Weathering Powders don't adhere!

[Torper]

Some year ago at an exhibition I bought a pack of assorted weathering powders.  I had no need of them then, but thought that they would come in handy at a later date.  They were cheap, which is the major reason I bought them.  They bore no recognised brand name, but they look good and are nicely presented.

 

I'm now weathering much of my freight stock, and have been using Abteilung502 and Mig pigments that stick almost like paint.  I'm very impressed with them.  However, I then remembered the pack I'd bought all those years ago and, as it contains a variety of useful colours, I thought I'd give it a go.  Unfortunately, and unlike the branded products I've mentioned, these powders did not stick - when applied, they just fell off, leaving virtually no trace behind.  As things stand they're destined for the bin, but I wonder if anyone knows of any way of possibly re-energising them or putting them to use?  I have read about using a "medium" to apply powders, but I've no idea what a "medium" is in this context.

 

DT

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

https://www.migjimenez.com/en/pigments/166-ammo-pigment-fixer.html

 

Something like this should do the trick.

Depends what your el cheapo powder is ground from I would think.

 

Mike.

[Mick Bonwick]

I suspect that the problem with your older product is that the particles are too large to fall into the troughs of your matt surface. That's how Mig, Abteilung, AK interactive et al work - the small particles lodge in those troughs.

 

There is a fluid that can be used to get particles to stick to a surface, but I suggest it won't work for subtle weathering effects below 7mm scale. The fluid is generally known as pigment fixer.

 

You could also try isopropyl alcohol or white spirit as a fixer, but note that these do not fix the pigment permanently. It will rub off if touched, so is not really suitable for use on something that will be handled.

[ColinK]

I too have some weathering powders that don’t stick, they are MIG powders which I bought a very very long time ago, just when they came onto the market. They came with a bottle of fixer which doesn’t work very well.  So presumably the reason they don’t work is the pigment size as above. They even turned white recently after spraying the G scale wagon they were in with Dullcote. As a result I’ve never been happy to use weathering powders.

 

So it sounds like the best thing I could do is bin them and get some more recent ones?

[ELTEL]

Like most things in life you only get what you pay for.

 

Unfortunately from time to time some inferior products become available.

 

i have always used branded products and have been reasonably successful, I also tend to spray or brush flat or shiny surfaces with a Matt varnish, alternative being ladies hair spray.

 

So as you suggest bin them.

 

Terry  

[Torper]

When it comes to adhesion I've been particularly impressed by the Abteilung502 ones, more so perhaps than the Mig one I have.  And yes, all are being applied to matt surfaces.

 

I suppose I could use the cheapo ones to mix with paint and apply to freight stock roofs to give some texture.

 

DT

Edited June 7, 2020 by Torper

[Enterprisingwestern]

17 minutes ago, ColinK said:

I too have some weathering powders that don’t stick, they are MIG powders which I bought a very very long time ago, just when they came onto the market. They came with a bottle of fixer which doesn’t work very well.  So presumably the reason they don’t work is the pigment size as above. They even turned white recently after spraying the G scale wagon they were in with Dullcote. As a result I’ve never been happy to use weathering powders.

 

So it sounds like the best thing I could do is bin them and get some more recent ones?

 

The whitening is more of an issue of the Dullcote, it doesn't like some powders/fixative combinations.

The only thing to do is try different combinations of sealant with powders.

 

Mike.

[blueeighties]

Weathering powders won't adhere to an out of the box factory finish. They need a key. Matt varnish is good for this.

[brossard]

Just finished weathering 5 vehicles and had no problem with adhesion at all.  In fact I find that unless you are careful, you get too much powder on the model.  Best thing, I find, is to lightly dab the powder on the area you want to weather and then blow off the excess.  Use a soft brush to work it in.

 

As Lee mentions, use a matt varnish, mine is Testors Dullcote which I find works very well.

 

I have various weathering powders but the ones I use most are actually paint pigment from Fragonard.  These are black and umber.

 

7mm WR V36 van that I weathered yesterday:

 

 

Parkside kit with Slater's fittings.

 

John

Edited June 7, 2020 by brossard

[Nile]

8 hours ago, Torper said:

I have read about using a "medium" to apply powders, but I've no idea what a "medium" is in this context.

Humbrol DecalFix can be used as a medium.

Should in theory work with other powders.

I find the Humbrol powders work well on their own without any need for a medium.

[Torper]

I didn't see an awful lot of point in that video - why not just use paint rather than liquifying the powders and then painting them on?  However, I might try some Decalfix with my cheapo powders that won't stick just to see what effect I get.  There's so much trial and error in this game!

