Powercab upgrade

[Bob Hordern]

I have recently begun the process of changing over from DC to DCC. I now have a Power Cab for my 7mm layout which works fine.

I am at present running one engine in steam then recalling my other fitted loco when needed. More loco conversions will follow.

However I would like to have a second loco under control (I don't mean consisting) when I have a second operator.

The 5amp power booster sounds good but at present I don't need a lot of power as everything but my track bus happily runs on existing DC power supplies (lighting, points, Megapoints.....)

I was wondering about the next step regarding throttles? Is NCE the obvious choice or are there alternative but compatible options?

Bob

Edited June 7, 2020 by Bob Hordern

[Ray H]

It depends on how big the layout is and/or likely to grow to. There's also an element of what type of locos you're planning to run.

 

The double motor Heljan diesels probably want more than a PowerCab can reliably provide if you plan to run two or more at the same time with long trains behind them. Similarly, I believe some of the older locos with power hungry motors also fall into the same bracket.

 

We have run 4 light engines around a 40' x 20' O gauge layout using just a PowerCab and legacy wiring (i.e. no droppers) quite happily.

 

Its not mentioned so much these days - at least I haven't seen it mentioned - but look up any reference to Stall Current as this was (and probably should still be) what determines the power your DCC system should be able to happily provide.

 

I have a 9' long O gauge shunting plank that uses two small tank engines simultaneously and runs off a basic PowerCab. Both of these have sound decoders fitted - sound decoders can consume a bit more power than non-sound ones.

 

I'd certainly support the purchase of a PowerCab but I'd suggest you try to find people who have other systems and see if you actually prefer to us a different manufacturer's offerings. That is unless you have had experience of a PowerCab elsewhere and are likely to use them elsewhere in which case I'd suggest sticking with what you know to avoid confusion. That equally applies if you have and are likely to continue to have experience of other systems.

 

Hope this helps.

[Happy Hippo]

I  agree with Ray,

 

I use the Powercab starter set and can happily run two or three modern 0-6-0 or equivilent diesels using an additional slave cab control.

 

My intention, due to the size of my layout is to remove one motor and gears from my twin motored Heljan diesels, and I'm told that they too will run using the system I have in operation.

 

If I later find I need more power, then I can add the power booster to the system at a later date.

[Guest Half-full]

3 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

I  agree with Ray,

 

I use the Powercab starter set and can happily run two or three modern 0-6-0 or equivilent diesels using an additional slave cab control.

 

My intention, due to the size of my layout is to remove one motor and gears from my twin motored Heljan diesels, and I'm told that they too will run using the system I have in operation.

 

If I later find I need more power, then I can add the power booster to the system at a later date.

My friend layout runs HJ 7mm diesels with sound off a PowerCab, no additional booster, can run 3 loco's easily - however it is a diesel shed layout so no additional strain on the motors

[Ray H]

You can get a Cab06 which is cheaper than a second PowerCab/ProCab* throttle but be wary of the digital Cab06 because there's no stop on the rotating knob so you have to turn and turn and hope the loco stops in time! The analogue Cab06 has a inbuilt stop on the throttle knob.

 

The Cab06 can access a reasonable number of features of the PowerCab but, for example, the number of functions usable with the Cab06 is limited.

 

* the ProCab throttle looks and works virtually the same as a PowerCab, the only difference is that you can use the ProCab on its own whereas the ProCab can only be used as a slave of a PowerCab, the PowerPro or the SB5/SB10 boosters.

[Happy Hippo]

26 minutes ago, Half-full said:

My friend layout runs HJ 7mm diesels with sound off a PowerCab, no additional booster, can run 3 loco's easily - however it is a diesel shed layout so no additional strain on the motors

Thanks for that information.

 

Having been in conversation with David M (Jinty) he had removed a motor from a number of Heljan locos.  Haulage with one motor being about 16 mineral wagons.  Istr he took one to Ramchester at some stage.

 

My trains are nowhere near that long, so perhaps I need to do some experimenting before I start removing motors.

[Bob Hordern]

On 07/06/2020 at 12:55, Happy Hippo said:

I  agree with Ray,

 

I use the Powercab starter set and can happily run two or three modern 0-6-0 or equivilent diesels using an additional slave cab control.

