expect to see.  

 

20210914_110858.jpg.d3bc5a46f1a6d97c1fe977fd876c67f3.jpg

 

OK so I could buy a bar stool but I'm starting to think the hill divides the scene.

 

As for the layout height it's set to make wiring easy and to access the chest freezer that sits below this board; it's easy enough to pull the freezer forward to open the lid. 

 

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On 14/09/2021 at 13:14, AndyB said:

Hi Keith, 

At present I'm in "layout construction" mode so the majority of the time I'm stood up, also the case when I operate it to see if trains run OK.

And this is the view I get. Not too bad but...

 

20210914_112108.jpg.2384fbd106e3ba88eaae2d12bf861da5.jpg

 

... at some (glorious) point in the future it may be that I get to sit down in the middle and watch trains make their way round the layout. Unfortunately this is what I may expect to see.  

 

20210914_110858.jpg.d3bc5a46f1a6d97c1fe977fd876c67f3.jpg

 

OK so I could buy a bar stool but I'm starting to think the hill divides the scene.

 

As for the layout height it's set to make wiring easy and to access the chest freezer that sits below this board; it's easy enough to pull the freezer forward to open the lid. 

 


Have you tried an Extreme operating position…?

 

6EFC0F2D-2167-4C6D-BA40-E572E15A4D26.jpeg.1a84f1c447c2439485c38a24b2c4fa12.jpeg

(“A wobbly-chair drone shot” copied from my NG layout thread)

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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OK. After a long ponder I'm a man with a plan. 

1. Clear the skeleton of the town from behind the town.

2. Replace it with a simpler hill with a single winding road, limited buildings to hint at the edge of a small town. As per StIvesNick's advice use real world examples as inspiration; I have something in mind.

3. Remove the recently added hill to the front of the baseboard. Leave this area flat and work up a fishing village / quayside scene. 

4. Assume inspiration to disguise the point motor control block will present itself in the fullness of time. 

 

And whilst Slartibartfast was figuring all this out the afternoon goods train trundled down the line...

 

20210916_161050.jpg.bafb824e0f5da2b4b80b7b6088d0bb2a.jpg

 

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18 minutes ago, AndyB said:

No going back now. 

 

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One piece of good advice I was given elsewhere when thinking about a larger Narrow Gauge layout was to arrange it so I could lay all the track, then build the scenery up section by section.  This photo demonstrates that approach really well - the corner scene with the Church and the harbour in the foreground remain unaffected by the events that have flattened the town in between, and trains can still run (presumably - after some track cleaning).

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9 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:


One piece of good advice I was given elsewhere when thinking about a larger Narrow Gauge layout was to arrange it so I could lay all the track, then build the scenery up section by section.  This photo demonstrates that approach really well - the corner scene with the Church and the harbour in the foreground remain unaffected by the events that have flattened the town in between, and trains can still run (presumably - after some track cleaning).

 

Absolutely, yes. This was about a fresh start on just the bit that I wasn't happy with. 

 

And by clearing the area it's triggered some more innovative thinking about what could be included. More of that later.

    

Yep, trains could be run but it'd need a good clean. 

 

Only a brief update from me tonight as there's other things afoot that need my attention. More over the weekend. 

Andy

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Morning all.

First question and opinions sought - of possibly several today.

 

At the end of the layout I've currently not got a side scene board. This leaves an unimpeded view of the layout when I sit at my desk. This is good and I do spend a lot of time sat at my desk!

 

From another perspective it looks a bit as if the layout trails off; a bit incomplete perhaps?

 

Would readers add a side scene, or not. If so, would it be a full rectangular, triangular or even curved shape?

 

Here's some photos. 

 

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Thanks in advance for any comments and opinions.

 

Andy

 

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I think it definitely needs something Andy and ideally bringing it out towards the baseboard edge rather than just the width of the landward bit at the end of the railway because it finishes far too abruptly at the moment.   So maybe full back scene height at the corner where it meets th backscene and then gradually descending as it shows the dunes/marsh beyond the little harbour at the end?