 

Brossard, that's very nice.  I have no problem with adhesion of my Abteilung502 pigments - as you say, it's all too easy to put too much on and I've probably over-weathered my first couple of attempts.  It's only the cheapos that won't stick, although the Mig one I have isn't as adhesive as the Abteilungs   I do wonder if there isn't a considerable difference between products sold as powders (which my cheapos were) and those sold as pigments, or are the two words now interchangeable?.

 

DT

[brossard]

I believe that with weathering, and probably other things too, the thing is to try and then figure out what works for you.  There is no one size fits all I think.  A very subjective art.

 

There are valuable lessons in failure.

 

John

[Paul H Vigor]

If it won't weather rolling stock it might weather other surfaces - buildings or landscaping features? Don't bin it coz one never knows!

[Enterprisingwestern]

13 hours ago, brossard said:

I believe that with weathering, and probably other things too, the thing is to try and then figure out what works for you.  There is no one size fits all I think.  A very subjective art.

 

There are valuable lessons in failure.

 

John

 

One learns far more by failing.

 

Mike.

[Paul H Vigor]

1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

One learns far more by failing.

 

Mike.

Brought to mind that great song by railway modeller Rod Stewart!

[Philou]

I've used artists chalk in the past as it was all I had and I used a cutter blade to scrape off an amount and then a soft brush to pick up and then dust the surface working into the crevices. I did need several passes to give the required depth of colour, the surfaces did vary from glossy to matt. As mentioned above, it will not hold if handled often so a waft of sealant may be needed (I haven't bothered as I don't handle the models often and you can always give another dusting later).

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[brossard]

Do you mean Pastels Philip?  Yes I have used those by scraping them onto an index card. 

 

My latest weathered wagons got a coat of matt varnish after powdering.

 

John

[Philou]

@brossard Artists pastels - yes, they're the ones. The make I have are 'Rembrandt', years old. Belonged to an old aunt that was into art. I've recycled them into my own form of 'art'. I forgot to say that where I have used some spray varnish (artists quality) was on some paper covered card buildings to seal the powders. There was a slight loss of depth of colour but nothing, to my mind, that adversely affected the finish:

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[brossard]

Nice job on the Scalescenes buildings.  I'm a big fan and doing them in 7mm.  In fact terraced houses are next on my list.

 

John

[Philou]

@brossard Thanks for that! I was quite pleased with the outcome of the buildings - they're basically 'as is' though I changed the arrangement from that suggested. I added lighting and in some I added an external light with a simple thin card reflector attached to an LED - I was happy with the result. They've all had Brassmasters' windows fitted . The only building that I 'modified' was to print the timber framing to the Tudor building onto thin card that I then cut out as a fret and overlaid it. (It's going to be the 'Wellington' to annoy my fellow French modellers ). To the terrace I added a dormer, Velux (bit overscale) and a detached garage - them's the nobs in the corner house, all la de dah.

 

Apologies to the OP for topic drift.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

[brossard]

Brassmasters windows are great and I used them for my 4mm builds.  There are no windows for 7mm but I did get some laser cut and I'm waiting for those to arrive.

 

I like the Wellington idea, one of my heroes.

 

John

[Barry O]

i have tried the MiG powders.. they seem to be either too bright or too dull. I can get all sorts of powders to stick after applying a general wash of a black ink/water mix first.If you add the powder while the ink is wet it will provide  texture apply it once the ink is dry just gives a subtle weathered finish

Problem is, subtle weathering is rather difficult to photograph..

 

 

16T vac fitted BR mineral

 

baz

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, Barry O said:

i have tried the MiG powders.. they seem to be either too bright or too dull. I can get all sorts of powders to stick after applying a general wash of a black ink/water mix first.If you add the powder while the ink is wet it will provide  texture apply it once the ink is dry just gives a subtle weathered finish

Problem is, subtle weathering is rather difficult to photograph..

 

 

16T vac fitted BR mineral

 

baz

 

 

Seems to be missing a fairly important piece of underframe gubbins baz?

 

Mike.

[Barry O]

Not all repairs complete. I need to check its all square but as I was weathering some other locos and wagons it made sense to do it .

Baz

[Barry O]

On 10/06/2020 at 21:03, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Seems to be missing a fairly important piece of underframe gubbins baz?

 

Mike.

do you mean the operating linkages..someone has already fitted a vac cyclinder....

 

Baz