 

Which brand/model of slave Cab are you using?

Edited June 8, 2020 by Bob Hordern

[Happy Hippo]

11 minutes ago, Bob Hordern said:

Which brand/model of slave Cab are you using?

Bob,  we have three Powercab starter sets in our group. which provide loads of back  when we take a layout to an exhibition.

 

The slave controller is currently an NCE Cab 06E.

 

I've got an NCE Cab 06P on order.

 

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Happy Hippo

[Bob Hordern]

Not sure I like the Cab 06 design and isn't it more limited than the powercab unit? Guess the price is good though.

Younger colleagues keep telling be JMRI with ipad is the way to go. Bob

[Pete the Elaner]

 

20 minutes ago, Bob Hordern said:

 

Younger colleagues keep telling be JMRI with ipad is the way to go. Bob

 

Engine driver is 1 of the phone/tablet apps for this. I remembered trying another but it always crashed when I tried to launch it.

 

If you have JMRI set up at home, then the chances are your home network already provides the other requirements, like the a wifi connection. If you don't then to set up JMRI requires a computer (PC, MAC or Linux will all work - I use a PC but have also run it on a Raspberry PI).

Fora portable layout, this is something extra to set up.

A PowerCab compatible wifi throttle module is now available, but this does not actually use JMRI.

 

Once you have JMRI & the included WiThrottle module running, you can connect to it from a phone or tablet.

 

I have this available at home & I feel it is very much a matter of personal preference. Scrolling through different locos under control is easier on the phone but I prefer the PowerCab for accessing higher numbered functions.

I cannot remember the last time I used the phone, tablet or chromebook to drive a train.

[Nigelcliffe]

2 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

3 hours ago, Bob Hordern said:

Not sure I like the Cab 06 design and isn't it more limited than the powercab unit? Guess the price is good though.

Younger colleagues keep telling be JMRI with ipad is the way to go. Bob

Engine driver is 1 of the phone/tablet apps for this. I remembered trying another but it always crashed when I tried to launch it.

 

 

Not for the iPad !    EngineDriver is the Android App.    WiThrottle is the Apple iPhone/iPad App.     There are a couple of other newer options appearing, but don't seem (to me) to offer any compelling reason to use them over the originals. 

(WiThrottle is also the server protocol on JMRI for all devices, confusing name because the same person was doing both the iPhone and early server stuff at the same time).

If buying a device to run JMRI for layout control, then I'd go down the Raspberry PI route.  The Pi3 is fast enough for the job, and does everything needed in a very small cheap device.  There is a trivially easy build of JMRI for the PI from Steve Todd - download it to a SD card on normal computer, put SD card into PI, apply power to start the PI and its "job done".

 

Back at the Cab06.  Its deliberately limited in being designed only to run locos, and throw turnouts/routes.   Not do programming, not do setup, etc.. Intended for someone who is just driving trains, and can't accidentally get into programming things.    Whether it (and the various variations NCE produce) suit needs is another matter. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cowley 47521]

I’m sorry for the very late bump up of this thread but I’m looking at buying an NCE cab06p to act as a slave unit to my NCE Powercab when I’ve got friends over and we want to run two trains on a single line with passing loops.

 

Would this be an easy enough set up for someone that’s a bit new to all this stuff?

Also, there doesn’t seem to be a function for the lights that I can see. What would you press for them?

 

Any advice much appreciated!

 

Nick

[Nigelcliffe]

Should be "plug it into the spare socket on the PowerCab master faceplate".  And that's it.   Just possibly you'll need to set the "cab address" the very first time of use (documented in the manual). 

 

The lights key is "0" (which is all your PowerCab lights key is pressing).   

 

Possibly downside is that the "P" has a potentiometer, so not good for taking over a train which is moving.  Fine if taking over a stationary train.  Also, I've found that the potentiometer doesn't like any rough handling and the end-stop can fail - so caution against letting a gorilla wind the knob on the front hard to stop. 

[Ron Ron Ron]

52 minutes ago, Cowley 47521 said:

......Also, there doesn’t seem to be a function for the lights that I can see. What would you press for them?