 

Look at pictures of Valentia Harbour station in ireland or Kyle of Lochalsh where the railway ends at the water's edge.r

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I think it needs a "visual full stop" there but a backscene alone won't be enough if it portrays "the distance" like backscenes usually do because then the scene would still trail away with no obvious end.

 

I suggest that instead of a backscene something within the scene should provide the full stop, such as a large building or a clump of trees (if it's a sheltered harbour). Perhaps something related to the sea. Chandlers warehouse, boat shed, seaman's chapel? Stubby lighthouse?

 

(I notice that the bits of ply you were holding up are not full end scenes, they all have a relationship to the harbour wall - so you're already thinking about the end being part of the model rather than the edge of the world...)

 

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1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

I think it definitely needs something Andy and ideally bringing it out towards the baseboard edge rather than just the width of the landward bit at the end of the railway because it finishes far too abruptly at the moment.   So maybe full back scene height at the corner where it meets th backscene and then gradually descending as it shows the dunes/marsh beyond the little harbour at the end?

 

Look at pictures of Valentia Harbour station in ireland or Kyle of Lochalsh where the railway ends at the water's edge.r

 

Thanks Mike,

 

One disadvantage of boxing the scene in would be to cut out some nice views along the layout.

What I could do, after doing some prototypes in card, is to secure it in place with (say) magnets. Allowing it to be in place for operating sessions and also removable when needed.

 

BTW, looking forward to seeing you in a few week's time. 

Andy

 

 

 

Edited by AndyB
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14 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

I think it needs a "visual full stop" there but a backscene alone won't be enough if it portrays "the distance" like backscenes usually do because then the scene would still trail away with no obvious end.

 

I suggest that instead of a backscene something within the scene should provide the full stop, such as a large building or a clump of trees (if it's a sheltered harbour). Perhaps something related to the sea. Chandlers warehouse, boat shed, seaman's chapel? Stubby lighthouse?

 

(I notice that the bits of ply you were holding up are not full end scenes, they all have a relationship to the harbour wall - so you're already thinking about the end being part of the model rather than the edge of the world...)

 

 

Thanks, Phil.

Appreciate your thoughts, especially with your talent for visual design being applied to this. 

 

Not this specific building, but is this something like what you had in mind in terms of height?

 

Andy

 

20210918_151659.jpg.029c2c8a3d15d2196f774fe8723d8b52.jpg

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22 minutes ago, AndyB said:

 

Thanks, Phil.

Appreciate your thoughts, especially with your talent for visual design being applied to this. 

 

Not this specific building, but is this something like what you had in mind in terms of height?

 

Andy

 

20210918_151659.jpg.029c2c8a3d15d2196f774fe8723d8b52.jpg

 

Yes, something like that.

 

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Thanks Mike and Phil for your ideas. I like the idea of a corner filler building to finish the scene off.

 

Earlier in the week I made reference to one of Iain Rice's books. One theme that comes across in this book is that goods operations (shunting) provide a lot more interest than passenger operations. And on a branchline like mine it'd be stretching things to have much more than a B set or autocoach shuttling back and forth. 

 

So I'm adding more reasons to include a wider variety of goods traffic...

 

I'd already thought about a low-relief, rail-served warehouse of some description as part of the headshunt.

 

20210918_153909.jpg.20806787af829a99556e603e28658996.jpg

 

I think including another building at 90 degrees to that will add even more interest.  

 

And on the subject of more goods interest...clearing the board (Andy's flat earth policy) really helped me re-imagine how to disguise the homebrew point control block. With a harbour scene having a boat repair yard or two makes sense. And they need timber. So my plan is to include a timber yard.

