New Hornby HST New Measurement Train

[TomScrut]

3 hours ago, GEOEng03 said:

Hi,

Does it have etched nameplates included?

Cheers

 

I don't think any Hornby stuff does does it?

[Guest Half-full]

2 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

No, I don't think any of the models are accurate TBH, but deliberate omissions that make the model viable vs what appears to be bad QC are different matters IMO.

 

I wonder if it will end up being redone like Bow Fell?

I do agree, this should have been picked up at QC stage, doesnt matter if its a £30 or £300 model

 

Does make you wonder how hard they look if any QC is done?  Not slating Hornby as it happens across the board,  is there a mindset that they need to get things to the market as quick as possible to keep the pitchfork wielders at bay?

[TomScrut]

1 minute ago, Half-full said:

quick as possible to keep the pitchfork wielders at bay?

 

Thinking about it I saw on Facebook earlier in the week these had been delayed. I wonder if there was a noticed QC issue, they decided to pull, then decided not to?

 

Could be that they thought they'd have their money for them and then release a statement saying they'll replace shells.

 

Gets money in quicker, means we rework our models, and also means we get to play sooner. I can't fault that logic really.

 

If they do that then I couldn't care less TBH. I'll happily run mine when they turn up knowing I will get a couple of shells.

 

If they don't announce something I'll be sending them back I think.

 

That is of course assuming mine are affected....

[GEOEng03]

16 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

I don't think any Hornby stuff does does it?

The Old Oak Common and VTEC sets did have them, but not other named versions such as Harry Patch. No rhyme or reason to how they're supplied

[TomScrut]

1 minute ago, GEOEng03 said:

The Old Oak Common and VTEC sets did have them, but not other named versions such as Harry Patch. No rhyme or reason to how they're supplied

 

Ah right I must not have stumbled across some of the few that do it would seem!

[big jim]

 

it’s still straighter than I could probably do with decals

[MGR Hooper!]

7 hours ago, bart2day said:

 

No excuse from Hornby not to be able to get a decal straight
 

Well technically it's not Hornby who are making the models, it's a factory in China. And it's not a decal, it's a tampo printed graphic. Hornby could've signed off a sample that was flawless. QC in China is never going to be the best. The first time Hornby will see these would be the production sample and the second time would be the whole production run. If most models were fine, the errors would never have been spotted.

 

We still don't know if it's an issue with the whole batch or an issue with just a few models.

 

Let's wait and see how other models turn out, if it's a problem with the entire batch, Hornby will sort it out just like they have done in the past with their Class 60 and IEP

[MGR Hooper!]

Retailers have now started uploading images to their websites, all seem to have the same issue. I'll send off an email to Hornby about the issue and let's see what they say.

Edited June 26, 2020 by MGR Hooper!

[bart2day]

1 hour ago, MGR Hooper! said:

Well technically it's not Hornby who are making the models, it's a factory in China. And it's not a decal, it's a tampo printed graphic. Hornby could've signed off a sample that was flawless. QC in China is never going to be the best. The first time Hornby will see these would be the production sample and the second time would be the whole production run. If most models were fine, the errors would never have been spotted.

 

We still don't know if it's an issue with the whole batch or an issue with just a few models.

 

Let's wait and see how other models turn out, if it's a problem with the entire batch, Hornby will sort it out just like they have done in the past with their Class 60 and IEP

 

Thats interesting. I can’t imagine they would have signed off on this. Does the production run delivery from China go via Hornby for inspection when they arrive or do they go direct to retailers?

 

I am not aware of the problems with the Class 60. Am I right in thinking the IEP issue was that it was derailing on curves and Hornby allowed customers to return their set for repair?

[MGR Hooper!]

1 hour ago, bart2day said:

 

Thats interesting. I can’t imagine they would have signed off on this. Does the production run delivery from China go via Hornby for inspection when they arrive or do they go direct to retailers?

 

I am not aware of the problems with the Class 60. Am I right in thinking the IEP issue was that it was derailing on curves and Hornby allowed customers to return their set for repair?

 

I'm sure they wouldn't have. It's obviously an error that occurred on the production line. QC is done in China, I suppose when the reach the UK, a few are checked out. After models are manufactured in China, they are split up. A major part of it comes to the UK to Hornby's Margate facility. A smaller part I think goes to Hong Kong where Hornby has a small presence there and from there it's distributed to Australia, New Zealand and parts of Asia (Malysia, Singapore, Thailand etc).

 

The Class 60 issue was with one of their 2019 releases R3743 "Bow Fell" in Railfreight Construction" livery, the logos though correct in the artwork was tampo-printed in the wrong place on the model in the factory in China. They have since come up with a solution, I'm not sure what it is though, must catch up.

Ypu're right about the IEP set.

[Hilux5972]

1 hour ago, bart2day said:

 

Thats interesting. I can’t imagine they would have signed off on this. Does the production run delivery from China go via Hornby for inspection when they arrive or do they go direct to retailers?

 

I am not aware of the problems with the Class 60. Am I right in thinking the IEP issue was that it was derailing on curves and Hornby allowed customers to return their set for repair?

On the recent class 60, the logo was placed too low or too high, i can’t remember which. They did a rerun of the bodies to correct.

[Roy Langridge]

2 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

QC in China is never going to be the best.

That is quite a statement, you got any evidence that the Chinese are unable to do the best QC?

 

They do what they are paid to do, if those placing contracts do so based on lowest price, it may be that they are getting what they paid for. 

 

Roy

Edited June 26, 2020 by Roy Langridge
Typo

[TomScrut]

2 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

They have since come up with a solution, I'm not sure what it is though, must catch up.

 

They corrected the body shells. They are now available with the logo in the right place.

[MGR Hooper!]