 

 

Links to the manuals and user guides here....

 

https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/200542619-Cab06

 

Set-up and an explanation of the buttons in the first download on that list.

 

The "0" button toggles headlights on and off.

Functions are accessed by pressing Shift (once, twice or three times) followed by Select.

 

 

 

 

.

[Gilbert]

A second power cab with a 4 wire cable is an option...I favour this as I frequently have "guest" operators on my layout at shows and the powercab is reasonably intuitive - at least for functions 1-9 .....and ......you have a back up  system...

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Gilbert

[Cowley 47521]

Very helpful replies everyone. Thanks very much.

 

7 minutes ago, Gilbert said:

A second power cab with a 4 wire cable is an option...I favour this as I frequently have "guest" operators on my layout at shows and the powercab is reasonably intuitive - at least for functions 1-9 you have a back up  system...

 

We did try this a couple of weeks ago with my friends controller and it did work quite well. I was hoping for the slightly cheaper option with the NCE cab06p though as I quite liked the look of its simplicity (and the price). But also because it’ll stay plugged into the railway which will give me the time to get to know how it all works.

 

1 hour ago, Nigelcliffe said:

Should be "plug it into the spare socket on the PowerCab master faceplate".  And that's it.   Just possibly you'll need to set the "cab address" the very first time of use (documented in the manual). 

 

The lights key is "0" (which is all your PowerCab lights key is pressing).   

 

Possibly downside is that the "P" has a potentiometer, so not good for taking over a train which is moving.  Fine if taking over a stationary train.  Also, I've found that the potentiometer doesn't like any rough handling and the end-stop can fail - so caution against letting a gorilla wind the knob on the front hard to stop. 

 

Again thanks. 
Am I right in thinking that the potentiometer version would be ready to go straight away then (with note taken of what you said about the end-stop)?

I read a couple of things about some of the versions needing a chip but if I’ve read it correctly these ones don’t?

[Nigelcliffe]

12 hours ago, Cowley 47521 said:

Again thanks. 
Am I right in thinking that the potentiometer version would be ready to go straight away then (with note taken of what you said about the end-stop)?

I read a couple of things about some of the versions needing a chip but if I’ve read it correctly these ones don’t?

 

Should "just work".     If you've got an antique PowerCab, then that might need upgrading (internal chip replacement).  

 

 

The knob problem isn't severe, but it is a small weakness, and a heavily used Cab06 (or gorilla operator) may find the end-stop  fails, so the knob goes round and round, with less predictability about what is "stop" and what is "max speed".   
Its pretty simple to modify the case with a small screw through the case pointing outwards, which is inside the space occupied by the knob, so invisible once done.    The screw provides a more solid mechanical stop for the knob rotation.   Just need to get the screw in the right place (its about 7-mins before o-clock if I've remembered it correctly, and I used either a M1.6 or M2 screw with a small nut on the outside).  

 

 

[Ray H]

There are (or were) two types of Cab06. One where the knob just continues turning (for either direction) and the one Nigel has referred to which has a travel limit stop. I find in much easier to match speeds with the one with the stop whereas you could be anywhere on the scale with a knob that has no stop.

[Cowley 47521]

Yes ok that all makes a lot of sense thanks everyone.

 I’m not sure how old my PowerCab is as I bought it off eBay a couple of years ago so maybe it is an older version. 

I’ll see if I work it out later.

[Ray H]

You should be able to tell its version number when it boots up. I believe the most recent version is 1.65 and think the previous version was around 1.18 but I can't be sure of the latter.

 

I'm not sure how to tell the version number of a Cab06 if you need to.

[Danemouth]

11 minutes ago, Ray H said:

You should be able to tell its version number when it boots up. I believe the most recent version is 1.65 and think the previous version was around 1.18 but I can't be sure of the latter.

 

I'm not sure how to tell the version number of a Cab06 if you need to.

IIRC the previous version was 1.28.

[Ray H]

15 hours ago, Danemouth said:

IIRC the previous version was 1.28.

 

Come to think of it, that sounds more like it.

[beejack]

latest firmware is now 1.65B