 

This is in part a nod to the Perkins & Viger Co Selected Timbers building on the MDVR at Pendon; one of my favourite layouts. But mainly it brings back memories of trips to the local timber merchant with my dad whenever he had a DIY project on the go.

 

Anyway, thanks for reading. Tomorrow I'll show the progress made on the scene at the back of the layout.

 

Andy

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Hi Andy 

 

I like the idea of the removable backscene - in position it will help frame and tidy up any photos in that direction whilst still allowing you to view and take photos the other way when it is removed. The backscene on Porthallow at the town end is removable. Looking at some of the photos I have taken , it is not always in position and even though the town is not the main focus of the shot it does make a difference when the backscene is there. 

 

One issue to think about is how to deal with the interface between the backscene and the mud on your low tide inlet. You could extend the dockside around the end of the layout and have more ware house buildings. That would be effective but could be too dominant. You could even extend the track around a very tight curve as an old horse worked tramway!

 

An alternative would be to have a barge or similar on the mud. That would help disguise the interface without being too imposing. 

 

Hope this helps 

 

Nick 

 

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1 hour ago, stivesnick said:

Hi Andy  

...

One issue to think about is how to deal with the interface between the backscene and the mud on your low tide inlet. ...

...An alternative would be to have a barge or similar on the mud. That would help disguise the interface without being too imposing. 

 

Hope this helps 

 

Nick 

 

 

Hi Nick, thanks for your thoughts.

I think the removable backscene is the way to go. 

I can't really extend the layout any further to box the harbour in, and my own experience of tidal creeks was an endless vista of mud. 

A few boats grounded on the mud would certainly help disguise the join between the mudflats and sky.  

 

I'm using the picture below as inspiration which was painted by a cousin; a respected local artist in South Essex. I bought this work of his  about 40 years ago to remind me of my times messing around in canoes and dinghies on this very spot. Relevant to the backscene I may add a thin strip of land in the distance.

 

Andy

 

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I promised an update on the scenery to the rear of the station.

So here goes.

The area is teardrop shaped measuring about 39" in length and about 5" at its widest. 

What I have in mind is a continuation of the semi-rural scene developed on the other side of the river. 

 

I started off by defining the area in 2D by adding profile formers as shown. I cut these to a height exceeding what I wanted to end up with, knowing I'd trim each one down - and probably need to iterate towards the result I was looking for.

 

20210918_110238.jpg.3c45f3177d8f78d23103c7a2eefb6276.jpg

 

The eagle eyed will notice I've sneaked in a cattle pen on the bay platform. Adding this will give the chance for more goods variety. 

A hedgerow-lined lane will snake down to the cattle pens. 

I checked to make sure I could get at least 2 or 3 cattle wagons lined up in front of the pens.

I'm not sure if a brake van would still be attached when doing that kind of shunting? If not then that'd give room for another wagon.

 

20210918_153508.jpg.8c4b579a3a8a49f45682211cd857100d.jpg

 

I won't bore you with how I made the hill. Suffice to say as I write this the PVA soaked J-clothes are drying. That'll take about 24 hours.

 

Cheers for now. Andy

 

20210919_100714.jpg.cff388edfe53fa67db763af2172fb6c4.jpg

Edited by AndyB
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I envisage the scenery to the front of the baseboard will be essentially flat. 

 

So another fun and easy job this afternoon was to level up the ground and cover up those wire in tubes with air drying clay. 

 

Not yet finished but hopefully you'll get where I'm going with this. Any buildings destined for this area can be sunk in a couple of millimetres by scribing out. 

 

20210919_162436_resized.jpg.879f5305150ec49a02df0f78d5095f5e.jpg 

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10 hours ago, stivesnick said:

..........

 

An alternative would be to have a barge or similar on the mud. That would help disguise the interface without being too imposing. 

 

Hope this helps 

 

Nick 

 

Or perhaps a dilapidated jetty or groyne, I’m thinking timber rather than stone. That would be lower keeping the more open feel. 

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