1 hour ago, Roy Langridge said:

That is quite a statement, you got any evidence that the Chinese are unable to do the best QC?

 

Roy

 

There's enough of instances all year round to prove that QC in China isn't the best you can get. Even companies who strive for perfection have had issues. No one saying they're not doing what they are paid to do, but there's still issues many companies face with QC at Chinese factories.

 

Besides which, our own kits are made in China, and we've had issues with that as well.

[Black 5 Bear]

Hornby QC from experience is extremely variable and tends to come down to which factory the item is produced at.

Some are excellent and others not so good, which is probably due to an inexperienced new workforce or difficulties in producing the model.

Out of 25 locos purchased in the last twelve months, I've personally returned 10 for a variety of issues.

Hornby customer services are particularly good at providing suitable remedy in the form of replacement or a refund.

 

Edited June 26, 2020 by Black 5 Bear

[Roy Langridge]

34 minutes ago, MGR Hooper! said:

 

There's enough of instances all year round to prove that QC in China isn't the best you can get. Even companies who strive for perfection have had issues. No one saying they're not doing what they are paid to do, but there's still issues many companies face with QC at Chinese factories.

 

Besides which, our own kits are made in China, and we've had issues with that as well.

 

But you made a sweeping statement about "China", I can assure you that there are plenty of companies in China that are able to offer QC as good as anywhere in the world. Why are we not seeing this for the products we want? I would suggest that it is more down to cost than ability.

 

Roy

[Walkes07]

For £260 and not to get the writing straight on both power cars is poor. The hst is a good model from Hornby it’s about time it came with 2 motors for the price your paying. Bachman are now doing it with the 158, 159 and recently the 117. Just hope they offer body replacements like they did for the Class 60. 

[TomScrut]

Unfortunately until people stop buying them at £260 they will stay like that.

 

BUT it is a completely different situation to the 158 IMO.

 

1. DCC, the 158 etc has the ability to connect both cars together electrically making life a lot easier. 2 powered HST cars is more awkward. You need two decoders, and to set them up for identical speed matching including setting the back emf accordingly. This is probably more than most could be bothered with for a 4 or 5 coach HST which is most of the market I'd say.

 

2. Weight, the HST is heavy enough a power car (plenty of space for a heavy chassis) to allow most trains (that people can be bothered with) to be dealt with by one loco. As far as I am aware prototypical length trains aren't a struggle either other than on unprototypical gradients.

 

3. Power, the 158 has small underfloor motors to allow a full interior, so power may be limited. The HST doesn't have this issue it can have a big motor with sizeable gearboxes to better make the most of the electricity that can be supplied to it.

[Walkes07]

Hornby could of design the hst like the Bachmann blue Pullman. All pin connections from the powercar , through the coaches to the another power car. 2 motors and 2 sound chips. 

[TomScrut]

25 minutes ago, Walkes07 said:

Hornby could of design the hst like the Bachmann blue Pullman. All pin connections from the powercar , through the coaches to the another power car. 2 motors and 2 sound chips. 

 

And how much would a 9 car HST cost given the cost of a 6 car Pullman set?

 

Putting it in context IIRC they were about £500 non sound I think.

 

By next week I will be 2 coaches short of 2 HST sets, NMT (5 car to be 7 car) and Inter7City (6 car). All told the Inter7City will have set me back approx £340. NMT £390. There is a decent chance I wouldn't have had either had they been £500+. The NMT is a novelty item to me that I think will at least hold enough value to make it worth me having. ScotRail I liked it but wasn't a must have purchase which is what a £500+ unit would have to be for me.

 

That's not saying the Pullman is expensive for what it is, but it's niche and probably would be the same people buying whatever the price as long as it reflected the quality of the model. The HST you will have plenty of people wanting more than one, some wanting 11 car, some like me buying because they like them enough to take a stab at £350 ish but no more. And LOTS of liveries 

Edited June 26, 2020 by TomScrut

[Roy Langridge]

2 hours ago, Walkes07 said:

Hornby could of design the hst like the Bachmann blue Pullman. All pin connections from the powercar , through the coaches to the another power car. 2 motors and 2 sound chips. 

Two motors not needed for 90% of users, so why bother with that?

 

Roy

[bart2day]

48 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

Two motors not needed for 90% of users, so why bother with that?

 

Roy

 

Perhaps not two motors but I like the idea of all pin connector so between the two power cars and through the coaches. Would mean you’d only need one decoder but could have two speakers (one in each power car). Interior lighting in the coaches would be a doddle that way too, although I’m sure the price would increase quite a bit for the coaches.

[TomScrut]

3 minutes ago, bart2day said:

 

Perhaps not two motors but I like the idea of all pin connector so between the two power cars and through the coaches. Would mean you’d only need one decoder but could have two speakers (one in each power car). Interior lighting in the coaches would be a doddle that way too, although I’m sure the price would increase quite a bit for the coaches.

 

The issue there is you then get into a whole other can of worms when it comes to length of said connectors. The purists with 1m+ radiuses will want them super close. Those of us who have 438mm curves either through circumstances, ignorance or not caring need them greater than that. Small DMUs probably get away with the gap more than a 11 car train.

 

I do like the idea but it creates another problem to solve

Edited June 26, 2020 by TomScrut

[Kaput]

Full on conductive couplers for HST sets seems like a solution without a problem.

Would be nice if both power cars were motorised considering the price but I think most DCC users would probably settle for them putting the damned cab lights on their own function output

 

[TomScrut]

58 minutes ago, Kaput said:

I think most DCC users would probably settle for them putting the damned cab lights on their own function output

 

Definitely. Make the most of the whopping amount of functions afforded by the 8 pin decoder technology!

Edited June 26, 2020 by TomScrut
Typo